True Men Of God Get Persecuted And Attacked By The Devil!! And Even Are Martyred For The Gospel!!

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#21
without guile

exactly
((in re: John 1:43-51))

IMO what Jesus says here is a bit of a joke, actually - "a true Israelite" - Jacob, a.k.a. Israel, is known for his 'guiles' -- and in the verse immediately before this, Nathanael, hearing about Christ from Phillip, famously quips 'can any good thing come out of Nazareth?' -- that's guile.
but Nathanael believes immediately when Christ tells him He saw him under the fig tree. the Lord out-guiles this character immediately! this brief record of conversation has a lot of subtext! Christ reveals Himself as the ladder of Jacob's dream to this cynical man, who came to Him believing like a child :)
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#22
Being a true christian is far from a walk in the park. But on the contrary ur promised persection and far worse!! So why are most churches not preaching this? Are they scared dat they’ll loose customers if they do! Sure looks like it.


Matthew 10:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


John 7:7, KJV: "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil."

John 15:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Hebrews 10:34
took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Hebrews 11:36-38
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Is this not Gods word? Is this not in the bible?

Acts 7:59 stephen stoned 2 death

Acts 12:2 james killed by herod, Acts 12:4 peter was put in prison, Acts 14:19 paul stoned and left 4 dead, Matthew 14:9 john baptist beheaded

Peter was crucified upside down, Thomas was hacked 2 death in India, they tried 2 boil little john in a massive pot but he survived without a scratch on him. Not 2 mention there was a guy in Nigeria just recently who was beheaded by a militant group for not rejecting Christ!!
Have you truly counted the cost people coz the stakes are high and your going 2 have 2 give up a lot 2 be a true follower of Christ and I mean a lot.
Nonsense and again I say nonsense.
If you count persecution as the mark of a true believer then you better re-read your new testament.
We are to be known for our love for one another. Kindness toward the unkind, giving to those in need, forgiving for all offences.
Loving truth and righteousness.
Granted there are those that are persecuted for the gospels sake who have been called to further the kingdom.
But not all are called.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#23
Being a true christian is far from a walk in the park. But on the contrary ur promised persection and far worse!! So why are most churches not preaching this? Are they scared dat they’ll loose customers if they do! Sure looks like it.


Matthew 10:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


John 7:7, KJV: "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil."

John 15:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Hebrews 10:34
took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Hebrews 11:36-38
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Is this not Gods word? Is this not in the bible?

Acts 7:59 stephen stoned 2 death

Acts 12:2 james killed by herod, Acts 12:4 peter was put in prison, Acts 14:19 paul stoned and left 4 dead, Matthew 14:9 john baptist beheaded

Peter was crucified upside down, Thomas was hacked 2 death in India, they tried 2 boil little john in a massive pot but he survived without a scratch on him. Not 2 mention there was a guy in Nigeria just recently who was beheaded by a militant group for not rejecting Christ!!
Have you truly counted the cost people coz the stakes are high and your going 2 have 2 give up a lot 2 be a true follower of Christ and I mean a lot.
We should be careful to walk by faith .Pride is always there to snatch away the seed. Denominations like that of Catholicism there foundation (necromancy) is built on they perform openly as display to the world and the god of it. .

Martyr in the way. They use it to qualify one to become as patrons saint disembodied workers with familiar spirits sought after continually like a hall of fame. .

Like many words when new meaning is add it can be used to oppose the gospel . Martyr simply means "witness" with no other meaning added . We have the witness of Christ as the treasure of his power in us .But would never assume it is of us.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,489
13,797
113
#24
We should be careful to walk by faith .Pride is always there to snatch away the seed. Denominations like that of Catholicism there foundation (necromancy) is built on they perform openly as display to the world and the god of it. .

Martyr in the way. They use it to qualify one to become as patrons saint disembodied workers with familiar spirits sought after continually like a hall of fame. .

Like many words when new meaning is add it can be used to oppose the gospel . Martyr simply means "witness" with no other meaning added . We have the witness of Christ as the treasure of his power in us .But would never assume it is of us.
In Christian circles, the word "martyr" normally means "one who dies for their faith". Insisting that it simply means "'witness' with no other meaning added" is not helping. In fact, it is corrupting your understanding of the text.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#25
((in re: John 1:43-51))

IMO what Jesus says here is a bit of a joke, actually - "a true Israelite" - Jacob, a.k.a. Israel, is known for his 'guiles' -- and in the verse immediately before this, Nathanael, hearing about Christ from Phillip, famously quips 'can any good thing come out of Nazareth?' -- that's guile.
but Nathanael believes immediately when Christ tells him He saw him under the fig tree. the Lord out-guiles this character immediately! this brief record of conversation has a lot of subtext! Christ reveals Himself as the ladder of Jacob's dream to this cynical man, who came to Him believing like a child :)

yeah...that is totally YOUR perspective and you definitely were right in using IMO to express it

since Jesus said 'here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit', John 1:47, I'm going to take Him at His word. I don't see Jesus joking here; I see you, once again, attempting some sort of correction to what I posted

and then you continue in your personal interpretation and reach a wrong conclusion

Jesus had no reason to refer to Nathanial the way He did, UNLESS the words are to be taken as is, in context and meant as it seems they are meant...no reference to Jacob and it is obvious you have looked up what you posted but left out what you did not agree with

perhaps even the article I am providing below

I provide the following from a well known site and they do not indicate anything other than what Jesus said, is what He meant

Question: "Who was Nathanael in the Bible?"

Answer: Nathanael, whose name is spelled Nathaniel in popular modern usage, was one of the disciples called by Jesus (John 1:43). Nathanael was from Cana in Galilee (John 21:2) and was brought to Jesus by his friend, Philip, who also became one of Jesus’ disciples. Nathanael was one of the first to express belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God (John 1:49). His name means “God has given” in Hebrew. Interestingly, Nathanael is only mentioned in the Gospel of John; the other three gospels identify him as “Bartholomew.”

The call of Philip and Nathanael to discipleship is recorded in the first chapter of John, beginning in verse 43. Jesus went to Galilee and found Philip first, who then went to Nathanael, his friend. Philip told Nathanael that he had found “the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph” (John 1:45). Nathanael was skeptical and said, “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” (verse 46). This skepticism was understandable; at that time Nazareth was an obscure little hill town, remote and of no consequence. It was not sophisticated or glamorous, quite the opposite—it was not a place that anyone expected the Messiah to come from. Despite his skepticism, Nathanael followed Philip to meet Jesus. When the Lord saw Nathanael coming toward Him, He said, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit” (verse 47). Nathanael accepted this description as true and wondered how Jesus knew his character, having never met him before. Jesus explained: “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you” (verse 48). Nathanael then immediately recognized Jesus as the Christ, calling him the “Son of God” and the “king of Israel” (verse 49).

It has been speculated that there was something in Nathanael’s mind or actions under the fig tree that caused Jesus to refer to him as “an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.” This would help explain Nathanael’s amazement, as simply having seen Nathanael under the fig tree does not necessarily denote spiritual foresight or anything miraculous. It is obvious that Jesus’ mention of “no deceit” triggered amazement in Nathanael; it points to the fact that Jesus knew his thoughts.

Jesus responds to Nathanael ’s statement of faith with a prophecy: “You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that” (John 1:50). Then Jesus prophesies that Nathanael will see angels ascending and descending on the Son of Man (verse 51). This is a reference to the story of Jacob’s ladder in Genesis 28. But instead of ascending and descending on a ladder as they did in Jacob’s dream, the angels will ascend and descend on the Son of Man—meaning that Jesus Himself will be the final, efficacious connection between God and humanity (see Hebrews 9:12; 10:10).
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
i know it ought to be obvious, but it's often not, so i just want to point out that just because a person suffers, is persecuted, or is even just opposed, does not mean they are doing so for Christ.

it is a common mantra among trolls of Christian forums, when they are challenged, that 'this proves i'm right, because Christ's message was opposed also' -- and it's a false argument. Christ Himself opposed the teachings of would-be teachers; one needs stronger proof than the mere fact they are disagreed with.
my thoughts exactly. Double like!!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#27
yeah...that is totally YOUR perspective and you definitely were right in using IMO to express it

since Jesus said 'here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit', John 1:47, I'm going to take Him at His word. I don't see Jesus joking here; I see you, once again, attempting some sort of correction to what I posted

and then you continue in your personal interpretation and reach a wrong conclusion

Jesus had no reason to refer to Nathanial the way He did, UNLESS the words are to be taken as is, in context and meant as it seems they are meant...no reference to Jacob and it is obvious you have looked up what you posted but left out what you did not agree with

perhaps even the article I am providing below

I provide the following from a well known site and they do not indicate anything other than what Jesus said, is what He meant

Question: "Who was Nathanael in the Bible?"

Answer: Nathanael, whose name is spelled Nathaniel in popular modern usage, was one of the disciples called by Jesus (John 1:43). Nathanael was from Cana in Galilee (John 21:2) and was brought to Jesus by his friend, Philip, who also became one of Jesus’ disciples. Nathanael was one of the first to express belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God (John 1:49). His name means “God has given” in Hebrew. Interestingly, Nathanael is only mentioned in the Gospel of John; the other three gospels identify him as “Bartholomew.”

The call of Philip and Nathanael to discipleship is recorded in the first chapter of John, beginning in verse 43. Jesus went to Galilee and found Philip first, who then went to Nathanael, his friend. Philip told Nathanael that he had found “the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph” (John 1:45). Nathanael was skeptical and said, “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” (verse 46). This skepticism was understandable; at that time Nazareth was an obscure little hill town, remote and of no consequence. It was not sophisticated or glamorous, quite the opposite—it was not a place that anyone expected the Messiah to come from. Despite his skepticism, Nathanael followed Philip to meet Jesus. When the Lord saw Nathanael coming toward Him, He said, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit” (verse 47). Nathanael accepted this description as true and wondered how Jesus knew his character, having never met him before. Jesus explained: “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you” (verse 48). Nathanael then immediately recognized Jesus as the Christ, calling him the “Son of God” and the “king of Israel” (verse 49).

It has been speculated that there was something in Nathanael’s mind or actions under the fig tree that caused Jesus to refer to him as “an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.” This would help explain Nathanael’s amazement, as simply having seen Nathanael under the fig tree does not necessarily denote spiritual foresight or anything miraculous. It is obvious that Jesus’ mention of “no deceit” triggered amazement in Nathanael; it points to the fact that Jesus knew his thoughts.

Jesus responds to Nathanael ’s statement of faith with a prophecy: “You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that” (John 1:50). Then Jesus prophesies that Nathanael will see angels ascending and descending on the Son of Man (verse 51). This is a reference to the story of Jacob’s ladder in Genesis 28. But instead of ascending and descending on a ladder as they did in Jacob’s dream, the angels will ascend and descend on the Son of Man—meaning that Jesus Himself will be the final, efficacious connection between God and humanity (see Hebrews 9:12; 10:10).

And there came The Angel of the LORD, and sat under an oak which was in Ophrah, that pertained unto Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon threshed wheat by the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites. And The Angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour!
(Judges 6:11-12)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#28
Nathanael said to him,
“Can anything good come out of Nazareth?”
(John 1:46)
It is naught, it is naught!
saith the buyer
(Proverbs 20:14)
Philip said to him, “Come and see.”
(John 1:46)
“Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”
(John 1:49)
but when he is gone his way,
then he boasteth
(Proverbs 20:14)