Truth

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resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#1
Dec 19, 2009
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#1
What is truth? If you read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you will find much truth, because everything Jesus said was true.

Sometimes truth hurts. My understanding is that that is why Jesus was killed. His words hurt some people, so the people decided to kill him, thinking that would make them feel better.

Did it make them feel better? Can you actually destroy truth?

Even if you were to destroy all the Bibles in the world, those of us that have read the words of Jesus will not forget them, and we would pass them on to the next generations, so I don’t think truth can ever be destroyed. The Lord wouldn’t let that happen anyway, I don’t think.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:5 RSV
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What do you think?
 
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giantone

Guest
#2
#2
Without truth nothing could continue to exist, it would decay into total ca-yous. Jesus is the Truth and in Him all things consist, including the Devil. ( I think consist also means are held together)

Colossians 1:16 *For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 *And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

John 14:6 *Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
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Harley_Angel

Guest
#3
#3
I think even if you never picked a bible up if nobody ever said the words Jesus Christ died for you, you will still know in your very nature it is wrong to kill, to steal, to disrespect your parents, to curse "higher powers" or use their names in vain, to generally bring harm to another being. The Truth lives inside of us, no matter where you are from or what you grew up with.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#4
Dec 22, 2009
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Harley_Angel said:
I think even if you never picked a bible up if nobody ever said the words Jesus Christ died for you, you will still know in your very nature it is wrong to kill, to steal, to disrespect your parents, to curse "higher powers" or use their names in vain, to generally bring harm to another being. The Truth lives inside of us, no matter where you are from or what you grew up with.
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Jesus said that He is the truth. He was even more blunt in saying that no man took His life, but He gave it willingly. If He did not want to go to the cross, if He did not want to die, He would not have. He did it for us. So truth..........God loves us, through Jesus, because God is love.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#5
Dec 19, 2009
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Harley_Angel said:
I think even if you never picked a bible up if nobody ever said the words Jesus Christ died for you, you will still know in your very nature it is wrong to kill, to steal, to disrespect your parents, to curse "higher powers" or use their names in vain, to generally bring harm to another being. The Truth lives inside of us, no matter where you are from or what you grew up with.
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And, of course, the Lord is always with each one of us and is always teaching us.
 
Nuhen

Nuhen

Banned
#6
Jan 22, 2010
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resurrection33 said:
My understanding is that that is why Jesus was killed. His words hurt some people, so the people decided to kill him, thinking that would make them feel better.
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He was killed because that was what G-d had ordained to happen. Yeshua had to die for the forgiveness of sins, to be the perfect, spotless lamb for the permanent sacrifice. It wasn't because he said things hard to stomach.
 
Nuhen

Nuhen

Banned
#7
Jan 22, 2010
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VW said:
If He did not want to go to the cross, if He did not want to die, He would not have.
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Actually, Yeshua didn't want to die. He went into the Garden and prayed for G-d to take the cup of his torment and death from his hands, but was in ultimate submission to the will of G-d and said, "Not my will, but Yours be done."

He died because it was the will of G-d his Father that he die as the sacrifice for sins, and it was his ultimate desire to do the will of his Father.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#8
Dec 22, 2009
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Nuhen said:
Actually, Yeshua didn't want to die. He went into the Garden and prayed for G-d to take the cup of his torment and death from his hands, but was in ultimate submission to the will of G-d and said, "Not my will, but Yours be done."

He died because it was the will of G-d his Father that he die as the sacrifice for sins, and it was his ultimate desire to do the will of his Father.
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Because He wanted to. Jesus was very specific that no one took His life away, but that He laid it down on His own initiative. And even more, He said that this was why the Father loves Him. No one took His live away from Him...........but us.
 
Nuhen

Nuhen

Banned
#9
Jan 22, 2010
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#9
VW said:
Because He wanted to. Jesus was very specific that no one took His life away, but that He laid it down on His own initiative. And even more, He said that this was why the Father loves Him. No one took His live away from Him...........but us.
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"No one took his life away" and "no one took his life away but us" are contradictory statements. So which is it, nobody? Or nobody but us?

Anyway, giving something up willingly and wanting to do it are very different. Yes, Yeshua gave up his life willingly (meaning he didn't have to be forced), but he was also clear in the Garden that he did NOT want to die.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#10
Dec 19, 2009
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#10
Nuhen said:
He was killed because that was what G-d had ordained to happen. Yeshua had to die for the forgiveness of sins, to be the perfect, spotless lamb for the permanent sacrifice. It wasn't because he said things hard to stomach.
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What motivated people to kill Jesus? I would say it was their jealousy of him. God knew that this would happen—at the same time, he knew that Jesus needed to be crucified to save us.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#11
Dec 22, 2009
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Nuhen said:
"No one took his life away" and "no one took his life away but us" are contradictory statements. So which is it, nobody? Or nobody but us?

Anyway, giving something up willingly and wanting to do it are very different. Yes, Yeshua gave up his life willingly (meaning he didn't have to be forced), but he was also clear in the Garden that he did NOT want to die.
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No, He did not want to take the cup of our sin and the Father's wrath for our sin.

Yes, you and I put Him on the cross, and we are responsible. This is the hardest lesson I have learned at His feet. And it makes me full of sorrow every time I think of it. It is why the cross is so deep an experience for me. He took my place on the cross, for I deserved it, and everything else besides. And He took that for me also, because He loves me. Because He loves me. And so, I love Him.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#12
Dec 22, 2009
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Was I worthy of His love, of His sacrifice? Absolutely not. Not even close. The only worth I have is as what He makes of me by His power in the new birth, by His working of His Spirit. Not any other worth at all. It is all dross, and worse. And in this state, as He knew me to be, He went willingly to the cross for me. If I had been different, then He would not have had to sacrifice Himself for me. For any of us. It does not always make sense, but that is love.
 
Nuhen

Nuhen

Banned
#13
Jan 22, 2010
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#13
resurrection33 said:
What motivated people to kill Jesus? I would say it was their jealousy of him. God knew that this would happen—at the same time, he knew that Jesus needed to be crucified to save us.
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Personally, I don't think they needed motivation as G-d's will WILL be done in any case, whether we want it to or not. But the fact that Yeshua went against the Pharisees and Sadducees made them (the Ps and Ss) hate him.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#14
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#14
Nuhen said:
Personally, I don't think they needed motivation as G-d's will WILL be done in any case, whether we want it to or not. But the fact that Yeshua went against the Pharisees and Sadducees made them (the Ps and Ss) hate him.
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You still do not understand, they did not kill Jesus, we did. If I am foolish and fall off a cliff, and my rescuer while trying to save me falls to his death, I am at fault, because I was the fool. Well, we are the sinners, and Jesus is our rescuer, we needed Him, and He willingly gave Himself up for us.

Until we understand that no one killed Him, that He gave up His life on His own initiative, we do not understand His love nor the Father's love for Him and for us.
 
Nuhen

Nuhen

Banned
#15
Jan 22, 2010
1,022
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#15
VW said:
You still do not understand, they did not kill Jesus, we did. If I am foolish and fall off a cliff, and my rescuer while trying to save me falls to his death, I am at fault, because I was the fool. Well, we are the sinners, and Jesus is our rescuer, we needed Him, and He willingly gave Himself up for us.

Until we understand that no one killed Him, that He gave up His life on His own initiative, we do not understand His love nor the Father's love for Him and for us.
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While you're right, you're also wrong. We all killed Yeshua because of our sin, every person who has ever lived and will ever live, but the Romans and the Jewish leaders of the time definitely tortured him, put him on the cross, and ultimately killed him.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#16
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#16
resurrection33 said:
What is truth? If you read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you will find much truth, because everything Jesus said was true.

Sometimes truth hurts. My understanding is that that is why Jesus was killed. His words hurt some people, so the people decided to kill him, thinking that would make them feel better.

Did it make them feel better? Can you actually destroy truth?

Even if you were to destroy all the Bibles in the world, those of us that have read the words of Jesus will not forget them, and we would pass them on to the next generations, so I don’t think truth can ever be destroyed. The Lord wouldn’t let that happen anyway, I don’t think.


What do you think?
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John 8: 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

First of all, this statement by Jesus says that Truth exists. And because it is God's Truth, it is eternal and cannot be destroyed. He further states that the Truth can set you free.

The Bible is the most quoted book in the history of the world. If all Bibles were destroyed, it would be possible to recreate every word just using quotes from other books in existence. Of course, the Bible was written by inspired writers so that we could know the Truth. It IS possible to understand Truth from the written word, with the help of the Holy Spirit. In order to do this, we must:

1. be Biblically literate, i.e. study the Bible and know it
2. approach our Bible reading prayerfully, asking God for guidance
3. approach our reading with an open mind, leaving preconceived ideas behind
4. use proper hermeneutics

There are those who think that it is impossible to understand the Bible and for there to be a unity of understanding. This is WRONG.

To imply such is to say one of the following:

a. God is incapable of giving us a Bible that we can understand
b. God is capricious and wants to confuse us

Of course the above possibilities are ridiculous.

God has given us a Bible that we can understand and do so with unity. This does not occur because of:

1. ignorance
2. prejudice
3. improper hermeneutics

Just because unity of understanding doesn't exist, is not a proof that it cannot exist. It doesn't exist because man is determined to interpret the Bible the way he wants to, rather than the the way it was intended by the author. The author of any written word is the final authority on it's meaning.

Truth IS eternal, and the Truth will set you free!!
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#17
Feb 24, 2009
3,040
1,027
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New Zealand
#17
truth-

some people say 'what matters is believing in something as long as you believe in something'

I say.. it isn't the believing that matters the most as much as the object of the belief.

I could believe that Jesus was a gorilla from Africa ..:) but that wouldn't be true. If the object of the belief is not real.. there is no point to belief.

The Hindus have their story of a bunch of people going up to an elephant.. all blindfolded. Each touches part of the elephant and says what they think they are feeling. Each has a different saying.. 'this is a goat' 'this is a horse' 'this is a giraffe' etc

Hinduism would say they are all right.

Christianity says it doesn't matter what they think it is .. it is an ELEPHANT :)

objectively true
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#18
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
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#18
resurrection33 said:
What motivated people to kill Jesus? I would say it was their jealousy of him. God knew that this would happen—at the same time, he knew that Jesus needed to be crucified to save us.
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Something Ive wondered about from time to time about Jesus being crucified for us.
Was it more important for God Our Father to have the sacrifice of Jesus so that we are saved.
Or, was it more about us having to have Jesus sacrificed in order for us to believe that we are saved?
Just a thought.
Im just very greatful that God Our Father sent Our Lord Jesus to be sacrificed for our salvation.
God bless, pickles
 
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Harley_Angel

Guest
#19
#19
That's a good thought, Pickles. God is all powerful and he could have just said, hey, you guys are saved, but I doubt any of us would believe it. Instead He said, LOOK HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU! I will SACRIFICE my SON, my ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, for you, for all of you, don't you believe me now???? I think seeing Jesus tortured, humilitated, shamed, and killed stuck in the minds of so many people as physical proof of God's love for us and really helped seat the idea that they are saved deep in their hearts.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#20
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#20
Harley_Angel said:
That's a good thought, Pickles. God is all powerful and he could have just said, hey, you guys are saved, but I doubt any of us would believe it. Instead He said, LOOK HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU! I will SACRIFICE my SON, my ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, for you, for all of you, don't you believe me now???? I think seeing Jesus tortured, humilitated, shamed, and killed stuck in the minds of so many people as physical proof of God's love for us and really helped seat the idea that they are saved deep in their hearts.
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Got to disagree with you on this one. Our God is a God of justice. He cannot deny His own character or He would cease to be God. His justice demanded that a sacrifice be made for sin. God did not cause Jesus to be tortured and humiliated on the cross. WE did. If God allowed His laws and statutes to be violated, without just recompense, then how would He be a just God?
 
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