Two Resurrections, Two Deaths, Three Lives.

[ewq1938]

Rev 20 tells us very clearly that the beast, FP and Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and "be tormented for ever and ever".

Actually that is said only about satan and that can be a figure of speech because there are other similar statements in the bible about fire that actually isn't eternal.

What follows is the GWT judgment, where all unbelievers will also be cast into the lake of fire.

There is no reason to think that unbelievers won't undergo the same as the beast, FP (both human beings) and fallen angels.

In the OT there were three people put in fire and they didn't even feel pain at all. God can control what fire can and can't do so being placed in a place of fire does not equal the same experience.

Mat_23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Mar_12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

Luk_20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

Here some people will receive a greater (worse) damnation than others so there are levels of punishment.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 20:10
"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

1,000 Years after the beast and false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, they are still there.......

That doesn't prove they are alive or even exist. God is merely telling us the beast and False Prophet were placed in the lake of fire long before satan goes there. If I threw a book in a lake of fire and someone later asked me where the book is, I would say, "It's in the lake of fire." I'm not addressing the state of the book.

 

[DavidTree]

That doesn't prove they are alive or even exist. God is merely telling us the beast and False Prophet were placed in the lake of fire long before satan goes there. If I threw a book in a lake of fire and someone later asked me where the book is, I would say, "It's in the lake of fire." I'm not addressing the state of the book.

Hi Brother, how are you these days?

AFTER 1,000 Years we see that Rev 20:10 uses present tense describing the occupants (Beast and False Prophet) and their present location = LoF.

IMHO - God is the only one who determines the longevity of the Lake of Fire and those who enter into it.

It does not matter to me if they 'burn out of existence or not' just as long I do not end up there by His Grace, Love and Mercy.

Think of it this way, does it really have bearing on our faith and walk with Him as per say the clear error of pre-trib?

Annialism, certainly is something I am not worried about being wrong on.

Our love and fellowship for each other and the Body is Greater then the doctrine of annialism.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rev 20 tells us very clearly that the beast, FP and Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and "be tormented for ever and ever".

Actually that is said only about satan and that can be a figure of speech because there are other similar statements in the bible about fire that actually isn't eternal.

OK, let's to the Berean "shuffle".

New Living Translation
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Berean Literal Bible
And the devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet also are; and they will be tormented day and night to the ages of the ages.
King James Bible
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
New American Standard Bible
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Amplified Bible
And the devil who had deceived them was hurled into the lake of fire and burning brimstone (sulfur), where the beast (Antichrist) and false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever.
Christian Standard Bible
The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
American Standard Version
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And their Seducer, The Devil, was cast into The Lake of Fire and Brimstone where The Beast and The False Prophet are, and they shall be tormented day and night for the eternity of eternities.
Contemporary English Version
Then the devil who fooled them will be thrown into the lake of fire and burning sulfur. He will be there with the beast and the false prophet, and they will be in pain day and night forever and ever.
Literal Standard Version
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are], and they will be tormented day and night through the ages of the ages.
NET Bible
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever.
New Heart English Bible
The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
World English Bible
The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Young's Literal Translation
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

These are 15 of 28 translations on biblehub.com. I know the other have "were" as in past tense. However, the interlinear on biblehub.com has this verb: where [are]. So I'm not making up anything. Translators disagree on things at times, and this is one of them.

There is no reason to believe that God destroys souls. That is an idea that comes from atheists. They reject any notion of life after death.

In the OT there were three people put in fire and they didn't even feel pain at all. God can control what fire can and can't do so being placed in a place of fire does not equal the same experience.

This isn't relevant.

Mat_23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Mar_12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

Luk_20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

Here some people will receive a greater (worse) damnation than others so there are levels of punishment.

Jesus was teaching that the lake of fire will have degrees of tolerance.

Matt 10:15 - Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Matt 11:2.24
22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

iow, unbelievers will be judged "according to the books of deeds" per Rev 20 and their place in the lake of fire will be proportional to their works.

That means it will be less bearable for those who are more evil and more bearable for those who are less evil in eternity in the lake of fire.

 

[ewq1938]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rev 20 tells us very clearly that the beast, FP and Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and "be tormented for ever and ever".

It's still a grammatical fact that only satan is said to "be tormented for ever and ever".

These are 15 of 28 translations on biblehub.com. I know the other have "were" as in past tense. However, the interlinear on biblehub.com has this verb: where [are]. So I'm not making up anything. Translators disagree on things at times, and this is one of them.

I'm saying you are misunderstanding verse. It says nothing about their condition in the lake of fire.

There is no reason to believe that God destroys souls. That is an idea that comes from atheists. They reject any notion of life after death.

Scripture says God will destroy souls, so this isn't debatable.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Atheists will also deny there is torment in Hades. All Annihilationists believe in Hades and the torment there. It's just not forever.

 

[glen55]

Revelation 20:10
"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

1,000 Years after the beast and false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, they are still there.......

Well its thoughts that are cleaned not physical beast and devils. Paul could have killed with thought he needed to die everyday, he knew that flesh and blood was sinning by thoughts that hast to be overcome by spirit not flesh and blood we all judge others easy, to not judge is a mental foolness to judge, Romans 2:28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Plus how could Paul judge people when he knew what was by law of Moses? Romans 7: 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me;

After we pass milk we realize Christ seed is in all Men that fails till we experience inside us, then flesh and blood has no power over God awaken from Saul to Paul, he didn't wake by dead letters which was OT Saul thought studied it as secular history and was blind to the damage of thought and no man can see it, spirit knows how you think.

Temple in us is misunderstand what goes on from how we think spirit is obeying thoughts and will kill it by temptation kill grace but never best it and it never is dead. We in flesh and blood stay blind till Christ is born in US. Never seen what God does to evil in us, Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Even in milk believers like Saul.

Matt 23: 13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Thought's not heart in all man who are blind till outside is overcome by SPIRIT..

What is revelation about from the temple, Gal 1:11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
IN US! Not outside where Saul looked and was taught by Men teaching dead letters, they only come alive after experiencing in yourself David will show you what you go through with seed of spiritual son we all are..

 

[ewq1938]

Paul could have killed with thought he needed to die everyday

Paul didn't die everyday. That is based on a very bad translation. What Paul said is he faced death daily as in his life was always in danger.


(ALT) [I affirm] by my boasting [or, pride] in you* which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily [or, every day I am in danger of death].


(CEV) If the dead are not going to be raised to life, what will people do who are being baptized for them? Why are they being baptized for those dead people? And why do we always risk our lives and face death every day? The pride that I have in you because of Christ Jesus our Lord is what makes me say this. What do you think I gained by fighting wild animals in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised to life, "Let's eat and drink. Tomorrow we die."


(GNB) My friends, I face death every day! The pride I have in you, in our life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord, makes me declare this.


(GW) Brothers and sisters, I swear to you on my pride in you which Christ Jesus our Lord has given me: I face death every day.


(ISV) I face death every day! That is as certain, brothers, as it is that I am proud of you in Christ Jesus our Lord.


(MSG) I look death in the face practically every day I live. Do you think I'd do this if I wasn't convinced of your resurrection and mine as guaranteed by the resurrected Messiah Jesus?


(NLT) If the dead will not be raised, then what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again? And why should we ourselves be continually risking our lives, facing death hour by hour? For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what the Lord Jesus Christ has done in you. And what value was there in fighting wild beasts-those men of Ephesus*-if there will be no resurrection from the dead? If there is no resurrection, "Let's feast and get drunk, for tomorrow we die!"


What do scholars say on this verse?


Barnes-

I die daily - compare Rom_8:36. I endure so many sufferings and persecutions, that it may be said to be a daily dying. I am constantly in danger of my life; and my sufferings each day are equal to the pains of death. Probably Paul here referred particularly to the perils and trials which he then endured at Ephesus; and his object was to impress their minds with the firmness of his belief in the certainty of the resurrection, on account of which he suffered so much, and to show them that all their hopes rested also on this doctrine.

Clarke-

I die daily - A form of speech for, I am continually exposed to death. The following passages will illustrate this. So Philo, p. 990. Flaccus, who was in continual fear of death, says: ?a?’ e??ast?? ??µe?a?, µa???? de ???a?, p??ap????s??, p?????? ?a?at??? ??p?µe??? a??’ e???? t?? te?e?ta???? “Every day, rather every hour, I anticipate death; enduring many deaths before that last one comes.” So Libanius, speaking of his own miseries and those of the people of Antioch, Epist. 1320, page 615, says: et? ???te? te????aµe?? “Though living, we are dead.” Livy has a similar form of expression to signify continual danger, xxix. 17: Quotidie capitur urbs nostra, quotidie diripitur. “Daily is our city taken, daily is it pillaged.”

Gill-

I die daily; which is to be understood, not in a spiritual sense of dying unto sin;

he instances in himself in particular, who was one that was in jeopardy or danger of his life every hour

death was always working in him, he expected it every day, and was ready for it; he did not count his life dear unto himself, but was very willing to lay it down for the sake of Christ and his Gospel; which he would never have done, if he had not good reason to believe the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead.

VWS-

I die daily
I am in constant peril of my life. Compare 2Co_4:11; 2Co_11:23; Rom_8:36. So Clytaemnestra: “I have no rest by night, nor can I snatch from the day a sweet moment of repose to enfold me; but Time, ever standing over me, was as a jailer who conducted me to death” (Sophocles, “Electra,” 780, 781). And Philo: “And each day, nay, each hour, I die beforehand, enduring many deaths instead of one, the last.”

Wesley-

1Co 15:31 - I protest by your rejoicing, which I have - Which love makes my own. I die daily - I am daily in the very jaws of death. Beside that I live, as it were, in a daily martyrdom.

Henry-

He was in continual danger of death, and carried his life, as we say, in his hand. And why should he thus expose himself, if he had no hopes after life? To live in daily view and expectation of death, and yet have no prospect beyond it, must be very heartless and uncomfortable, and his case, upon this account, a very melancholy one. He had need be very well assured of the resurrection of the dead, or he was guilty of extreme weakness, in hazarding all that was dear to him in this world, and his life into the bargain.

JFB-

I die daily--This ought to stand first in the sentence, as it is so put prominently forward in the Greek. I am day by day in sight of death, exposed to it, and expecting it (2Co_4:11-12; 2Co_1:8-9; 2Co_11:23).

Its pretty simple. Paul was merely saying he faced death on a daily basis and he wouldn't be doing that if he didn't truly believe that he would be resurrected after dying. If there was no afterlife, then there would be no reason to risk his life so often or at all.


I Corinthians 15:32 "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."


Paul is referring to Isaiah


Isaiah 22:13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.


Paul is telling us that if He didn't believe that Christ was raised from the dead his purpose in life would no more gratifying than killing these animals for the day to day existence man lives.


Christ did die and He is resurrected, and there is a purpose for facing death in preaching the gospel. It is worth it all.


While the concept of symbolically "dying" to your own personal desires and sins can be a valid concept (if properly understood and properly taught) it is not what Paul was talking about in these verses.

 

[DavidTree]

Well its thoughts that are cleaned not physical beast and devils. Paul could have killed with thought he needed to die everyday, he knew that flesh and blood was sinning by thoughts that hast to be overcome by spirit not flesh and blood we all judge others easy, to not judge is a mental foolness to judge, Romans 2:28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Plus how could Paul judge people when he knew what was by law of Moses? Romans 7: 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me;

After we pass milk we realize Christ seed is in all Men that fails till we experience inside us, then flesh and blood has no power over God awaken from Saul to Paul, he didn't wake by dead letters which was OT Saul thought studied it as secular history and was blind to the damage of thought and no man can see it, spirit knows how you think.

Temple in us is misunderstand what goes on from how we think spirit is obeying thoughts and will kill it by temptation kill grace but never best it and it never is dead. We in flesh and blood stay blind till Christ is born in US. Never seen what God does to evil in us, Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Even in milk believers like Saul.

Matt 23: 13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Thought's not heart in all man who are blind till outside is overcome by SPIRIT..

What is revelation about from the temple, Gal 1:11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
IN US! Not outside where Saul looked and was taught by Men teaching dead letters, they only come alive after experiencing in yourself David will show you what you go through with seed of spiritual son we all are..

I think I understand you, but your sentence structure is a little jumbled up and hard for me to ascertain.

YES, the Fire of the Holy Spirit is to consume the old way of thinking that is corrupt and of the flesh.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans ch8

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Can you please provide the scripture(s) that states "being reborn is both physical and spiritual"
"It is one act with two changes. .....They both happen instantaneously."

Thank you

"It is one act with two changes. .....They both happen instantaneously."

This is what I been saying.


2 Thessalonians 2:13
English Standard Version
13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Physical
Sanctification:

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 38 hagiasmós (a masculine noun derived from 40 /hágios, "holy") – sanctification (the process of advancing in holiness); use of the believer being progressively transformed by the Lord into His likeness (similarity of nature). See 40 /hagios ("holy").

Spiritual help and guidance by the Spirit:

2 Corinthians 3:17 ESV
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

John 14:26 ESV
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

 

[DavidTree]

This is what I been saying.


2 Thessalonians 2:13
English Standard Version
13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Physical
Sanctification:

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 38 hagiasmós (a masculine noun derived from 40 /hágios, "holy") – sanctification (the process of advancing in holiness); use of the believer being progressively transformed by the Lord into His likeness (similarity of nature). See 40 /hagios ("holy").

Spiritual help and guidance by the Spirit:

2 Corinthians 3:17 ESV
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

John 14:26 ESV
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

AMEN - Thank You Brother for these scriptures are evidence of such I am sharing with you.

"We are the firstfruits to be saved" = future tense = His Second Coming and the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ.

thru sanctification by the Spirit and the truth = Our first resurrection is the New Birth = in our spirits

Dwell on the scriptures you are sharing and the Truth = NO Physical First Fruit Resurrection until His Second Coming

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Cor ch15

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rev 20 tells us very clearly that the beast, FP and Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and "be tormented for ever and ever".

It's still a grammatical fact that only satan is said to "be tormented for ever and ever".

No it isn't. I just showed you the majority of English translations write Rev 20:10 as the beast and FP ARE in the lake of fire.

I'm saying you are misunderstanding verse. It says nothing about their condition in the lake of fire.

It says EVERYTHING about their condition in the lake of fire.

Scripture says God will destroy souls, so this isn't debatable.

No it doesn't. It says that God IS ABLE to. Don't you understand the difference?

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Please quote the verse correctly. This verse doesn't say that God HAS or WILL destroy any souls.

Atheists will also deny there is torment in Hades. All Annihilationists believe in Hades and the torment there. It's just not forever.

So then, just how long will there be torment there, if it is not forever? What verse can you cite/quote?

 

[ewq1938]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rev 20 tells us very clearly that the beast, FP and Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and "be tormented for ever and ever".

It doesn't say that.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The tormented day and night is directed at satan, not beast or

No it isn't. I just showed you the majority of English translations write Rev 20:10 as the beast and FP ARE in the lake of fire.

The word "are" is not in the manuscripts.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Any word that is italicized is an added word. Second, I know they are there at that timeframe but that doesn't mean they are alive. It is the second death for a reason. It's not the second life!

It says EVERYTHING about their condition in the lake of fire.

No it doesn't.

No it doesn't. It says that God IS ABLE to. Don't you understand the difference?

He is able and will do it. Souls can and will be destroyed.

Please quote the verse correctly. This verse doesn't say that God HAS or WILL destroy any souls.

It's correctly quoted. It does prove God will destroys souls.

So then, just how long will there be torment there, if it is not forever? What verse can you cite/quote?

Everyone knows Hades is a temporary place of torment.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rev 20 tells us very clearly that the beast, FP and Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and "be tormented for ever and ever".

It doesn't say that.

Yes, it does, and your quote below proves it.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The tormented day and night is directed at satan, not beast or

Let's think about what "where the beast and the false prophet ARE" means.

The word "are" is not in the manuscripts.

Greek is a very elliptical language: showing ellipsis; having a word or words omitted.

The majority of English translations on biblehub.com have "are" instead of "were".

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Any word that is italicized is an added word. Second, I know they are there at that timeframe but that doesn't mean they are alive. It is the second death for a reason. It's not the second life!

The "second death" refers to the fact that the resurrection of unbelievers for the GWT judgment will DIE PHYSICALLY again.

He is able and will do it. Souls can and will be destroyed.

Please remove your opinion and quote a verse that says He either has already or will. All you've got is innuendo and presumption.

It's correctly quoted. It does prove God will destroys souls.

That's just your innuendo and presumption talking. You need a verse that says He does destroy souls.

Everyone knows Hades is a temporary place of torment.

Yep. It will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The second because the resurrected physical body will die again.

Obviously.

 

[ewq1938]

Please remove your opinion and quote a verse that says He either has already or will. All you've got is innuendo and presumption.

Nope. The scripture says God shall destroy souls:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hell here is the lake of fire. The souls of those cast into it shall be destroyed.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


That's when it happens.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Please remove your opinion and quote a verse that says He either has already or will. All you've got is innuendo and presumption.

Nope. The scripture says God shall destroy souls:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hell here is the lake of fire. The souls of those cast into it shall be destroyed.

First, the Greek word translated "hell" is actually Hades, not the lake of fire. All saved OT believers went to Hades, to the compartment called Paradise, and where Jesus went after His crucifixion. All unbelievers go to Hades, to the compartment of torments.

Second, I will point out AGAIN that the Bible doesn't SAY that God has or will. You seem to have a reading problem.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This isn't hell, FYI.

 

[ewq1938]

First, the Greek word translated "hell" is actually Hades, not the lake of fire.

No, the word is:

G1067
γέεννα
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12


That's not Hades.

All saved OT believers went to Hades, to the compartment called Paradise, and where Jesus went after His crucifixion.

False. Paradise is not a compartment of Hades.

Second, I will point out AGAIN that the Bible doesn't SAY that God has or will. You seem to have a reading problem.

You have the reading problem since you can't apparently tell which word is used in the verse. God says he is able to destroy souls in "geenna" which is the lake of fire. That WILL happen.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, the word is:

G1067
γέεννα
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

That's not Hades.

OK. Thanks for the correction.

False. Paradise is not a compartment of Hades.

Prove it.

You have the reading problem since you can't apparently tell which word is used in the verse. God says he is able to destroy souls in "geenna" which is the lake of fire. That WILL happen.

Thanks for your opinion. You don't know what "will happen". You only think you know.

Again, being able to do something and actually doing something aren't the same. Regardless of your opinion about it.

If you want to embrace annihilationism, go ahead.

 

[ewq1938]

OK. Thanks for the correction.

Sure but there are more corrections you are not accepting.

Prove it.

Read the passage. Christ spoke of two different places separated by a gulf.

Thanks for your opinion. You don't know what "will happen". You only think you know.

Again, being able to do something and actually doing something aren't the same. Regardless of your opinion about it.

If you want to embrace annihilationism, go ahead.

It's what the bible teaches.

You are wrong

1. That the verse spoke of Hades instead of the lake of fire.
2. That God will not destroy souls in the lake of fire.
3. That the bible is against Annihilationism.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sure but there are more corrections you are not accepting.

Give them to me.

Read the passage. Christ spoke of two different places separated by a gulf.

Abraham was in one place and a rich man was in the other. And they were speaking to each other. Sure sounds more like two compartments in one place than two separate places.

And the rich man wanted Abraham to send poor ol' Lazarus over to cool his tongue. Again, doesn't sound like two separate places.

I said:
"Again, being able to do something and actually doing something aren't the same. Regardless of your opinion about it.

If you want to embrace annihilationism, go ahead."

It's what the bible teaches.

No it doesn't.

You are wrong

I disagree.

1. That the verse spoke of Hades instead of the lake of fire.
2. That God will not destroy souls in the lake of fire.
3. That the bible is against Annihilationism.

I believe what the Bible says.

At the end of the Tribulation, the beast and FP are cast alive into the lake of fire.

Rev 19:20 - But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Then, 1,000 years later, at the end of the Millennium, Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Black bolded acknowledge that the devil is thrown into the same place as the beast and FP.
Red word: who in the heck does it refer to?
Blue words describe the status of "they".

This isn't difficult to figure out. Beast and FP cast into the lake of fire at end of Tribulation. Satan is cast into lake of fire at end of Millennium.

And then we read "THEY THEY THEY will be tormented DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER."

Since v.10 is about where Satan will be cast, and ends with THEY, it is clear that THEY refers to the beast, FP and Satan.

Then, immediately we have the GWT judgment. And what happens to all of them? They are cast into the same lake of fire.

So why would they experience a different status as the first 2 humans who were cast into the lake of fire?

Annihilationism is unbiblical. The word "they" in Rev 10:10 refutes that idea thoroughly.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Black bolded acknowledge that the devil is thrown into the same place as the beast and FP.
Red word: who in the heck does it refer to?
Blue words describe the status of "they".

This is correct translation:

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

There is no "they". The verse only says devil will be tormented day and night for ever and ever and that is very likely to be a figure of speech does not mean for ever and ever literally.

Then, immediately we have the GWT judgment. And what happens to all of them? They are cast into the same lake of fire.

So why would they experience a different status as the first 2 humans who were cast into the lake of fire?

I have already explained the idea of a "greater damnation". Not all get the same level of punishment. God can easily make one person die instantly in the lake of fire and others taking longer to die.

Annihilationism is unbiblical. The word "they" in Rev 10:10 refutes that idea thoroughly.

It is biblical and that verse does not refute it at all. It speaks of one person tormented forever and that is a figure of speech so you have ZERO evidence for your position which was created by the early RCC.


1/6 of the Early churches' theological schools taught eternal torment, ROME, where the birth of the Catholic church and Jesuits originated from. Rome is well known for paganism, perversions and heresies and the labeling of true doctrines as heresies. They are responsible for a massive number of Christian murders and torturing (no wonder they like doctrines that teach about torture). Most people consider that denomination to be antichrist and where the actual Antichrist will come from. Why believe in their doctrine??