UN vote What does it mean

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Nov 23, 2013
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#81
Lets see.

Isreal was allowed to rebuild the temple and city after Babylonian and persian exhile.. They did not repent.

Thank you for offering the chance to clear this up.
Where would I find God bringing Baal worshippers back into the land... Ezra? How about posting some scripture that shows Israel was still in rebellion against God and God put them back in the land.

I find it hard to believe that God was would violate HIS OWN covenant.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#82

Deuteronomy 32 46 And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and
through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

Israel's continued occupation of the land, as per the conditional Abrahamic covenant, was totally dependent on Israel's obedience to the Law.

What is particularly sad is that all these junked out Scofies believe all this mad Zionist crud, whilst all the Jews, barring a few, totally understand that Israel is a wholly illegitimate construct of a few nutty extremists.



yep. And Lev 26 confirms it.

Scripture says they will repent one day, Do you believe Scripture?




ps..(this is to everyone in the room not just spurgency)

If anyone is looking for peace in the middle east and Israel there will be none,, Dividing land will cause war not peace. It weakens Isreal. and she will be forced to defend herself..

lets get off the Israel bit and think about nations who do things to protect themselves. We did the very same thing they did. But they are evil??
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#83
Where would I find God bringing Baal worshippers back into the land... Ezra? How about posting some scripture that shows Israel was still in rebellion against God and God put them back in the land.

I find it hard to believe that God was would violate HIS OWN covenant.
You asked for proof. I gave it to you, And now your going to argue?

Your wrong dude, You are just wrong..
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#84

Deuteronomy 32 46 And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and
through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

Israel's continued occupation of the land, as per the conditional Abrahamic covenant, was totally dependent on Israel's obedience to the Law.

What is particularly sad is that all these junked out Scofies believe all this mad Zionist crud, whilst all the Jews, barring a few, totally understand that Israel is a wholly illegitimate construct of a few nutty extremists.


a) not hardly
b) not hardly
c) not hardly

try again........woven through history is a remnant.....right now..in the land there is a remnant.....and they will not be removed though the whole world gathers against them! End of Story!
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#85
been there done that, Please lets not turn another OP upside down..

we can not help it if you understand it or not. We do understand it, and have shared our view. If you disagree, that is fine, MOVE ON!!!
The children of the flesh - children who come out of the loins of Abraham ARE NOT the children of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#86
Is there peace in Israel?? No

Is God on his throne?? No

Will there be Peace in Isreal before God returns? No

This the present nation of Isreal is not her restoration because she repented... So lets please get off this bit.
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#88

yep. And Lev 26 confirms it.

Scripture says they will repent one day, Do you believe Scripture?




ps..(this is to everyone in the room not just spurgency)

If anyone is looking for peace in the middle east and Israel there will be none,, Dividing land will cause war not peace. It weakens Isreal. and she will be forced to defend herself..

lets get off the Israel bit and think about nations who do things to protect themselves. We did the very same thing they did. But they are evil??
Leviticus 26
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the Lord made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

How can this have any traction, application, or force, when the Old Covenant has expired?

I don't understand you guys.
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#89
This is the nub of the problem, you are inadvertently putting yourselves back under the Law.

This is the strong delusion Paul warned so forcefully against.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#90
Leviticus 26
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the Lord made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

How can this have any traction, application, or force, when the Old Covenant has expired?

I don't understand you guys.
It doesn't and I don't understand these guys either lol.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#91
God was clear about gathering them from all the places he had driven them and then establishing their place in history...numerous verses teach this.....some directly, some allude to it........tells me all I need to know about their understanding...I should say a lack thereof!
Why do you insist on DOWNING people when they don't agree with you? Is it POSSIBLE for you to debate without doing that? Very IMMATURE... I'm politely asking you to stop doing it please.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#92
You asked for proof. I gave it to you, And now your going to argue?

Your wrong dude, You are just wrong..
I dont know how it could get any clearer.


In Genesis 12:7a, we read: "The Lord appeared to Abram and said, 'To your descendants I will give this land.'"


In Genesis 13:15, He repeated His promise when He said, "for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever." He said the same thing in Genesis 15:18, "To your descendants I have given this land."

Genesis 17:7-8 states: "And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojourning, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

There are some today who say that this covenant was conditional, that it was based on Israel's faithfulness to God. The Bible teaches otherwise.

In Psalm 89:30-37, we read: "If his sons forsake My law, and do not walk in My judgments, if they violate My statues, and do not keep My commandments, then I will visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. But I will not break off My loving kindness from him, nor deal falsely in My faithfulness. My covenant I will not violate, nor will I alter the utterance of My lips. Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David. His descendants shall endure forever like the moon, and the witness in the sky is faithful."

Jeremiah 31:35-36 declares: "This is what the Lord says, 'He who appoints the sun to shine by day, Who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar -- the Lord Almighty is His Name; Only if these ordinances vanish from My sight,' declares the Lord, 'will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before Me.'


We agree that God promised to judge His people if they disobeyed Him. That is true for all of us. However, we do not agree with those who say that Israel's disobedience would forfeit their gift of the land and their national status as a people. Deuteronomy 28 shows that God's pronouncement of blessing and cursing only affected the quality of life of the Israelites, which was conditional upon their faithfulness. However, the promise of the land was not based upon Israel's performance, but upon God's oath and character -- He will not lie.
Deuteronomy 30 shows that before they even entered the Promised Land, He knew they would violate His statutes and be evicted in a future day. Yet it also declares that He would bring them back into the land He had given their forefathers.



In Genesis 12:1-3, we read, "The Lord has said to Abram, 'Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you I will curse; and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
Israel was located in the center of the ancient world, and all transportation and communication between the continents had to pass through this territory to reach the other. In doing so, the travelers, merchants and traders, and even the armies encountered the Children of Israel.
They were chosen for three purposes: to worship God in this land and show the world the blessing of serving the one true God of the Universe; to receive, record and transmit the Word of God (through them we have our Bible); and finally, to be the human channel for the Messiah from whom we have our salvation. In order for God to protect His purposes for the Children of Israel in the Land of Israel, He promised to bless those who blessed Abraham and his descendants and curse him who cursed them.


Abraham himself considered Ishmael as a possible descendant to whom God would give this land. In Genesis 17:18, Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before Thee." But God's answer was, and is, very clear. In Genesis 17:19, God answered Abraham, "No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him."
God promised to bless Ishmael and to make him a great nation: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation" (Genesis 17:20). However, the bloodline of the covenant promise concerning the Land would go through Isaac, not Ishmael: "...In Isaac your descendants shall be called" (Hebrews 11:18).

After Sarah died, Abraham had six more sons by Keturah, as well as others by his concubines, who are ancestors of many of the Arab peoples today. However, the covenant of the Land was not for them: "Now Abraham gave all he had to Isaac; but to the sons of his concubines, Abraham gave gifts while he was still living and sent them away from his son Isaac eastward, to the land of the east" (Genesis 25:5-6). Note that Abraham even sent these sons away from the Land of Canaan.


Jacob received the birthright from his father, Isaac. In Genesis 28:4, Isaac said to Jacob: "May He (God) also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you: that you may possess the land of your sojourning, which God gave to Abraham."
But it wasn't simply the words of his father Isaac that guided the future of Jacob. It was a direct revelation from God Himself that convinced Jacob of his destiny. The Lord God revealed to Jacob His message about this land. In Genesis 28:13-15, we read:
"I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall also be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And behold, I am with you, and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."


According to Genesis 36:6-9, Esau took his descendants and all his possessions and went to another land away from his brother Jacob. Esau lived in the hill country of Seir. The Bible tells us that Esau is Edom. It specifically tells us that the descendants of Esau are the Edomites, and Israel was not their land. The book of Obadiah is a proclamation of doom upon the sons of Esau (Edom) for their constant persecution of the descendants of Jacob (Israel): "Because of the violence against your brother Jacob, you will be covered with shame; you will be destroyed forever" (Obadiah 1:10).



In Deuteronomy 1:8, we read: "See, I have placed the land before you; go in and possess the land which the Lord swore to give to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to them and their descendants after them." On the east side of the Jordan River as the Israelites were about to enter into the Promised land, the Lord said to Joshua: "Moses My servant is dead. Now then, you and all these people, get ready to cross the Jordan river into the land I am about to give to them -- to the Israelites. I will give you every place where you set your foot, as I promised Moses. Your territory will extend from the desert and from Lebanon to the great river, the Euphrates - all the Hittite country -- and to the Great Sea on the west. Be strong and courageous, because you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them" (Joshua 1:2-4,6).
Joshua then told his people with these words: "This is how you will know that the living God is among you, and that He will certainly drive out before you the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girgashites, Amorites and Jebusites"(Joshua 3:10). He then told them how the Lord would part the flood waters of the Jordan River so they could cross over to the other side. This is what happened and then the people knew that God was with them, and they conquered the land, region by region, starting with Jericho.
The reality of conflict over the land of Israel is nothing new and in no way indicates that God is not with the Jewish people concerning the land issue today. I have heard Christians say that Israel today could not be part of God's plan, because there is so much war and strife that it can't be of God. However, since when has it been any different? All through the Older Testament, nations rose up to fight against the Jewish people, the descendants of Abraham, in the Land of Israel. From the moment Joshua brought the Children of Israel into the Promised Land, it was a fight to possess the Land. King David was seemingly at constant war with his neighbors, the Philistines. Why should it be surprising that conflict is still happening today? The enemies of God have always fought against His plans.
The prophet Zechariah makes it quite clear that at the end of days, God Himself will make Jerusalem a stumbling block for the nations and will judge them by whether or not they understand and support God's plans for Jerusalem and Israel. If they do, they will be blessed; if they don't, they will be destroyed: "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day, I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem" (Zechariah 12:1-2,9).



Many people have said that God's promise to give Israel this land was based upon Israel's faithfulness to God's laws, and that when they were disobedient and sent into captivity, this nullified God's promise. The Bible teaches otherwise. In Leviticus 26:40-45, we read that God would punish Israel for its disobedience and send them into captivity. But, according to verses 44-45, God will bring them back:
"Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the Lord." In Deuteronomy 30:3-5, God promises: "Then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. And the Lord; your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers."
Amos 9:14-15 thunders forth these remarkable words: "'Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, and they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, and make gardens and eat their fruit. I will also plant them on their land, and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them,' says the Lord your God."
Some opponents to Israel's right to the land say that these verses were fulfilled when the Jewish people returned from the Babylonian captivity. However, we know that there were other exiles and in-gatherings, as well. Yet, Amos speaks of a return to their ancient homeland, Israel, once and for all, when he says, "'. and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them,' says the Lord your God" (Amos 9:15). That has never happened in history and many believe that this return to Israel is that final return that will culminate in the coming of Messiah.



Ezekiel spoke of dry bones coming to life. Never before in history has a nation been destroyed and scattered all over the world, and then been brought back to life. It is a miracle and a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. We read in Ezekiel 37:11-12:
"Then He said to me, 'Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' Therefore prophesy, and say to them, 'thus says the Lord God, Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of ISRAEL.'"
Notice that the name of that land is ISRAEL, the land that so often is called the "land of Canaan" in the Bible. God says that in the last days it will be called ISRAEL.


he name, Palestine, was a regional name that was imposed on the area by the Roman Emperor, Hadrian, who suppressed the Second Jewish Revolt in AD 135. He was so angry with the Jews that he wanted to humiliate them and emphasize that the Jewish nation had lost its right to a homeland under Roman rule. The name Palaestina was originally an adjective derived from Philistia, the arch-enemies of the Israelites 1000 years earlier. Hadrian also changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina after his own family name, Aelia. He also forbade Jews from entering the city, except on the 9th of the Hebrew month, Av, to mourn its destruction. Since he was considered a god in the Roman Empire, this was his attempt to break God's covenant between the Jewish people and their land. This effectively declared his pagan authority over Jerusalem, which had been the place of the presence of the God of Israel. To this day, the name Palestine flies in the face of Israel and the entire issue can be boiled down to a religious (spiritual) battle over a land whose fate will be decided by the God of the Bible, since it is His land (Leviticus 25:23).
Yeshua (Jesus), in describing the signs of the end of the age, said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" (Luke 21:24b). From the time of Hadrian until 1967, Jerusalem was controlled by Gentiles. It is now back in the hands of the Jewish people, which is one sign that Messiah is soon to come to Zion.


The prophet Isaiah spoke of God's plan to bring His people back to Israel, saying: "He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel, He will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth" (Isaiah 11:12).
When the Jews began to return from the nations of the world at the end of the last century, the land was barren and sparsely inhabited. In the 1860s, the author, Mark Twain, traveled in what was then a backward region of the Ottoman Turkish Empire, called Palestine and described the land, thusly: "Nowhere in all the waste around was there a foot of shade." He called the land a "blistering, naked, treeless land." Of the Galilee, he said, "There is no dew, nor flowers, nor birds, nor trees. There is a plain and an unshaded lake, and beyond them some barren mountains." His summary of Palestine: "Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land."
This description matches the Ezekiel's prophecy of the "barren mountains of Israel" in Ezekiel 36:1-7. However, Ezekiel goes on to say, "But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for My people Israel, for they will soon come home. I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown, and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt. I will increase the number of men and animals upon you, and they will be fruitful and become numerous. I will settle people on you as in the past and will make you prosper more than before. Then, you will know that I am the Lord. I will cause people, My people Israel, to walk upon you. They will possess you, and you will be their inheritance; you will never again deprive them of their children" (Ezekiel 36: 8-12).
Truly, the return of the Jews from over 100 nations of the world is a modern-day miracle. Large waves of immigrants began to come in the 1880s. Since those early days, the deserts have been reforested, the rocky fields made fertile, the swamps drained and planted, the ancient terraces rebuilt, and the ruined cities of old re-established. Israel is now a nation of over six million people that is a food exporting nation that boasts high levels of literacy, health, education and welfare, high technology and agricultural development.



 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#93
The prophet Isaiah of Israel said: "Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. Surely the islands look to me; in the lead are the ships of Tarshish, bringing your sons from afar, with their silver and gold, to the honor of the Lord your God. Foreigners will rebuild your walls, and their kings will serve you. Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations. For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined" (Isaiah 60:1,9-12).


Our commitment to Israel was penned by the Psalmist so long ago in Psalm 102:13: "You will arise and have compassion on Zion, for it is time to show favor to her; the appointed time has come." This is that day.

Again the Psalmist exhorts us: "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; may they prosper who love you. May peace be within your walls, and prosperity within your palaces. For the sake of my brothers and my friends, I will now say, 'May peace be within you.' For the sake of the house of the Lord our God, I will seek your good" (Psalm 122; 6-9).

In Romans 11:11-14, Paul teaches us Christians that we are grafted into the olive tree, which are the covenants, promises and hopes of Israel. We do not hold up the tree, but it holds us up, so we should not boast against His people, Israel. In verse 28, he tells us that they are beloved for the sake of the patriarchs. Without the faithfulness of the Jewish people in Israel, we would not have our example, our Bible, our Yeshua or our salvation. Therefore, he concludes that "by our mercy, they will receive [God's] mercy." (Romans 11:31).

Paul teaches us Christians that we have a debt to pay to the Jewish people, by blessing them in tangible ways.

Romans 15:27 clearly states: "For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings." How much more direct can God be regarding our Christian relationship to Israel and the Jewish people.
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#94
When you post so much, it means we just have to work extra hard, and reply piece by piece, trying not to let the thread go off at a tangent.


In Psalm 89:30-37, we read: "If his sons forsake My law, and do not walk in My judgments, if they violate My statues, and do not keep My commandments, then I will visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. But I will not break off My loving kindness from him, nor deal falsely in My faithfulness. My covenant I will not violate, nor will I alter the utterance of My lips. Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David. His descendants shall endure forever like the moon, and the witness in the sky is faithful."
That is the Davidic Covenant, not the Abrahamic Covenant.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#95
When you post so much, it means we just have to work extra hard, and reply piece by piece, trying not to let the thread go off at a tangent.




That is the Davidic Covenant, not the Abrahamic Covenant.

This thread has long since gone off on a tangent. I rarely post long posts but the subject is deep enough that it takes more than a few sentences to answer. Words like forever,eternal,everlasting mean what they say. God says He will gather them from the corners of the earth.Its abundantly clear that Gods calling is irrevocable and that He is restoring the barren land and He will cleanse the people,just as His word said.


I forgot to post the article link- 12 Keys To Understanding Israel In The Bible, by Clarence H. Wagner Jr.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#96
Leviticus 26
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the Lord made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

How can this have any traction, application, or force, when the Old Covenant has expired?

I don't understand you guys.
Who said the old covenant expired for the nation of Israel? Concerning the land and the promise given to Abraham?

The old covenant NEVER saved anyone. But for the nation it was given to. It certainly is still in effect.

I do not understand how you can say something God gave to a people he said would be theirs FOREVER can cease to be in effect when the thing given STILL EXISTS.

As someone said earlier, TO you. forever does not mean forever. and that is scary because if God will not keep his eternal promise to them, what can stop god from reniging on his eternal promise to us?

Lev 26 is the foundation, If you want to live in peace in the land I gave you, this is what you must do.

If you turn from this, and disobey this will happen.

That is still in effect.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
This is the nub of the problem, you are inadvertently putting yourselves back under the Law.

This is the strong delusion Paul warned so forcefully against.

1. You need to stop listening to Zone, This is her main strawman
2. I am not putting myself under law. The law never SAVED ANYONE
3. This concerns a promise GOD gave to ONE NATION before they were even a nation.
4. God keeps his promises..

Deny this, and you deny God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#98
The abrahamic covenant was NOT CONDITIONAL

God said I WILL.

He NEVER said IF YOU (or your descendents) DO THIS. I WILL "do that"
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#99
Who said the old covenant expired for the nation of Israel?
God, and Paul.

Jeremiah 31 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel,

Hebrews 8 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
God, and Paul.

Jeremiah 31 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel,

Hebrews 8 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


so that means Gods promise of land no longer exists? (Abraham covenant)

The land promise was not dependent on the mosaic covanant, So it does not matter if the mosaic stopped or not.

Lev 26 is still in effect, what reason would there be to make it null and void? Does that mean God will return Israel to her land and let her live in peace when she is disobedient? and rejects her messiah? (please note. She is no living in peace now.)