Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

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CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#41
May 23, 2012
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#41
Unearthed said:
Thank you to the moderation team for approving this thread. I was unsure if it was going to be published, so thank you :)
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the team doesn't stop the thread it si the contents that are moderated. Allowing a thread is not an endorsement of it.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#43
May 18, 2021
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#43
CS1 said:
this is a false narrative of many professing Christians.

They pervert the love of God. God has to accept the sin of the sinner and call it love is unbiblical and damaging to the person eternally.

Just as a doctor would not be taking in a cancer patient and tell the person we need to do some serious things to change your condition to cure cancer. Oh NO! How unloving of the Doctor to say such a thing. He had no intention of helping, what a big awful manipulator this doctor is.

The Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is supposed to be a Hospital for sick souls.

Jesus came to set the captive FREE Not make them comfortable in the sin.

Jesus said to the prostitute Go and sin no more, less something worst happens to you. that is judgement ? NO. Jesus is telling you the very sin you were in will destroy you IF you keep doing it!
It is the greatest love there is Truth.

No one is condemning those who are homosexual the sin brings its own torment.

The idea that a church is to accept a person unconditionally means:

Don't preach sin will send you to hell, and Jesus one has to surrender to HIm is the only way out.

Jesus never left a prostitute as one He changed them,
The sick He healed them
The lost HE found them
the Sinner HE saved them!

And finally, in your own comment, you have accepted Homosexualaity as a race of people?

which it is not, it is a sexual sin that has an eternal end that all sin does, it brings death.
Homosexuality is not more a race of people than being a prostitute.

it is twisted in thinking such. Those who agree with that mind-set:

1. those who have gay family members and have accepted the sin as normal
2. they are gay themselves of struggle with it looking to be set free from the guilt of it.

3. Pastors who are openly gay and perverting the word of God and leading people astray.

We do not ask anyone who comes into the church are you gay? , we preach sin will take you to hell and Jesus is the only way out of it.

If the person tells us they are struggling with sexual sin we pray with them and provided godly counsel. Many people who are strait have sexual additions in fact I have ministered to more of those than professing gays.

Mainly because they have pastors who have said it is ok for you to be gay and a Christian.

That is a damnable lie, and that pastor will answer to God for causing those to fall.
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Really. Then explain:

Acts 8:26-40.
This passage recounts Philip's encounter with an Ethiopian eunuch. Eunuchs in Biblical times were ostracised because of their failure to adhere to sexual norms.
Common cultural understanding of the time would have held that their status as eunuchs barred them from inclusion in God's community. And yet, the eunuch in this passage seeks to follow the path of Christ even as he continues to live out his sexual otherness. He is welcomed and joyfully baptised into Christ's community.
The eunuch's question to Philip, "what is to prevent me from being baptised", highlights that his sexual status is not a barrier to inclusion in the eyes of God.

It is not a false doctrine.
As I wrote in the original post, Jesus uses love to define scripture, whereas humans use scripture to define love.

Using your metaphor of the cancer patient is a false equivalency.

Nobody is saying that anybody should be comfortable in their sin. The point is that it is not our place or judge, or throw stones...

I have no idea why you think I have said that homosexuals are a race when clearly they are not.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#44
Apr 21, 2021
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#44
Unearthed said:
This is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on CC.
"However, too much acceptance gives people the wrong idea" sums it up perfectly.
Disgusting.
I'll pray for you.
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Unearthed, why is it "ignorant?" Rather than insults and "prayer," why don't you enlighten me? Am I too ignorant to help? Is your unconditional love only for those who you believe deserve it?

I'm going to assume you spoke in haste and after you've thought about it maybe we can learn from each another.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#45
May 18, 2021
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#45
John146 said:
That my friend is adding to scripture. I’m not willing to do this. Have you addressed 1 Corinthians 5?
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And you my friend have taken away from it, have you addressed Acts 8:26-40?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#46
May 23, 2012
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#46
Unearthed said:
Interesting.
So you feel that homosexuals can be saved prior to forsaking their sexuality?

Do you feel that homosexual people are created in God's image, or not?

Acts 8:26-40.
This passage recounts Philip's encounter with an Ethiopian eunuch. Eunuchs in Biblical times were ostracised because of their failure to adhere to sexual norms.
Common cultural understanding of the time would have held that their status as eunuchs barred them from inclusion in God's community. And yet, the eunuch in this passage seeks to follow the path of Christ even as he continues to live out his sexual otherness. He is welcomed and joyfully baptised into Christ's community.
The eunuch's question to Philip, "what is to prevent me from being baptised", highlights that his sexual status is not a barrier to inclusion in the eyes of God.

That, my friend, is God's love.
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NO people are created in the image of God homosexuality is an act of people which God said man thou shall lay with a man as he does women WhenGod said that HE was just as loving then as HE is today and HE is just as Holy AS HE was then as HE is today.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#48
May 18, 2021
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#48
ResidentAlien said:
Unearthed, why is it "ignorant?" Rather than insults and "prayer," why don't you enlighten me? Am I too ignorant to help? Is your unconditional love only for those who you believe deserve it?

I'm going to assume you spoke in haste and after you've thought about it maybe we can learn from each another.
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If you don't understand, as an adult, why what you said is ignorant, then no, I'm not going to commence a lengthy process of helping you.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#49
Jan 13, 2016
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#49
Unearthed said:
There are two points I would like to raise in response to your message:

1. It is not our place to judge sinners. It is not our place to cast stones, as Jesus told us.

2. Acts 8:26-40
See message #27 in this thread.
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This is proper church discipline straight from the Lord. We are to judge the sin and get that person out if they’re not willing to leave that lifestyle of sin.

1 Corinthians 5
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#51
May 18, 2021
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#51
John146 said:
This is proper church discipline straight from the Lord. We are to judge the sin and get that person out if they’re not willing to leave that lifestyle of sin.

1 Corinthians 5
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Click to expand...
My, is that a plank in your eye...?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#52
May 23, 2012
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#52
Unearthed said:
Really. Then explain:

Acts 8:26-40.
This passage recounts Philip's encounter with an Ethiopian eunuch. Eunuchs in Biblical times were ostracised because of their failure to adhere to sexual norms.
Common cultural understanding of the time would have held that their status as eunuchs barred them from inclusion in God's community. And yet, the eunuch in this passage seeks to follow the path of Christ even as he continues to live out his sexual otherness. He is welcomed and joyfully baptised into Christ's community.
The eunuch's question to Philip, "what is to prevent me from being baptised", highlights that his sexual status is not a barrier to inclusion in the eyes of God.

It is not a false doctrine.
As I wrote in the original post, Jesus uses love to define scripture, whereas humans use scripture to define love.

Using your metaphor of the cancer patient is a false equivalency.

Nobody is saying that anybody should be comfortable in their sin. The point is that it is not our place or judge, or throw stones...

I have no idea why you think I have said that homosexuals are a race when clearly they are not.
Click to expand...
Look at at scripture to justify sexual sin go right ahead. The context of the Eunuch was cultural and physical. The word Eunuch in Acts is one of the positions for a specific
  1. one who voluntarily abstains from marriage
  2. in the palace of oriental monarchs who support numerous wives the superintendent of the women's apartment or harem, an office held by eunuchs
Your point is irrelevant unless you are suggesting the Eunuch was gay? No one is throwing stones, you are standing in a field alone shouting "stop touching me!".
 
CS1

CS1

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#53
May 23, 2012
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#53
Unearthed said:
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
Click to expand...


The comment is red you have posted if you did not know it you are indirectly or directly saying
Homosexuality is more than sin. Homosexuality is an identity, that is what your comment is suggesting and it is wrong.

it is an act of sin. So, are you sticking up for sin? or not?
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#54
Apr 21, 2021
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#54
Unearthed said:
If you don't understand, as an adult, why what you said is ignorant, then no, I'm not going to commence a lengthy process of helping you.
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I was there, you weren't. I've seen firsthand what happens when you "accept" people unconditionally. There are some very unsavory characters in the world in case you don't know. Do you love them in spite of it? Of course. But you don't compromise the church or the gospel just so a few gays, or whoever, won't fee pressured.

If that makes me ignorant, then I'll wear the label with honor.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#55
May 18, 2021
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#55
CS1 said:
The comment is red you have posted if you did not know it you are indirectly or directly saying
Homosexuality is more than sin. Homosexuality is an identity, that is what your comment is suggesting and it is wrong.

it is an act of sin. So, are you sticking up for sin? or not?
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Was Jesus sticking up for sin when he told people not to throw stones at the prostitute?
I am doing the same, no more, no less.
I'm sorry if this is unacceptable to you.
 
P

PaulNew

Banned
#56
Feb 24, 2019
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#56
ResidentAlien said:
Why do you say that?
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Forgive me. That was my fleshly/carnal mind speaking. My carnal mind thinks it is 'funny', but it is not.
Thank you brother for calling me out on that.

I once attended a Christmas party with my children at a local church youth club and the losers in games had a tin of beans poured on their head and I was almost physically sick.

And, let me confess the truth. I have once again had a couple of beers and it has obviously quickly affected me.
Please forgive me.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#58
May 23, 2012
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#58
Unearthed said:
Was Jesus sticking up for sin when he told people not to throw stones at the prostitute?
I am doing the same, no more, no less.
I'm sorry if this is unacceptable to you.
Click to expand...
He removed the sin and SAW the woman, she was a person needing HIM.

Jesus called to HER "Women", not "Hey Prosistute" Jesus did not identify the women by her sin BUT HER NEED. And told her to stop sinning so something worst doesn't happen to her. Jesus said that.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#59
Jan 13, 2016
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#59
Unearthed said:
Was Jesus sticking up for sin when he told people not to throw stones at the prostitute?
I am doing the same, no more, no less.
I'm sorry if this is unacceptable to you.
Click to expand...
The woman was not saved. We are to never judge the lost. I'm talking about proper church discipline as found in scripture.
 
CS1

CS1

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#60
May 23, 2012
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#60
Unearthed said:
Was Jesus sticking up for sin when he told people not to throw stones at the prostitute?
I am doing the same, no more, no less.
I'm sorry if this is unacceptable to you.
Click to expand...
He removed the sin and SAW the woman, she was a person needing HIM.

Jesus called to HER "Women", not "Hey Prosistute" Jesus did not identify the women by her sin BUT HER NEED. And told her to stop sinning so something worst doesn't happen to her. Jesus said that.

Red X all you want guy :)
 
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