Under Law or Under Grace

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Sep 23, 2023
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#41
I agree…
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus
I don't know if you've run in to the people I'm talking about--they parse everything to hell and back.

"Jew means 'from Judea', it's wrong to call an 'Israelite' a 'Jew'"--and when you prove them wrong, since Paul is both "Jew" and "Israelite", they just get angry. Like the Scripture says, they're like crackling brambles in a fire.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#43
Isaiah 42:1-7 NASB20 - "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one [in whom] My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations. "He will not cry out nor raise [His voice,] Nor make His voice heard in the street. "A bent reed He will not break [off] And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish; He will faithfully bring forth justice. "He will not be disheartened or crushed Until He has established justice on the earth; And the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law." This is what God the LORD says, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it: "I am the LORD, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.

In Ephesians Paul writes to the Gentiles. Depending on what translation you read it reads differently.

Ephesians 2:12 NASB20 - [remember] that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Excellent quote from Isaiah. Thank you
 
Sep 23, 2023
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#44
Either Elohei or Elohay. I don't know why people say El. I am open to learning about it. El is seen as the singular for the word God from Elohiym, the plural meaning Gods.
In Hebrew, plural form can indicate intensity, or greatness--elsewhere, also, it says "Creators" (referring to the Creator), as a way of showing His greatness. Christ is said to have died "deaths", but only died once, but it was its intensity that made them use the plural form.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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#46
I don't understand it all, with salvation being different from the new covenant, but I am willing to say that I am a partaker in Christ's work.
Paul says the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Ro 1:16).
"Gospel", "New Covenant"... why are you dividing them?
 
Sep 25, 2023
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Washington State
#47
In Hebrew, plural form can indicate intensity, or greatness--elsewhere, also, it says "Creators" (referring to the Creator), as a way of showing His greatness. Christ is said to have died "deaths", but only died once, but it was its intensity that made them use the plural form.
I have not heard of that but I have heard of the plural of majesty.

Do you say that God is the Creator and Jesus is the Creator? I am confused about what verse you might be referring to.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#48
I don't know if you've run in to the people I'm talking about--they parse everything to hell and back.

"Jew means 'from Judea', it's wrong to call an 'Israelite' a 'Jew'"--and when you prove them wrong, since Paul is both "Jew" and "Israelite", they just get angry. Like the Scripture says, they're like crackling brambles in a fire.
I guess I’m in the middle… I believe in Christ, so I’m confident in that alone.. I don’t believe Paul called himself a Jew. so to speak.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#49
Paul says the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Ro 1:16).
"Gospel", "New Covenant"... why are you dividing them?
Because I want to be saved but I am not of Israel, with whom the covenant was made.

The gospel and salvation are related.

God made a covenant through Moses. Then he made a new one after they had broken that one.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#51
Either Elohei or Elohay. I don't know why people say El. I am open to learning about it. El is seen as the singular for the word God from Elohiym, the plural meaning Gods.
was using EL from Strongs H410. Don't know for certain if that is the best choice instead of using God. Like you said EL is short for Elohiym which could be singular or plural depending on it's usage. Some other than English translations also use EL. It seems to be an accurate choice.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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#52
I have not heard of that but I have heard of the plural of majesty.

Do you say that God is the Creator and Jesus is the Creator? I am confused about what verse you might be referring to.
I used to listen to Dr. Michael L. Brown--he has a degree in Near Eastern language.

Obviously, both God the Father and Jesus are the Creator, but, in terms of the way Hebrew works, the verse where it says "Creators" would be understood as having been used in order to indicate His greatness.

Here is an example of someone (a Jew) struggling with the plural for "Creator": https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q...tors-job-3510-121-kohelet-singular-v-s-plural
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#53
was using EL from Strongs H410. Don't know for certain if that is the best choice instead of using God. Like you said EL is short for Elohiym which could be singular or plural depending on it's usage. Some other than English translations also use EL. It seems to be an accurate choice.
In Genesis we see first Elohiym translated as God.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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#54
Because I want to be saved but I am not of Israel, with whom the covenant was made.

The gospel and salvation are related.

God made a covenant through Moses. Then he made a new one after they had broken that one.
1. Paul says "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for the Jew first and also the Greek."
Why would you not think the Gospel that is God's power to salvation was for you?
Why not believe you were saved Eph 2?
Are you talking about future justification?

2. I meant with respect to how it impacts you--I understand the Gospel and salvation are only related, and are not the same thing.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#55
In Genesis we see first Elohiym translated as God.
Right. Through the OT Elohiym is used both in plural and singular. Please look at the verses that use H410 EL and see if you think it is an accurate Hebrew word to use instead of God.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#56
I used to listen to Dr. Michael L. Brown--he has a degree in Near Eastern language.

Obviously, both God the Father and Jesus are the Creator, but, in terms of the way Hebrew works, the verse where it says "Creators" would be understood as having been used in order to indicate His greatness.

Here is an example of someone (a Jew) struggling with the plural for "Creator": https://judaism.stackexchange.com/q...tors-job-3510-121-kohelet-singular-v-s-plural
Thank you.

Jesus prayed the following:

John 17:5 NASB20 - "And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#57
1. Paul says "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for the Jew first and also the Greek."
Yes. Perfect. Thanks.
Why would you not think the Gospel that is God's power to salvation was for you?
I do understand it to be for me, as a Gentile or a Greek. I don't know Greek, but it is talking about people other than the Jew. Basically.
Why not believe you were saved Eph 2?
I don't know what you are saying or asking.
Are you talking about future justification?
No. I don't know what future justification is. Sorry.
2. I meant with respect to how it impacts you--I understand the Gospel and salvation are only related, and are not the same thing.
Okay. They are related though. At least in the verse that you quoted.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
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#58
Romans 3 explains this very clearly. “None is righteous, no, not one;" ... "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" --- It's the same solution for everyone beginning with Adam.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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#59
I do understand it to be for me, as a Gentile or a Greek. I don't know Greek, but it is talking about people other than the Jew. Basically.

I don't know what you are saying or asking.

No. I don't know what future justification is. Sorry.

Okay. They are related though. At least in the verse that you quoted.
I don't understand why you're saying you "want" to be saved, then.
I'm not sure what the problem is supposed to be.