UNDERSTANDING FREE WILL

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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#41
Sep 4, 2013
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#41
Grandpa said:
Ok. Here's all this great stuff. You're really gonna love it. All you have to do is choose. But you have no understanding of it until after you have already chosen...

Maybe the one choice people need to learn and the reason they are so stubborn to not learn it is this;

Your will or His Will? Which one is most important and which one Saves??

Our Father, who is in Heaven, Hallowed be your Name.
Your Kingdom come, Your Will be done, On earth as it is in Heaven.

Because really, if you were so good at making right choices why couldn't you just choose to be righteous before Him by the Law?

It actually seems like a pretty easy choice. Mess up your life constantly and consistently, and watch those closest to you mess up their lives constantly and consistently, for about 35 yrs by your own ways and your own understanding. Then just choose to be blessed by God instead, laying down your will for His Perfect Will.

But then after you realize that all of your choices and your own will produced nothing but pain and misery, how are you going to credit the best decision you ever made by deciding to trust the Lord Jesus to your own great choosing abilities??? I couldn't. In order for me to come to Him I had to be perfectly broken in such a way that I knew I couldn't put myself back together. I had to trust Him to do it. And He does exceedingly abundantly more than we can ask or THINK.
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Ok, however, none of this refutes what I said in the comment you quoted.............so ???
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#42
Jun 24, 2011
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#42
p_rehbein said:
Ok, however, none of this refutes what I said in the comment you quoted.............so ???
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I'm not pretending to put myself in the place of God and tell Him what He can and can't do.

That's what you have attempted to do.

You have said "if" God has pre-ordained "then" there is no need for all the other things God has done. I don't pretend to know exactly how He works. I just know that my "free" will would never have been enough to get the job done that He has completed.

Its not that big of a deal. If you believe in the power of your own will then you do. Who can convince you otherwise? Certainly not some stranger on the internet... lol

All things work for the good for those that Love God and are called according to His Purpose. Do you have to explain how or why to other men? How can you? He is God and we are not.... His Ways are High above our ways....
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#43
Sep 4, 2013
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#43
Grandpa said:
I'm not pretending to put myself in the place of God and tell Him what He can and can't do.

That's what you have attempted to do.

You have said "if" God has pre-ordained "then" there is no need for all the other things God has done. I don't pretend to know exactly how He works. I just know that my "free" will would never have been enough to get the job done that He has completed.

Its not that big of a deal. If you believe in the power of your own will then you do. Who can convince you otherwise? Certainly not some stranger on the internet... lol

All things work for the good for those that Love God and are called according to His Purpose. Do you have to explain how or why to other men? How can you? He is God and we are not.... His Ways are High above our ways....
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Oh, ok, so you didn't read the entire OP...........well, that's all right, it was lengthy...........had you read the entire OP, you would not be making such statements............. :)
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#44
Sep 4, 2013
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#44
Originally Posted by p_rehbein
Actually...............IF PREDESTINATION as stated by Calvin is TRUTH, then here is a list of things made of no necessity:


(funny how folks just skip right over what I actually said to condemn me for what they twisted my words into saying....sigh)
 
guestno2

guestno2

Banned
#45
Feb 23, 2014
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#45
But that idea and that attitude that we (people) can speak about what is God going to do or what He should do, because it is written, (so what? he is still God you can not predict Him) it is hide in undertone and content what people say here, and not just in this thread ....
Grandpa... finally somebody said it .. like I feel it
Oh, pity that I can "like" just once grandpas post :)
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#46
Sep 4, 2013
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#46
guestno2 said:
But that idea and that attitude that we (people) can speak about what is God going to do or what He should do, because it is written, (so what? he is still God you can not predict Him) it is hide in undertone and content what people say here, and not just in this thread ....
Grandpa... finally somebody said it .. like I feel it
Oh, pity that I can "like" just once grandpas post :)
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..........sigh...........

I would think that most here own a Holy Bible.....and at least ON OCCASION READ it........Guess what is in The Holy Bible?

What God SAID He did........
What God SAID He will do......

All that is necessary for us is to BELIEVE...........

So, If I say...........God said.....and it's in the Bible, how on earth is that a wrong attitude? Do you not believe God did what He said He did, and will do what He said He will do?

(goodness)
 
guestno2

guestno2

Banned
#47
Feb 23, 2014
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#47
of course I believe that... but it is not about my faith.. it is about sovereignty of God's, God is above everything that's what I am trying to say ...I'm sorry I can describe it better ....
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#48
Sep 4, 2013
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#48
guestno2 said:
of course I believe that... but it is not about my faith.. it is about sovereignty of God's, God is above everything that's what I am trying to say ...I'm sorry I can describe it better ....
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If you read the entire OP, you will see that I spoke of the Sovereignty of God and how that His Sovereignty is not negated by the GIFT......for it is surely a GIFT FROM GOD.................of free will.....I know it's a looonnnggg OP, but, goodness, before y'all gather round to tar and feather me.......at least pay me the courtesy to actually READ what I posted....goodness...

Anyway, God bless...........
 
guestno2

guestno2

Banned
#49
Feb 23, 2014
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#49
You know what I sometimes get from some posts .. it reminds me how Job friends preached about how God thinks and does things and how He is… how He is predictable and always in line … and Job on the other hand saw that God's works in mysterious ways because He is God and no one can predict Him…
And what does God said at the end?
And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
again, sorry for EN, I cant describe it better...
be blessed
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#50
Sep 4, 2013
30,298
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#50
guestno2 said:
You know what I sometimes get from some posts .. it reminds me how Job friends preached about how God thinks and does things and how He is… how He is predictable and always in line … and Job on the other hand saw that God's works in mysterious ways because He is God and no one can predict Him…
And what does God said at the end?
And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
again, sorry for EN, I cant describe it better...
be blessed
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Oh, ok, so now you condemn me for being as those who condemned Job? Wow............sigh........
 
guestno2

guestno2

Banned
#51
Feb 23, 2014
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#51
nooooooooo... no..:(
this is ridiculous ..I am always somehow managing to cross you ...
you know what, again .... forget what I said...
be blessed
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#53
Jun 24, 2011
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#53
p_rehbein said:
Originally Posted by p_rehbein
Actually...............IF PREDESTINATION as stated by Calvin is TRUTH, then here is a list of things made of no necessity:


(funny how folks just skip right over what I actually said to condemn me for what they twisted my words into saying....sigh)
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Have you read Institutes of the Christian Religion?
 
D

danalee

Guest
#54
#54
p_rehbein said:
Actually...............IF PREDESTINATION as stated by Calvin is TRUTH, then here is a list of things made of no necessity:

1) Jesus Christ, His death, burial and resurrection.
2) The First Covenant/Law
3) The New Covenant/Grace
4) Establishment of the Church as witnessed by Pentecost
5) The Great Commission
6) The Holy Bible

None of these are of any value or necessity IF FROM THE BEGINNING GOD PREDETERMINED WHO WOULD GO TO HEAVEN, AND WHO WOULD GO TO HELL...............
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You are thinking too much about this. One could also say that it is high heresy to incline that God created us, knowing full well we might fail and create evil. That would make him responsible for evil and not in control; thereby he is diminished to the station of man, waiting and hoping his effort as Christ would save more people he created imperfectly. The brain can never choose right. We are incapable of understanding God, but we must have faith his plan is perfect and his power complete.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#55
Nov 24, 2012
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#55
p_rehbein said:
I don't discount the scripture(s) posted, I like them. But they do not negate God's gift of free will to mankind....... :)
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OH, you mean the free will He gifted Adam and Eve before the Fall; which fall has depraved and enslaved mankind to sin and satan only to be freed by the power of the Gospel?
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#56
Sep 4, 2013
30,298
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#56
crossnote said:
OH, you mean the free will He gifted Adam and Eve before the Fall; which fall has depraved and enslaved mankind to sin and satan only to be freed by the power of the Gospel?
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Brother, not quite sure what you are saying here........are you saying God "forced" Adam and Eve to disobey Him?

just wondering..........anyway, I will always stand against the teachings of Calvin..............so we must agree to disagree. IMHO, Calvin did more damage to the Church than any one man from Pentecost............but, now, that's just me so.....

Anyway, God bless................

TO THE OTHERS who have twisted my words, misrepresented my commentary, and completely failed to prove Calvin's ideology as Biblical Truth..............hey, take heart.......

God PREDESTINED me to understand from Scripture that Calvin was wrong (T.U.L.I.P.), and to share that news here with you. So, when you belittle and berate me here, you are belittling and berating the WILL OF GOD, what He predestined.

(uh-oh,................ :) )
 
D

danalee

Guest
#57
#57
:) Keepin it real. Thanks for your thoughts....
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#58
Nov 24, 2012
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113
#58
p_rehbein said:
Brother, not quite sure what you are saying here........are you saying God "forced" Adam and Eve to disobey Him?

just wondering..........anyway, I will always stand against the teachings of Calvin..............so we must agree to disagree. IMHO, Calvin did more damage to the Church than any one man from Pentecost............but, now, that's just me so.....

Anyway, God bless................

TO THE OTHERS who have twisted my words, misrepresented my commentary, and completely failed to prove Calvin's ideology as Biblical Truth..............hey, take heart.......

God PREDESTINED me to understand from Scripture that Calvin was wrong (T.U.L.I.P.), and to share that news here with you. So, when you belittle and berate me here, you are belittling and berating the WILL OF GOD, what He predestined.

(uh-oh,................ :) )
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No, I am saying Adam and Eve had free will. But since the Fall, mankind has been a slave to sin and satan until freed by the power of the Gospel.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#59
Sep 4, 2013
30,298
6,591
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#59
crossnote said:
No, I am saying Adam and Eve had free will. But since the Fall, mankind has been a slave to sin and satan until freed by the power of the Gospel.
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Well, now! I certainly agree with that.............so..........maybe we should move on while we are in agreement...........

God bless..................... :)
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#60
Jun 30, 2011
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#60
why can't we have a nice short post instead of 3 posts just to make a point?

The human will is not sovereign
The human will is fallen
the human will is enslaved to sin apart from Christ
 
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