Understanding God’s election

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That's because believing comes as the result of salvation; it doesn't save anyone. One must first be saved to gain faith.
You should already know that.
Yet,they don't.
Take a moment to remember the examples Jesus provided. Jesus was the word in the beginning. The word that spoke all things to come into being. All has life and material presence in this dimension because the word that is God spoke.

The word became flesh and dwelt among us. Immanuel,or spelled as Emmanuel. Meaning, God with us.

The word arrived and brought his new covenant. He would later die on a tree, anyone who died on a tree is cursed, so to seal as is tradition that new covenant with blood yet again.

His word is truth.

So,ask yourselves why do humans need to be saved?
Because we are dead in sin that seperates us from a sinless Creator, Father.

Emmanuel,Jesus the anointed,Christ,told us the condition we're in and the conditions he set forth so to abate that.

If we believe in Jesus we believe every word of the word. We are what Jesus said. And we can only change that by how he said it is accomplished.

That's it. That's the truth of God in Christ. It isn't truly debatable.

So,try this. Is our divergent opinion Gospel? Does it save? If we don't like what Jesus,
Immanuel,taught,do we change it to accommodate our preferred narrative as many here are doing?

When they don't respect the words of God shall we ever
reach them with the words of God?

Maybe consider those like cv5 are a blessing.

While they are not an example of Christ's truth they are an example of the extent to which lovers of the flesh will go to in order to protect and sustain their temple to the flesh.

And that is moral depravity,death in sin.

No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them. The only way we can be drawn is if Holy Spirit God enters in and allows us to understand the words of the word.
Without that we write our own book that gives us power. That lets us overcome God's Sovereignty by our choice to tell ourselves we are redeemed by our choosing.

Because we first don't accept God tells us we who are first dead in our sins are able to make a choice that makes God redeem us because we tell him we can choose that option all on our own. And be right.
And God will agree.

We are privileged in just this thread to read everything Jesus told us about the dead. And their altar to self and ego.

What a blessing.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Its not true that no one understands.

The verse that Romans 3:11 cites was citing commentary found in Psalms on the state of apostate Jews in the day it was written.
They totally blow those passages. Just like they do everything else.

Like zero comprehension man. Talk about an uninterrupted losing streak it's embarrassing.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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That was speaking of rebellious Jews that Ezekiel was confronting.

Its like today when Christians en mass speak in tongues and seek miracles.
No, it was against Israel, unless by rebellious you mean that Israel did not live up to their agreement with God not to worship other gods. God gave His laws to the OT nation, not to individuals.

[Eze 20:27 KJV] 27 Therefore, son of man, speak unto the house of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Yet in this your fathers have blasphemed me, in that they have committed a trespass against me.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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And that's why it's written:

"No one understands" (Rom 3:11b)?
I know you don't.



It was speaking of a specific time of great apostasy in ancient Israel.
It was written in Psalms.

"For the fool says in his heart there is no God...."

Were they all fools?
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Because we first don't accept God tells us we who are first dead in our sins are able to make a choice that makes God redeem us because we tell him we can choose that option all on our own. And be right.
And God will agree.
Sorry, Cranberry, I'm not sure that I entirely follow your reasoning here. I will just say IMHO I do not believe we are capable
in any way, even to the slightest degree, of contributing to our salvation at all; that is, that it was all achieved by Christ alone on our behalf, and all of attributes associated with it, such as faith, come to us as a result of that salvation, being gifts from Him. But I am not sure if you are in agreement with that perspective or not.

As far as cv5 (and others like him go), I try (but am not always successful) to think of them as foils in order to convey the gospel message to others, as I (and I believe others on this thread) perceive it to be.
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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You ghoulish Calvinites set up impenetrable barriers to salvation. In fact a TOTALLY impenetrable barrier.
And you wouldn't have it any other way.
Yes. And the impacts are beyond comprehension. Believers will NEVER advance in His plan for their lives. Unbelievers are hindered from His Gospel. Grace and truth is not advanced to believers or unbelievers. The great commission is halted. .......His Glory is hidden from all with this false doctrine.

Bible class 101 will be filled to capacity with standing room only in His Millennial Kingdom.
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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I will just say IMHO I do not believe we are capable
in any way, even to the slightest degree, of contributing to our salvation at all
I agree. And so do those who have been participating in this thread. Having trust in Christ for salvation is just that...........trusting Him to save us.

You believe. So you are a worker for salvation? You contributed? No. He saved you.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Sorry, Cranberry, I'm not sure that I entirely follow your reasoning here. I will just say IMHO I do not believe we are capable
in any way, even to the slightest degree, of contributing to our salvation at all; that is, that it was all achieved by Christ alone on our behalf, and all of attributes associated with it, such as faith, come to us as a result of that salvation, being gifts from Him. But I am not sure if you are in agreement with that perspective or not.

As far as cv5 (and others like him go), I try (but am not always successful) to think of them as foils in order to convey the gospel message to others, as I (and I believe others on this thread) perceive it to be.
When you die on the Cross for your sins?
Then you contribute to your salvation....

Accepting a free ticket to a concert does not merit approval for doing so.
But, you had to accept the ticket to have it.

Calvinists have been given a line to bring down the believer with some harsh, unloving demands,
in its explaining salvation.

It's almost close to hating the one who just got saved.
Like some kill-joy wanted to destroy the joy that salvation will bring.

Satan hates those who enter into salvation, and is jealous of them, knowing the life they will enter into
at the resurrection. So? He creates a system of logic to bring them down....

You did nothing to save yourself.
But, you did do something to get to the doorway leading into the "living room" of the one who did save you.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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I just had a brain fart, so maybe someone can jog my memory; for I know that David somewhere in the Psalms brings out this last truth I just wrote in the last sentence in the above paragraph. I recall him praying to God to grant him repentance and power to keep his holy law
Any of these, Rufus? Couldn't find an exact match re the above but these are generally similar.

[Psa 119:27, 46 KJV]
27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works. ...
46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.

[Psa 119:34 KJV]
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with [my] whole heart.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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You did nothing to save yourself.
But, you did do something to get to the doorway leading into the "living room" of the one who did save you.
No, I was incapable of contributing, before, during, or after becoming saved. I was completely dead in sin yet given life - a gift from God in its fullness by His mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. That's what makes Christ Savior and me not.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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Only in your addled mind.

A native on an island who hears about Jesus from the testimony of a missionary and believes him is SAVED.
No bible, no commentaries, no systematic theology, no voluminous libraries, no nothing.

And certainly no "critical understanding" of Eph 2:5.

I have heard testimony from Pastor Joe Focht about 2 young women heroin addicts who walked into his Church, heard the gospel, believed it, got saved......and BOTH died the next day from overdoses. Were they saved?

Did they possess a "critical understanding" of Eph 2:5?

You ghoulish Calvinites set up impenetrable barriers to salvation. In fact a TOTALLY impenetrable barrier.
And you wouldn't have it any other way.
And any false doctrine soon goes off into the weeds somewhere. He is a personal Savior. It is a personal relationship. That means each side has a personal CHOICE to make.

And election, as the calvies teach it, is not personal. So have they really made a PERSONAL choice for Christ? Or were they just taught that they were elected and they are good to go?........It's not a precipice I would want to stand on.

As I have said before. If (and they are not)they are right, Us freewillers are safe. If (and we are) we are right, they stand on shaky ground.....They have not made a freewill choice to trust in Him.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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I agree. And so do those who have been participating in this thread. Having trust in Christ for salvation is just that...........trusting Him to save us.

You believe. So you are a worker for salvation? You contributed? No. He saved you.
No, not for salvation, trust in Christ AS Savior - that He did it all on my behalf, but that is not what saved me - that understanding came as a result of salvation so, I had already become saved before I realized that trust. Trust was the result, Christ the cause.
 
Dec 7, 2024
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Sorry, Cranberry, I'm not sure that I entirely follow your reasoning here. I will just say IMHO I do not believe we are capable
in any way, even to the slightest degree, of contributing to our salvation at all; that is, that it was all achieved by Christ alone on our behalf, and all of attributes associated with it, such as faith, come to us as a result of that salvation, being gifts from Him. But I am not sure if you are in agreement with that perspective or not.
I am. I meant to be clear in that regard in my post.

We cannot choose to Save ourselves. We are told this in writing, God's Breath,His word. Repeatedly.

For me,that is where discernment arrives. When we read someone insist upon the contrary of what God teaches. And I sist they choose,elect,to believe in their own and deny God must change them first.

That's the false doctrine that errects an altar to self and ego.


As far as cv5 (and others like him go), I try (but am not always successful) to think of them as foils in order to convey the gospel message to others, as I (and I believe others on this thread) perceive it to be.
Of course. That is our calling.
Cv5 and others like them serve God's purpose too. They don't answer to us. They will answer to God in his due time.
Falsity being refuted by Gospel truth only occurs if God wills.

It is a beautiful thing to witness someone's understanding of His words open while that chosen one is posting on a forum such as this.
We know one another by the fruits of His Spirit.

That's also how we know those who are other. They defend their falsehood with the tools of the flesh.
 

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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No, not for salvation, trust in Christ AS Savior - that He did it all on my behalf, but that is not what saved me - that understanding came as a result of salvation so, I had already become saved before I realized that trust. Trust was the result, Christ the cause.
Then you are a worker for salvation..........You trust in Him.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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I agree. And so do those who have been participating in this thread. Having trust in Christ for salvation is just that...........trusting Him to save us.

You believe. So you are a worker for salvation? You contributed? No. He saved you.
Adam absolutely knew that he was incapable of saving himself or the woman.

BUT..........what he COULD do and what he DID do was confess his sin and throw himself upon the mercy of his loving Creator.

Yet the nutter ghoulish Calvinites say that this is a "work", that it is "saving yourself" and is absolutely forbidden everywhere all the time.

That's right. Repenting. Confessing. Pleading for mercy and forgiveness. The ultimate transgressions. The fatal sins greater than all sins........so say the nutter Calvinites.

They must be outraged that Adam and Eve did this and where saved. How dare they impugn the sovereignty of God!

I have earlier posted the insanity of this position. No need to do it again
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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No, not for salvation, trust in Christ AS Savior - that He did it all on my behalf, but that is not what saved me - that understanding came as a result of salvation so, I had already become saved before I realized that trust. Trust was the result, Christ the cause.
How DARE Adam and Eve insult God and assault God with their horrific acts of desire and will in begging to be saved and be reconciled to Him. How DARE they repent of their own free will.

Isn't that right @rogerg ?
I mean that's what you and your nutter Calvinite homies believe right? Right?
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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How DARE Adam and Eve insult God and assault God with their horrific acts of desire and will in begging to be saved and be reconciled to Him. How DARE they repent of their own free will.

Isn't that right @rogerg ?
I mean that's what you and your nutter Calvinite homies believe right? Right?
Give me the verses you're referring to
 
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“For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1st Corinthians 15:21-22

45.Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit."

Adam was not Saved.