Understanding God’s election

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Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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We're going back into a circle again. I have just posted more than enough Scripture to debunk that belief that God arbitrarily chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Why would I want to go to heaven if God chose to send my spouse to hell? It's a ridiculous belief that is not found in Scripture. I'm sorry, it's not personal. I have seen first hand God take a person bound in sin and set them free. I can tell you story after story. God does not choose people for destruction.
You should be more aware of what you write! Calvinists believe and relate very similar stories. Once a person is set free FROM sin, the flesh, the devil, THEN that person become free TO repent and believe the Gospel. Freedom is a two-edged; but you naive freewillers only see it as a single edged sword, i.e. free TO....do something.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I dont know what you talking about, but Rom 5:18 is about the elect, and all elect were altogether chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 regardless of ethnicity
So you admit that ethnicity underlies Paul's narration in Romans?

Why switch from Romans to the letter to the Ephesians?

Here is Romans 5:18 again.

Romans 5:18
So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through
one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

A simple verse in a simple letter.

You can't change the meaning of the two occurrences of, "to all men", in that one verse.

Was that justification of life offered "to all men"?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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No one will have any excuse on judgement day because all men know they are far from perfect.

And, yes, we do actually believe -- but only by God's grace. No Grace, no Faith!
And yet though it is by his grace we still have to choose to believe and the reason everyone will not have an excuse on judgement day is not because no one is perfect that is what we need salvation for but because we rejected the truth
Do you mean to say God controls you and that is why you believe? you have no will and everything is just God's will with no accountability on your part?
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus’ words in John 6:65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1:21 and 2:13; Ephesians 2:1a and 3b; Philippians 1:6 and 2:13
:)
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Didn't Satan use God's Word to tempt Jesus? Why wouldn't his children emulate him?
[2Co 11:13-15 KJV]
13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 

lrs68

Active member
Dec 30, 2024
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But NO ONE understands (Rom 3:11). God hating people suppress truth about him, wanting nothing to do with him.
I gave a format that God makes us aware and then we repent just like Ephesians 2 explains and you choose to ignore.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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I gave a format that God makes us aware and then we repent just like Ephesians 2 explains and you choose to ignore.
Someone who repents is not a God hater...

He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of
His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:13-14



Colossians 1:13
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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But all men are not justified, are they? So who is all men?
As the scripture clearly states, Cameron.

"one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

The offer is open to all men because Christ granted that justification to all men.

To receive that justification which is freely given, the caveat, is that it's available to all men in Christ.

All men have been granted that justification, Cameron.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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The Gospel is defined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15.

Tulip is a theology and was not defined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15.

You are altering the definition of words in the New Testament.
1 Cor 15:3-4 is a shell of the Gospel, once its studied, the Doctrines of TULIP come into view. For instance, who does Paul mean when he said Christ died for OUR sins according to the scriptures ? Paul was going by the OT scriptures to show who Christ died for.
 

lrs68

Active member
Dec 30, 2024
121
41
28
Someone who repents is not a God hater...

He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of
His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:13-14



Colossians 1:13
Amen!

I love that God showed me who I was without Him and why I needed Him.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I dont know what you talking about, but Rom 5:18 is about the elect, and all elect were altogether chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 regardless of ethnicity
Ephesians 1:4
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

That verse states that anyone who believes in Him is chosen to be holy!

"that we would be holy and blameless before Him"

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world", does not say we were chosen to be saved.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,591
608
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So you admit that ethnicity underlies Paul's narration in Romans?

Why switch from Romans to the letter to the Ephesians?

Here is Romans 5:18 again.

Romans 5:18
So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through
one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

A simple verse in a simple letter.

You can't change the meaning of the two occurrences of, "to all men", in that one verse.

Was that justification of life offered "to all men"?
The elect are people from all nations, the redeemed, haven't you ever read Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Again Rom5:18 is only the elect being discussed, the very same people of Rev 5:9
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,591
608
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Ephesians 1:4
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

That verse states that anyone who believes in Him is chosen to be holy!

"that we would be holy and blameless before Him"

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world", does not say we were chosen to be saved.
Rom 5:18 and Eph 1:4 are the same people
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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As the scripture clearly states, Cameron.

"one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

The offer is open to all men because Christ granted that justification to all men.

To receive that justification which is freely given, the caveat, is that it's available to all men in Christ.

All men have been granted that justification, Cameron.
It is your understanding that every single human has been justified by God? On what basis then does God cast an individual into the lake of fire?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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The gift of the Spirit, also referred to by Jesus as the gift of the Father and prophesied by the prophet Joel, is not what is in view in Romans 5:18, and neither is it Him functioning in the capacity that you have shared.
"the Holy Spirit is at work to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement." (John 16:8)

Are you trying to say that the Holy Spirit does not convict, "the world", of sin?

Are you also saying that, "to all men", does not mean "to all men"? (Romans 5:18)

You have an interpretation that is warping the meaning of words and phrases in the N.T.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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It is your understanding that every single human has been justified by God? On what basis then does God cast an individual into the lake of fire?
For rejecting the truth, that justification, the free gift, love, even Christ Himself.

People cast themselves into destruction by rejecting life, as Adam did.

That justification is available to anyone, to all men, it is a gift freely given.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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"the Holy Spirit is at work to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement." (John 16:8)

Are you trying to say that the Holy Spirit does not convict, "the world", of sin?

Are you also saying that, "to all men", does not mean "to all men"? (Romans 5:18)

You have an interpretation that is warping the meaning of words and phrases in the N.T.
No, I'm actually not. Follow the logic.

You say all men means all mankind. This is easily seen as false as all humankind is not justified and have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. Christ's righteousness is only imputed to believers. Thus, all men cannot possibly mean all mankind.
Neither does it mean that it has been made available to all mankind from the context of the verse. The word available simply isn't there nor implied. It must be imposed on the verse.
Thankfully, there is an explanation that comports with the whole of scripture. Happy to explain it to you if you like.