Understanding God’s election

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Oct 15, 2024
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Just in case you changed your mind and are holding your breath:

My post 666 (for brevity, only the germane portion included)

"If your belief were to be correct that salvation depends solely upon an individual's actions and choices "

Your post 625, which seems to fit your requirement of "show me where I said anything close" category that you requested.

"I am not sure how you are applying the word 'power' to God's grace here. I do believe we have a choice and I do believe God actually does bring us to the place where we do have that choice (accept Christ) unlike Calvinists who believe we have no choice. I think you may be conflating the word power with the understanding of grace, taking into consideration your highlighting of the word power. Indeed, power is not unmerited favor but it is not grace either. I don't think we will agree on that."

If you believe there is another way besides by a person's choice, let's hear it. Otherwise, the question to you remains:
how do those, who for reasons beyond their control are unable to choose, become saved? And if they are not saved,
then explain what happens to them?
It would be helpful if you would actually quote a person you are addressing as the above post is confusing. Perhaps you do that on purpose? I don't know. I believe Jesus is the Way. Calvin will never have it his way. What do you want? You don't agree with Genez but are not above using what you assume to be proof of who knows what as part of your Calvinist poofy display of arrogance.
 
Aug 25, 2024
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Typical attempt to enter into a debate with not one, but two, individuals who refuse to address actual posts. As I stated, I said nothing even close to what Rogerg is suggesting.

Why don't you clean up your act and not address other believers as heretical or believing in some heresy. There is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Himself. Calvinism is not the way. Jesus is the Way.
Be careful. Don't imply I or anyone who doesn't agree with you are not of Christ. And especially don't you ever claim my god is Satan.


Clear?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,810
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Well, tell me, sir: Who existed first: Esau and Jacob or the nations they eventually became? The text in Romans 9 doesn't say that God loved Israel and hated Edom. :rolleyes:
You still do not understand what it is that God saves....

Hint.... The part of us responsible for our depravity?
Was crucified with Christ.

God sees it as dead!
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,315
252
83
Typical attempt to enter into a debate with not one, but two, individuals who refuse to address actual posts. As I stated, I said nothing even close to what Rogerg is suggesting.

Why don't you clean up your act and not address other believers as heretical or believing in some heresy. There is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Himself. Calvinism is not the way. Jesus is the Way.
For your info, Calvinism also teaches that "Jesus is the Way"? So, was there some point you were trying to make in your above post?

However, there are many versions of the gospel and any version that rejects the Five Doctrines of Grace is definitely at minimum a false gospel.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,315
252
83
You still do not understand what it is that God saves....

Hint.... The part of us responsible for our depravity?
Was crucified with Christ.

God sees it as dead!
I thought God was in the soul saving business? No?

The "part" of us responsible for our depravity is our fallen human nature and a totally depraved heart.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,810
412
83
I thought God was in the soul saving business? No?

The "part" of us responsible for our depravity is our fallen human nature and a totally depraved heart.
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit .
Hebrews 4:12

Why was the body not mentioned?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,810
412
83
I thought God was in the soul saving business? No?

The "part" of us responsible for our depravity is our fallen human nature and a totally depraved heart.

Heart is where you concluded in your soul what you believe as reality.
After all... It was Satan that "thought in his heart that he would make himself as the Most High."

Now?

Your soul - sans body - will be able to think free of the flesh.
In other words?
You soul is not innately fallen when the influence of the flesh has been bypassed.
In the mean while, without Grace? Your soul is a slave to what is fallen.

Just like you might be an excellent driver?
Getting drunk would turn your jaunt down the road into a disaster.

Yet, being sober, or drunk?

Its your same soul driving that car.
Meaning?
What controls over your soul? Determines depravity, or righteousness.

The fallen nature of man is like being a perpetual drunk that will not allow your soul to think and react correctly.

Using 1 John 1:9, and remaining filled with the filling of the Spirit, is God's answer to sobering you up in a world
of drunks driving down the road of life.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,649
566
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It would be helpful if you would actually quote a person you are addressing as the above post is confusing. Perhaps you do that on purpose? I don't know. I believe Jesus is the Way. Calvin will never have it his way. What do you want? You don't agree with Genez but are not above using what you assume to be proof of who knows what as part of your Calvinist poofy display of arrogance.
Huh?
 
Oct 15, 2024
66
18
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For your info, Calvinism also teaches that "Jesus is the Way"? So, was there some point you were trying to make in your above post?

However, there are many versions of the gospel and any version that rejects the Five Doctrines of Grace is definitely at minimum a false gospel.
Take a deep breath. You are sounding desperate.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,812
8,305
113
Heart is where you concluded in your soul what you believe as reality.
After all... It was Satan that "thought in his heart that he would make himself as the Most High."

Now?

Your soul - sans body - will be able to think free of the flesh.
In other words?
You soul is not innately fallen when the influence of the flesh has been bypassed.
In the mean while, without Grace? Your soul is a slave to what is fallen.

Just like you might be an excellent driver?
Getting drunk would turn your jaunt down the road into a disaster.

Yet, being sober, or drunk?

Its your same soul driving that car.
Meaning?
What controls over your soul? Determines depravity, or righteousness.

The fallen nature of man is like being a perpetual drunk that will not allow your soul to think and react correctly.

Using 1 John 1:9, and remaining filled with the filling of the Spirit, is God's answer to sobering you up in a world
of drunks driving down the road of life.
There it is again.....
Then comes the consequences, so noted.

Psa 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,315
252
83
Take a deep breath. You are sounding desperate.
You're the one grasping at straws when you say that Calvinism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Way. Do you have something to back up that straw man statement?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,812
8,305
113
Using 1 John 1:9, and remaining filled with the filling of the Spirit, is God's answer to sobering you up in a world of drunks driving down the road of life.
Works for me. Definitely.

In fact I notice that when I become distracted from the Word, I start feeling a little tipsy.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,810
412
83
You're the one grasping at straws when you say that Calvinism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Way. Do you have something to back up that straw man statement?
Calvinism as many today believe it to be, believes that Jesus is the FORCED way.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,810
412
83
Works for me. Definitely.

In fact I notice that when I become distracted from the Word, I start feeling a little tipsy.
Most likely tipsy from low "blood of Christ" sugar...

Matthew 4:4

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”


.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,315
252
83
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit .
Hebrews 4:12

Why was the body not mentioned?
Here's a wild and crazy idea: Because all sin proceeds from within us and not from without us (e.g. the skin that hangs off our bones).
The focus of scripture is clearly on the inner man (sin nature and the heart), not the outer, visible parts of man. There's nothing sinful about our skin. BUT...the INSIDE of us is a completely different story. Jesus dwells in believers' hearts not in or under their skin (Eph 3:16).
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,812
8,305
113
Most likely tipsy from low "blood of Christ" sugar...

Matthew 4:4

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”


.
Amen.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,810
412
83
Here's a wild and crazy idea: Because all sin proceeds from within us and not from without us (e.g. the skin that hangs off our bones).
The focus of scripture is clearly on the inner man (sin nature and the heart), not the outer, visible parts of man. There's nothing sinful about our skin. BUT...the INSIDE of us is a completely different story. Jesus dwells in believers' hearts not in or under their skin (Eph 3:16).
Its not just skin... it is also the hormones and electrical brain impulses that were short circuited by the fall of Adam, causing us not able to will to do what is right, for our bodies never can reveal to us what would be right.