Understanding God’s election

[cv5]

So then you agree that the sons of men cannot will a change of their essence (nature), anymore than God can change his? And you agree that the physically dead cannot will to do anything? If so, how do you make a leap from that kind of inability to ascribe all manner of spiritual ability to the spiritually dead?

This refutes every Calvinite dogma there ever was.....

Luk 15:18
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

Luk 15:20
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

======================================================================================

So does this.....
I am sure you do not know why. Which is also why you are a Calvinite.

2Ki 6:5
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.

2Ki 6:6
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.

2Ki 6:7
Therefore said ("COMMANDED") he (the Man of God aka the God Man) , Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.

 

[MeowFlower]

This refutes every Calvinite dogma there ever was.....

Luk 15:18
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

Luk 15:20
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

======================================================================================

So does this.....
I am sure you do not know why. Which is also why you are a Calvinite.

2Ki 6:5
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.

2Ki 6:6
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.

2Ki 6:7
Therefore said ("COMMANDED") he (the Man of God aka the God Man) , Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.

Rufus isn't Calvinist.
That question he asked about changing our human nature is just one proof.

 

[Genez]

Just goes to prove many who think that know nothing about Calvinism.

And,. when put to the fire.
No Calvinist can explain irresistible grace.
They just flip to the same talking point you just gave.


EXPLAIN irresistible grace!!!!!!

 

[rogerg]

And,. when put to the fire.
No Calvinist can explain irresistible grace.
They just flip to the same talking point you just gave.


EXPLAIN irresistible grace!!!!!!

God, solely of His own volition, giving someone life eternal as a free gift apart from their deserving of it nor by their causing it.

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

 

[Rufus]

Its not just skin... it is also the hormones and electrical brain impulses that were short circuited by the fall of Adam, causing us not able to will to do what is right, for our bodies never can reveal to us what would be right.

Pure conjecture on your part. The Fall of mankind, while impacting the whole man in terms of how the sin nature was passed on by Adam to all his progeny, doesn't change the fact that the great emphasis in scripture is on the immaterial parts of man -- his essence and his heart. There's not one text in scripture that says that man's body is evil -- a heresy that the Gnostics believed. Conversely, there's no shortage of scriptures that teach that man's nature and heart are evil!

So, tell me, Mr. Genez, did Jesus carry around in his body sinful "hormones and electrical brain impulses that were short circuited by the the fall...?

 

[Rufus]

And,. when put to the fire.
No Calvinist can explain irresistible grace.
They just flip to the same talking point you just gave.


EXPLAIN irresistible grace!!!!!!

For starters, get up to speed up on the unilateral, unconditional New Covenant promises in Jer 31, 32 and Ezek 36. For example, when God declares that he will give his covenant people a new heart, whose going to prevent him from performing his will?

 

[Rufus]

This refutes every Calvinite dogma there ever was.....

Luk 15:18
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

Luk 15:20
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

======================================================================================

So does this.....
I am sure you do not know why. Which is also why you are a Calvinite.

2Ki 6:5
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.

2Ki 6:6
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.

2Ki 6:7
Therefore said ("COMMANDED") he (the Man of God aka the God Man) , Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.

You're assuming in the Prodigal Parable that no grace was working in the prodigal's life. You're assuming that the prodigal came to his spiritual senses all under his own power. You're assuming that the prodigal wasn't made willing by God's power. Conversely, Jesus taught that "apart from me you can do NOTHING!" Makes perfectly good sense when we're dealing with spiritually dead people.

 

[MeowFlower]

And,. when put to the fire.
No Calvinist can explain irresistible grace.
They just flip to the same talking point you just gave.


EXPLAIN irresistible grace!!!!!!

God is Sovereign.

 

[cv5]

You're assuming in the Prodigal Parable that no grace was working in the prodigal's life. You're assuming that the prodigal came to his spiritual senses all under his own power. You're assuming that the prodigal wasn't made willing by God's power. Conversely, Jesus taught that "apart from me you can do NOTHING!" Makes perfectly good sense when we're dealing with spiritually dead people.

What is it about "I WILL" that is making you froth at the mouth?

 

[Genez]

God, solely of His own volition, giving someone life eternal as a free gift apart from their deserving of it nor by their causing it.

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

That does not explain irresistible grace.

 

[Genez]

Pure conjecture on your part. The Fall of mankind, while impacting the whole man in terms of how the sin nature was passed on by Adam to all his progeny, doesn't change the fact that the great emphasis in scripture is on the immaterial parts of man -- his essence and his heart. There's not one text in scripture that says that man's body is evil -- a heresy that the Gnostics believed. Conversely, there's no shortage of scriptures that teach that man's nature and heart are evil!

So, tell me, Mr. Genez, did Jesus carry around in his body sinful "hormones and electrical brain impulses that were short circuited by the the fall...?

No.. Jesus did not. For the woman's ovum does not carry the defective genes for the sin nature.

That is why we find Genesis 3:15 written as it was.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, ​

and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise ​

thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.​

The ancients did not refer to an offspring as the seed of a woman,
but of the seed of the man.

A woman's ovum does not pass on the fallen nature.
The man's sperm does.
That is why Jesus could have no human father, but alright with a human mother!

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, ​

and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— Romans 5:12​

That is why sin entered the world by one man, even though the woman was the first sinner.

 

[Genez]

God is Sovereign.

So that tells us what irresistible grace is???!

Sovereignty means He chose to allow for certain believers to believe irrational ideas after they were saved, and still keeps them saved because of having believed in Jesus Christ.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No.. Jesus did not. For the woman's ovum does not carry the defective genes for the sin nature.

This is preposterous. Mary's genes were as defective as Joseph's were.

 

[Genez]

This is preposterous. Mary's genes were as defective as Joseph's were.

Not her Ovum..... Unfertilized ovum.

Look up Genesis 3:15?

And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; ​

He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”​

​

​

"Her seed == the ovum. "​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

"Her seed == the ovum. "

Her seed means Christ

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Here are examples of seed of women. Ovum is not seed btw

And let thy house be like the house of Pharez, whom Tamar bare unto Judah, of the seed which the LORD shall give thee of this young woman. Ruth 4:12​

​

And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home. 1 Samuel 2:20​

​

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17​

 

[HeIsHere]

At least a more interesting discussion than the un-biblical lottery system of salvation.

 

[Genez]

Her seed means Christ

Yes.....That is true. As in, after that seed was fertilized with the required genetic DNA material supplied by the Holy Spirit.

Do you understand how sexual reproduction normally works?

 

[Genez]

Here are examples of seed of women. Ovum is not seed btw

And let thy house be like the house of Pharez, whom Tamar bare unto Judah, of the seed which the LORD shall give thee of this young woman. Ruth 4:12​

​

And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home. 1 Samuel 2:20​

​

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17​

Word usage determines meaning. It can also mean "offspring."
Especially, when it was a man (Boaz) who was being addressed.


And all the people who were at the gate, and the elders, said, “We are witnesses.
The Lord make the woman who is coming to your house like Rachel and Leah,
the two who built the house of Israel; and may you prosper in Ephrathah and
be famous in Bethlehem. May your house be like the house of Perez, whom
Tamar bore to Judah, because of the offspring which the Lord will give you
from this young woman.”



Ruth 4:11-12

New King James Version

 

[Magenta]

God is Sovereign.

Some don't like that... and complain bitterly about it...