Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Three things: First I absolutely disagree with the part I highlighted. The LACK of Faith/Trust that A&E had in God is the underpinning of the entire post-Fall story! If they had trusted God, they would not have disobeyed him! Their lack of faith is what led to their disobedience just as the lack of Israel's faith in the wilderness resulted in their disobedience (Heb 3:16-19).
Secondly, I strongly disagree with your take on the sin covering. You seem to be saying that faith was not a necessary component to having their sins forgiven and covered. If so, this would be a totally unprecedented means of salvation; for the just shall live by faith! I am reluctant to buy into any theory or hypothesis that is unprecedented in scripture due to the judicial principle that is stated in the OT and NT (2Cor 13: 1), which also rightly serves as a hermeneutical principle that requires interpreters to seek the affirmation of other relevant passages. Even Noah believed God about the pending judgment of the world and his obedience to God's commands issued from that faith.
And the third reason I disagree is because God, in his infinite wisdom, provided strong evidence that Eve was a woman of faith. God's gracious provision in the animal skin coverings certainly covered her sins; but we're also supposed to believe that it covered Adam's in spite of all the negative things taught about him and the lack of any biblical evidence that he came to saving faith?
Secondly, I strongly disagree with your take on the sin covering. You seem to be saying that faith was not a necessary component to having their sins forgiven and covered. If so, this would be a totally unprecedented means of salvation; for the just shall live by faith! I am reluctant to buy into any theory or hypothesis that is unprecedented in scripture due to the judicial principle that is stated in the OT and NT (2Cor 13: 1), which also rightly serves as a hermeneutical principle that requires interpreters to seek the affirmation of other relevant passages. Even Noah believed God about the pending judgment of the world and his obedience to God's commands issued from that faith.
And the third reason I disagree is because God, in his infinite wisdom, provided strong evidence that Eve was a woman of faith. God's gracious provision in the animal skin coverings certainly covered her sins; but we're also supposed to believe that it covered Adam's in spite of all the negative things taught about him and the lack of any biblical evidence that he came to saving faith?
It is truly a shame you Calvinists cannot discuss scripture without what appears to be a great urgency to denigrate and insult those who accurately point out the flaws in a human being, Calvin in this case. My statement is not false and your great horror at admitting Calvin is flawed in any way, is duly noted.
I do not know what you say it pleased God to do. But I do know it pleased God to send His only Son to die for sinners when the time was right. It also pleased God to deal with His Son as a sacrifice for human kind.
Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:10
That, is in the Bible. Your personal experience and persuasion is not. It might be good if you did not seem to indicate that God involved Himself with you in such a manner as to certify Calvinism to others, when it is plain that scripture gives no such support.
I do not know what you say it pleased God to do. But I do know it pleased God to send His only Son to die for sinners when the time was right. It also pleased God to deal with His Son as a sacrifice for human kind.
Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. Isaiah 53:10
That, is in the Bible. Your personal experience and persuasion is not. It might be good if you did not seem to indicate that God involved Himself with you in such a manner as to certify Calvinism to others, when it is plain that scripture gives no such support.
Faith is always a component of faith, but every illustration in the Bible is not designed to teach every truth. What is being highlighted is blood for remission of sin and imputed righteousness as a covering. Both were applied by God to Adam in my opinion in the animal blood shed and covering given.
Notice: neither Adam or Eve were involved until all the work was done and only in the application.
Notice: neither Adam or Eve were involved until all the work was done and only in the application.
Huh??? "Faith is always a component of faith"???
Also, Faith is a huge component in the Creation account because as stated earlier, if A&E had BELIEVED God (like Abraham did), they would not have sinned! Their lack of faith was not only sinful but the physical manifestation of the absence thereof was also sinful.
But A&E were involved after God addressed them and clothed them. And we find clear evidence that Eve had the requisite faith but zero evidence for Adam.
And not only would God covering the sin of faithless Adam be unprecedented but so would the salvation of the entire human race be (which A&E constituted) as equally unprecedented! Scripture everywhere teaches that God saves a remnant of mankind. Yet, now we're to believe that God saved 100% of the earth's human population right after A&E sinned? Again, I think it's very unwise to buy into theories or speculations that have no prior precedence in scripture.
Also, Faith is a huge component in the Creation account because as stated earlier, if A&E had BELIEVED God (like Abraham did), they would not have sinned! Their lack of faith was not only sinful but the physical manifestation of the absence thereof was also sinful.
But A&E were involved after God addressed them and clothed them. And we find clear evidence that Eve had the requisite faith but zero evidence for Adam.
And not only would God covering the sin of faithless Adam be unprecedented but so would the salvation of the entire human race be (which A&E constituted) as equally unprecedented! Scripture everywhere teaches that God saves a remnant of mankind. Yet, now we're to believe that God saved 100% of the earth's human population right after A&E sinned? Again, I think it's very unwise to buy into theories or speculations that have no prior precedence in scripture.
Which goes against the grain of the preponderance of evidence that is contrary to your belief.
Here's something else that would be unprecedented if your theory is true: Show me any saint in the bible of whom the the scripture speaks purely and only in negative terms? We have many types of Christ in scripture. Show me one other that the bible speaks of only in negative terms.
Your theory just leaves far too many unprecedented truths. Too big of a horse pill for me to swallow.
Here's something else that would be unprecedented if your theory is true: Show me any saint in the bible of whom the the scripture speaks purely and only in negative terms? We have many types of Christ in scripture. Show me one other that the bible speaks of only in negative terms.
Your theory just leaves far too many unprecedented truths. Too big of a horse pill for me to swallow.