Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

Did Adam reject the Lord after the Lord shed blood to give him animal skins to cover himself with?
Adam had faith to the extent faith was known at that time..

Quit with your unsubstantiated, empty claims, already. There's not one text in the bible that speaks positively about Adam or that Adam was a believer.

Besides, if Adam was this great man of faith, why does the bible teach that we don't want to die in Adam? And why isn't Adam the spiritual father of the human race instead of Abraham -- who was in fact a man of faith!? And why was Adam excluded from the decree that God made to the Serpent in Gen 3:15? And why is Eve conspicuously absent in Gen 3:22-24?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Quit with your unsubstantiated, empty claims, already. There's not one text in the bible that speaks positively about Adam or that Adam was a believer.

It's not a matter of scripture, it's a matter of spiritual dullness.

 

[Rufus]

The seed of the woman is Christ. No one is ever spoken of as in Eve. I believe Adam was saved and in Christ. Same as Eve.
Second, I don't see anyone as a super saint. No reason to make unwarranted attributions. If I don't overly esteem Abraham who has a body of acts, I certainly wouldn't esteem Adam who has a limited number.
As far as God not able to be with sinful enemies, Satan seems to have had access to heaven until shortly before the cross. What do you make of that?

Christ is the ultimate seed but not the only seed, no more than the Serpent had only one seed. Is not the devil the enemy of all God's people to this day!?

And while no one is ever spoken "as in Eve", neither does scripture teach that it's perfectly okay to be in Adam -- after all...all in Adam DIE (1Cor 15:22) -- contrast that with all in Christ LIVE!

It boggles my mind that so many here seem to think that it's perfectly okay to be contrasted with our Redeemer and Savior. Maybe it's a kool fad that has never lost its veneer? I for one would never want my life characterized as being being the polar opposite of Jesus'.

Satan, as part of God's divine counsel, had limited access to God after He DROVE him out of heaven! But that access doesn't mean that he entered back into heaven itself, or more specifically in to the highest heaven which is where God dwells. And of course, all access to God in the heavenly realm ceased after the Cross because Satan no longer had any legitimate legal complaint against against God's elect, since Jesus satisfied God's perfect justice.

Also, there is this:

Ps 15:1-5
15:1 A psalm of David.

LORD, who may dwell in your sanctuary?Who may live on your holy hill?
2 He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous,who speaks the truth from his heart 3 and has no slander on his tongue,who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellowman, 4 who despises a vile man but honors those who fear the LORD,who keeps his oath even when it hurts, 5 who lends his money without usury and does not accept a bribe against the innocent.
He who does these things will never be shaken.
NIV

Or this....

Ps 24:3-6
3 Who may ascend the hill of the LORD?
Who may stand in his holy place?
4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not lift up his soul to an idol
or swear by what is false.
5 He will receive blessing from the LORD
and vindication from God his Savior.
6 Such is the generation of those who seek him,
who seek your face, O God of Jacob.
NIV

I get the feeling that Satan wasn't exactly renting a mansion in heaven between the time he was driven out and the Cross of Christ.

 

[ocean]

Perhaps you might tell us ...
the main reason why you don't believe in Calvinism?

Perhaps you might tell us why Calvinists follow Calvin and the Bible says to follow the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[ocean]

Calvinism is the Gospel, I witness the Gospel.

That would be close to heresy in most books. Unless you repent of your beliefs, you are against the actual gospel. You may believe you are saved by Jesus but to continually claim Calvinism is the gospel is anti-gospel. This is really a very serious problem with certain Calvinists. I don't care if you believe in tulip, but to call Calvinism the actual gospel is truly anti-Christ as far as the actual gospel, the gospel of Jesus, is concerned.

You do not know what kind of trespass you are committing.

 

[Rufus]

Having known the nature of the Lord from his previous sinless state, gave Adam the advantage of having no hesitation to wanting to be restored to what he had lost in relationship to the Lord.

In contrast to Adam. Man is born into a world of lies that will distract and draw one away from seeking the Lord immediately.
Adam immediately wanted to be right back in the Lord's realm = faith = giving him imputed righteousness.

More foolish speculations! Don't you know that it's a serious sin to ADD to God's Word? So many of you keep adding your personal assumptions, presuppositions, pipe dreams, etc. to the Word instead of exegeting it to find out what it's teaching. There are more than few Pharisees in this thread!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The fall of man is a strategy and tactic of God, setting the stage for accomplishing his desire to make His enemies into His footstool.

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good…..
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ten generations later what he made very good and then gave to man man caused to be this

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭

man caused it

“And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods Will was what he told them that they not eat the fruit of good and evil they sinned and caused the degradation of creation it’s why he destroyed them and didn’t take the blame himself for causing this fall of creation from good to evil man caused it

 

[Cameron143]

Christ is the ultimate seed but not the only seed, no more than the Serpent had only one seed. Is not the devil the enemy of all God's people to this day!?

And while no one is ever spoken "as in Eve", neither does scripture teach that it's perfectly okay to be in Adam -- after all...all in Adam DIE (1Cor 15:22) -- contrast that with all in Christ LIVE!

It boggles my mind that so many here seem to think that it's perfectly okay to be contrasted with our Redeemer and Savior. Maybe it's a kool fad that has never lost its veneer? I for one would never want my life characterized as being being the polar opposite of Jesus'.

Satan, as part of God's divine counsel, had limited access to God after He DROVE him out of heaven! But that access doesn't mean that he entered back into heaven itself, or more specifically in to the highest heaven which is where God dwells. And of course, all access to God in the heavenly realm ceased after the Cross because Satan no longer had any legitimate legal complaint against against God's elect, since Jesus satisfied God's perfect justice.

Also, there is this:

Ps 15:1-5
15:1 A psalm of David.

LORD, who may dwell in your sanctuary?Who may live on your holy hill?
2 He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous,who speaks the truth from his heart 3 and has no slander on his tongue,who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellowman, 4 who despises a vile man but honors those who fear the LORD,who keeps his oath even when it hurts, 5 who lends his money without usury and does not accept a bribe against the innocent.
He who does these things will never be shaken.
NIV

Or this....

Ps 24:3-6
3 Who may ascend the hill of the LORD?
Who may stand in his holy place?
4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not lift up his soul to an idol
or swear by what is false.
5 He will receive blessing from the LORD
and vindication from God his Savior.
6 Such is the generation of those who seek him,
who seek your face, O God of Jacob.
NIV

I get the feeling that Satan wasn't exactly renting a mansion in heaven between the time he was driven out and the Cross of Christ.

Those Psalms were written by an adulterer and a murderer. Evidently there is hope for sinners.

 

[Rufus]

[QUOTE="Cameron143, post: 5400409, member: 314370"]Right. Complete doesn't mean without flaw. Neither does it mean there does not exist a better or higher estate. [/QUOTE]

Then tell me, please, is it not enough for Christ's disciples to be "complete" as their heavenly Father? Did Jesus' command leave some important detail(s) out?

Matt 5:48
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
NIV

And since you say that "complete doesn't mean without flaw", does that mean that your heavenly Father's state of completion is less than perfect.

"Complete" also denotes TOTAL, THOROUGH, ABSOLUTE. Isn't Jesus teaching that his disciples are to be as complete (perfect) in moral character as God is?

https://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5046&t=KJV

 

[Rufus]

Those Psalms were written by an adulterer and a murderer. Evidently there is hope for sinners.

He was also a saint a God-appointed king and a prophet of God . In fact...the "apple of God's eye" (Ps 17). So tell me: Were those Psalms that were written by an "adulterer and murderer" inspired by a holy God?

 

[Genez]

Quit with your unsubstantiated, empty claims, already. There's not one text in the bible that speaks positively about Adam or that Adam was a believer.

Besides, if Adam was this great man of faith, why does the bible teach that we don't want to die in Adam? And why isn't Adam the spiritual father of the human race instead of Abraham -- who was in fact a man of faith!? And why was Adam excluded from the decree that God made to the Serpent in Gen 3:15? And why is Eve conspicuously absent in Gen 3:22-24?

You are really a pain.... You can not read what was said, and attribute things not said, to the one who wrote it.

You are like a main stream media interviewer.

Who said anything about Adam being a great man of faith?
What was said, was this...

Adam had faith to the extent faith was known at that time..

Very little faith was to be known.

You would be thrown off the lifeboat by everyone found on it after about a week of enduring your gaslighting.

+

 

[Genez]

More foolish speculations! Don't you know that it's a serious sin to ADD to God's Word? So many of you keep adding your personal assumptions, presuppositions, pipe dreams, etc. to the Word instead of exegeting it to find out what it's teaching. There are more than few Pharisees in this thread!

Oh! Wow...
I am writing a play. I have a perfect part for you to play.
Don't worry. You only have to act naturally... like you do here.

 

[Cameron143]

[QUOTE="Cameron143, post: 5400409, member: 314370"]Right. Complete doesn't mean without flaw. Neither does it mean there does not exist a better or higher estate.

Then tell me, please, is it not enough for Christ's disciples to be "complete" as their heavenly Father? Did Jesus' command leave some important detail(s) out?

Matt 5:48
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
NIV

And since you say that "complete doesn't mean without flaw", does that mean that your heavenly Father's state of completion is less than perfect.

"Complete" also denotes TOTAL, THOROUGH, ABSOLUTE. Isn't Jesus teaching that his disciples are to be as complete (perfect) in moral character as God is?

https://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5046&t=KJV[/QUOTE]
The word perfect in Matthew 5:48 doesn't carry the sense of without flaw. This doesn't mean that God isn't without flaw. It simply means that flawlessness is not the emphasis of the passage.
This conversation has come a long way from the simple fact that God never looked at creation and said...it's perfect. He didn't. He said...it's good and very good.

 

[Cameron143]

He was also a saint a God-appointed king and a prophet of God . In fact...the "apple of God's eye" (Ps 17). So tell me: Were those Psalms that were written by an "adulterer and murderer" inspired by a holy God?

Sure they were inspired. But you make my point for me. God is very merciful to sinners.

 

[brightfame52]

That would be close to heresy in most books. Unless you repent of your beliefs, you are against the actual gospel. You may believe you are saved by Jesus but to continually claim Calvinism is the gospel is anti-gospel. This is really a very serious problem with certain Calvinists. I don't care if you believe in tulip, but to call Calvinism the actual gospel is truly anti-Christ as far as the actual gospel, the gospel of Jesus, is concerned.

You do not know what kind of trespass you are committing.

To be against Tulip is truly antichrist, for then you are against Salvation by Grace, Not good !

 

[ocean]

To be against Tulip is truly antichrist, for then you are against Salvation by Grace, Not good !

You have gone over the edge and crashed into the truth; with which you do not appear to agree. I think you may have been taught or perhaps studied for yourself, beyond your capability for comprehension.

 

[MeowFlower]

The fall of man is a strategy and tactic of God, setting the stage for accomplishing his desire to make His enemies into His footstool.

What enemies? When God created the stage in the beginning. When prior to that the heavens and this earth did not yet exist.

 

[MeowFlower]

To be against Tulip is truly antichrist, for then you are against Salvation by Grace, Not good !

I browse other Christian sites and their BDF's. Virtually all of them have member posts that condemn Calvinism and TULIP.

Some are Trolling of course. They goad Christians just to see how far we will go to prove them wrong. Or worse, plummet to their level.

Every one of those type goading posters that I've read prove one thing. They know nothing about the Reformed Doctrine and Calvinism.
However,they will accuse Calvinism every single time the Gospel itself arrives as a protracted discussion.

TULIP is the synopsis of everything Jesus taught about human nature and God's redemption plan.

You don't have to ascribe to Calvinism to be Christian. However, Calvanists are indeed in Christ.
And what is always overlooked by the anti-Calvianist proponents is, while the denomination does bear his name many others long before taught the same thing.

And too what is often overlooked is Jacobus Arminius and his ideology. Many opposed to Calvanizm are Arminians.

 

[MeowFlower]

No, satan's deceit was the catalyst. Eve was perfectly content to not eat the fruit until she let satan put doubt in her mind.

Satan had nothing to work with unless the fruit tree was there first.

 

[MeowFlower]

uh it actually was

Thank you.

I don't think you realize what that means.