Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

God elected us by sending Jesus to die for our sins,
God elected us by giving prophets and people to witness to us.
God elects us by giving the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin.
God elected us by giving us the word to know His will.
God elects us by sending trials and blessings.
God elected us by the witness of nature.
God elects us by the witness of people that love us.

But even with all of these gifts and witnesses to save us we are not forced to love God.

Forced love is not real. We have a choice.

So, you gave God permission to circumcise your heart so that you're able to love him (Deut 30:6)?

 

[Rufus]

If the process of salvation were God unilaterally choosing some and rejecting others, or God unilaterally making the necessary changes in a person to save them, and choosing not to make those changes in others, the expression "God's boundless love and mercy" would not accurately describe that process.

You'll never convince any saint of that whose life has been qualitatively changed! God's love in the heart of a believer is a life-changing, game-changing experience! But sadly you superficially view God's love only in the quantitative sense.

 

[Magenta]

So, you gave God permission to circumcise your heart so that you're able to love him (Deut 30:6)?

Deuteronomy 30 verse 6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 2 verse 12; Colossians 2 verse 13 When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

 

[Magenta]

Philippians 3 verse 3; Colossians 2 verse 11; Romans 2 verse 29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

 

[lrs68]

Indeed, the Law itself will not end until Heaven and earth pass. However, for those whom God had elected unto salvation - those whom God has placed under and will place under Christ - through Christ - and for them alone- the Law has ended; however, another Law exists and will continue to exist unto the end for the judgment of those not placed by God under the law of Christ.
The Law that should be taught is the law of Christ. That Law was fulfilled by Christ, and by fulfilling it, for His chosen, He satisfied all of the Law of the Law and the Prophets, and by so doing, has removed the requirement for them to do so. Therefore, by that, those laws can no longer be violated by them because they no longer exist for them. Those who do not teach the law of Christ, are teaching the violation of the law and prophets.

[Jhn 5:39 KJV]
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

[Mat 5:17, 20 KJV]
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. ...
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[Rom 10:3-4 KJV]
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[Rom 6:14 KJV]
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[Rom 8:2 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[1Co 15:56-57 KJV]
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Gal 3:10 KJV]
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

[Gal 4:21-26 KJV]
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

[Gal 5:18 KJV]
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

[Phl 3:9 KJV]
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

[Heb 7:11 KJV]
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

[Heb 1:3 KJV]
3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[Heb 10:8-10, 12, 14 KJV]
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. ...
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; ...
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point however I made is the fact that the LAW is still in effect until Heaven and earth pass away.

Thank You for acknowledging that Biblical fact

 

[Cameron143]

The point however I made is the fact that the LAW is still in effect until Heaven and earth pass away.

Thank You for acknowledging that Biblical fact

What is the place of the law for believers?

 

[lrs68]

What is the place of the law for believers?

To understand the process that God took throughout mankind's history to see how Believers were separated from the rest of humanity.

It also gives us more detail about who Jesus Christ is.

 

[Cameron143]

To understand the process that God took throughout mankind's history to see how Believers were separated from the rest of humanity.

It also gives us more detail about who Jesus Christ is.

Romans 6:14 says we are not under the law. What does that mean?

 

[Rufus]

There's another aspect to Deut 1:39 that I didn't comment on adequately yesterday. Unconditional Election is certainly in the passage and brings to mind another Pauline passage:

Rom 9:19-23
19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath — prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
NIV

Deut 1:39 offers a great example of the truths stated above! Were not all the Israelities in the wilderness one and the same lump of clay?

And did not God bear "with great patience" the objects of his wrath -- those of the first generation of the Exodus who were constantly rebelling, complaining and grumbling against God because they lacked faith?

Yet...God did not leave himself without any witnesses on this earth. Was He not merciful to the offspring of the above mentioned rebellious generation? Were they not objects of his mercy since he decreed that they would occupy the Land? Did not God freely and sovereignly demonstrate his mercy and compassion upon those offspring?

Rom 9:15-16
15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
ESV

As I pointed out last night, the offspring of the rebellious evildoers -- those who had no knowledge of good and evil -- had zero input into their spiritual destiny. These were helpless, vulnerable, weak children whom God freely chose to take under his wing to save!

 

[Mem]

The point however I made is the fact that the LAW is still in effect until Heaven and earth pass away.

Thank You for acknowledging that Biblical fact

It exists to drive sinners to Christ and, once in Christ, the law can no longer touch them.

 

[Rufus]

Romans 6:14 says we are not under the law. What does that mean?

That should be an interesting answer... I wonder if he knows that no one is justified by the works of the law?

 

[lrs68]

Romans 6:14 says we are not under the law. What does that mean?

Understanding the meaning and teaching the LAW is in no way shape or sound claiming Followers of Jesus Christ are bound by the LAW.

The Law itself being given to a select sect of people only means those people lived a life different than the rest of humanity in the world.

In fact, it's no different than how those who follow Jesus Christ are living a life different than the rest of humanity in our current world.

 

[Cameron143]

Understanding the meaning and teaching the LAW is in no way shape or sound claiming Followers of Jesus Christ are bound by the LAW.

The Law itself being given to a select sect of people only means those people lived a life different than the rest of humanity in the world.

In fact, it's no different than how those who follow Jesus Christ are living a life different than the rest of humanity in our current world.

Ok. So...what does it mean that a believer is no longer under the law?

 

[TMS]

So, you gave God permission to circumcise your heart so that you're able to love him (Deut 30:6)?

It is God that does the work in my heart and it is God that recreates an new heart within me.
But I need to surrender my heart to God..

My personal experience is that when I give my heart to God (fully surrender) and ask Him for help, I recieve His.
But if I ask and don't give my heart fully to God, then the change does not come.

All glory to God for the change and work..

Back to the verse... Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

God was promising to do this great work in the heart and the seeds heart but what happened after a few generations.

Did God fail to fulfill His promise or did the people fail to give their hearts to the Lord. ??

 

[Rufus]

The point however I made is the fact that the LAW is still in effect until Heaven and earth pass away.

Thank You for acknowledging that Biblical fact

On the other hand, the Mosaic Covenant of Law is obsolete and gave way to the New Covenant (Heb 8:13). Pouring new wine (NC) into old wineskins (OC) will never work (Mat 9:17)!

 

[lrs68]

Ok. So...what does it mean that a believer is no longer under the law?

It means we are under a better Covenant.

 

[lrs68]

On the other hand, the Mosaic Covenant of Law is obsolete and gave way to the New Covenant (Heb 8:13). Pouring new wine (NC) into old wineskins (OC) will never work (Mat 9:17)!

It doesn't make the Law irrelevant because it explains God's ultimate Mercy and Grace within the Two Covenants. In both Covenants the people are separated from the rest of the world and marked by God as His Chosen.

 

[Cameron143]

It means we are under a better Covenant.

A covenant of grace?

 

[lrs68]

A covenant of grace?

Both Covenants are God's Grace and Mercy being poured out upon His Chosen people.