Understanding God’s election

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Dec 14, 2018
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Revelation 13:17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the
beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight
calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666.
I like the parts of the Bible that say things in this manner. I kind of see them as logic puzzles. I know they used to take the Palo Hebrew alphabet and use numbers to calculate names. I think numbers and letters were the same. Just distinguished by the context they were being used.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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I like the parts of the Bible that say things in this manner. I kind of see them as logic puzzles. I know they used to take the Palo Hebrew alphabet and use numbers to calculate names. I think numbers and letters were the same. Just distinguished by the context they were being used.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ is a highly symbolic hotly debated book written in
an apocalyptic literature style not very well understood in today's day and age.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Don't you know that everyone believes by the efficacious power of God's grace (Jn 6:28-29;
Act 13:16; 15:9; 18:27; Rom 12:3; Eph 2:8-10; 1Tim 1:14; 1Pet 1:3-5; 2Pet 1:3-4; 1Cor 4:7)?

John 6 verses 28-29 ~ “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
Thank you for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .:)
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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I agree that we have been given the ability to make decisions - to function in this world that we have been placed in. But turning to God in faith, in our own strength, is not something that natural man is capable of!
The ability to turn to God in faith is granted to us wholly by the grace of God.

No one debates that point.

Where the conflict occurs is when one commences the Christian life in Christ, starts walking the walk.

That is when the battle commences; the flesh wars against the spirit, resisting temptation, etc.

I seriously doubt that there are many Christians out there who have ever won that battle.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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The ability to turn to God in faith is granted to us wholly by the grace of God.

No one debates that point.

Where the conflict occurs is when one commences the Christian life in Christ, starts walking the walk.

That is when the battle commences; the flesh wars against the spirit, resisting temptation, etc.

I seriously doubt that there are many Christians out there who have ever won that battle.
Overcoming temptation should be happening at increasing rates for every Christian.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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GOD can describe himself anyway He wants. I describe him as the loving almighty God who graced me with salvation. Putting adjectives on God can be a slippery slope. Imo
So, calling God a "holy" God (Job 24:19; Isa 5:16; 1Sam 6:20) can be a "slippery slope", can it ?
 

Rufus

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Ignore?

I provided the first 4 immediate possibilities according to majority of Bible Concordances and that means the first mentioned options normally is what the verse means.

According to you it's the last options mentioned later because that's the only way it fits your personal doctrine.
Quit lying about what I said. I never said it was the last option -- but only one of several! What determines the definition of any term in scripture is context. Here is how BLBCLASSIC.ORG lists their eight definitions, since you're evidently too lazy to look it up or you just want to ignore the site:

  1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
  2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
  3. the world, the universe
  4. the circle of the earth, the earth
  5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
  6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
  7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
    1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
  8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
    1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc) https://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2889&t=ESV Your usage for Jn 3:16 is number 5 on the above list.

 

Inquisitor

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Overcoming temptation should be happening at increasing rates for every Christian.
So have you won the battle Cameron?

Have you confessed Jesus knowing that persecution will follow?

Have you gone the extra mile on all occasions?

Have you been frank and honest at all times?
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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So have you won the battle Cameron?

Have you confessed Jesus knowing that persecution will follow?

Have you gone the extra mile on all occasions?

Have you been frank and honest at all times?
No one has at all times or on all occasions (Eccl 7:20). So, does this mean the Body of Christ is totally bereft of pious, God-fearing, God-loving, God-honoring believers?
 

Inquisitor

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All the time. I interpret all scripture through the lens of the eternal New Covenant. Don't you know that in the scheme of progressive revelation the NT is concealed in the OT and that OT is revealed in the New?
When the scripture tells you to seek the higher gifts like prophecy.

Do you read the scripture and only the scripture or do you ignore the Lord's commandment?

Tell the truth Rufus?
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Overcoming temptation should be happening at increasing rates for every Christian.
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how would he make them free who believed in Him ?

“If ye continue in my word, ….ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. “

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember he’s not saying servants as in against thier Will but he’s been talking about if we choose to serve sin unto death that’s who’s servant we are or if we choose to serve obedience into righteousness we also can serve that

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”

We used to yield to and serve sin it because we obeyed the doctrine that sets people free now we yield to righteousness just like we used to yield to sin

“I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have ( past tense ) yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;

even so now ( present tense ) yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can change and actually start overcoming the world of we pay attention to the gospel Jesus preached promise of freedom and salvation . It’s not instant but a lifetime walk wheras we mature and grow up

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Some are babes yet and thats okay but as you said we need to press forward in all areas sin is deadly we still need to overcome the enemy it’s just that now we are empowered to do it because Christ is in us this doesn’t excuse us but enables us and leaves us with no excuse to keep sinning and not repent
 

Rufus

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I think when you changed emperor Nero into numbers it came up with that.
You think rightly! This is one of several pieces of strong internal evidence that supports a much earlier dating of Revelation (pre 70 A.D.) than most in the Church believe.
 

Inquisitor

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No one has at all times or on all occasions (Eccl 7:20). So, does this mean the Body of Christ is totally bereft of pious, God-fearing, God-loving, God-honoring believers?
To a great extent, yes!

If you want to be honest, Rufus.

In the work place it is very rare to ever hear a Christian proclaim the Lord's name, very rare.

How many Christians have you ever known that spend days in prayer?
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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When the scripture tells you to seek the higher gifts like prophecy.

Do you read the scripture and only the scripture or do you ignore the Lord's commandment?

Tell the truth Rufus?
I don't understand your question or its connection to what I said about progressive revelation. Care to clarify?