Understanding God’s election
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It's 2 different things. One deals with God not being a respecter of persons, and the other the warning of Paul as to how the Christian should live.
Not being a respecter of persons is ancillary to the warning Paul is giving and one would need to do a broader study to fully understand its meaning. As far as the warning goes, Paul is often found exhorting those in the faith to live in particular fashions. The book of Hebrews alone contains 5 such warnings to remain faithful in the ways of God in the face of persecution. It is the nature of of sheep to stray, and some respond only to fear and not compassion, as written by Jude...22-23.
Not being a respecter of persons is ancillary to the warning Paul is giving and one would need to do a broader study to fully understand its meaning. As far as the warning goes, Paul is often found exhorting those in the faith to live in particular fashions. The book of Hebrews alone contains 5 such warnings to remain faithful in the ways of God in the face of persecution. It is the nature of of sheep to stray, and some respond only to fear and not compassion, as written by Jude...22-23.
“It's 2 different things. One deals with God not being a respecter of persons, and the other the warning of Paul as to how the Christian should live. “
its only two things if you make it that dontou. Price those marks between the statements ? : and this ; ? Look into what those mean
aid you try to read one half of a sentance at a time like that it won’t ever make sense
you might even look further ahead in the context and realize how the gospel ties to what he’s saying and how valuable it is…
Look here how this fits into what Paul’s saying in Roman’s 2
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-2 KJV
now for the sake of our talk bro imagine everything isn’t predestined and no one’s chosen but just look at what Paul’s saying now in line with the judges words in the gospel
“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile > : < ( this connects it to what he’s saying part of the same statement he’s just made about those who do good ) for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:1, 3-11 KJV
But do you understand what he’s saying more now ? He’s speaking to sinners in the church who are judging and condemning other sinners telling them they need to repent because they too are going to be judged and if they continue and won’t repent they’re going to condemn themselves .
otnosnt aboit being perfect in our works it’s about believing the thing Jesus said in the gospel and trusting him for when we face judgement . James agrees also in a different wording
“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For ( this connects what he’s about to say to what he’s saying ) he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:12-13 KJV
In other words james and Paul are both preaching this same principle regarding judgement
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-2 K
Paul teaches it more here
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
Romans 14:10-13 KJV
We are all going to be judged by our deeds Jesus taught us that because we’re all already sinners and imperfect , of we are merciful to those who offend us and sin against us he will be merciful to us come this day
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
aim Roman’s 2 there brother Paul isnt preaching perfect works and deeds he’s teaching the church the gospel principles such as “judge not others and you will not be judged “ be merciful and you will receive mercy forgive and you will be forgiven don’t condemn others and you won’t be condemned “……said the lord and judge
It’s way better to read what they are saying and learn from it . “ Grace “ is reciprocal God has been gracious to us and now he commands tbat we be gracious to others in his name oir judgement depends on how we treat others
because we’re all going to have to answer for our deeds we need to act in the law that gives freedom the law of Christ that’s based upon mercy and truth
its only two things if you make it that dontou. Price those marks between the statements ? : and this ; ? Look into what those mean
aid you try to read one half of a sentance at a time like that it won’t ever make sense
you might even look further ahead in the context and realize how the gospel ties to what he’s saying and how valuable it is…
Look here how this fits into what Paul’s saying in Roman’s 2
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-2 KJV
now for the sake of our talk bro imagine everything isn’t predestined and no one’s chosen but just look at what Paul’s saying now in line with the judges words in the gospel
“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile > : < ( this connects it to what he’s saying part of the same statement he’s just made about those who do good ) for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:1, 3-11 KJV
But do you understand what he’s saying more now ? He’s speaking to sinners in the church who are judging and condemning other sinners telling them they need to repent because they too are going to be judged and if they continue and won’t repent they’re going to condemn themselves .
otnosnt aboit being perfect in our works it’s about believing the thing Jesus said in the gospel and trusting him for when we face judgement . James agrees also in a different wording
“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For ( this connects what he’s about to say to what he’s saying ) he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:12-13 KJV
In other words james and Paul are both preaching this same principle regarding judgement
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-2 K
Paul teaches it more here
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
Romans 14:10-13 KJV
We are all going to be judged by our deeds Jesus taught us that because we’re all already sinners and imperfect , of we are merciful to those who offend us and sin against us he will be merciful to us come this day
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
aim Roman’s 2 there brother Paul isnt preaching perfect works and deeds he’s teaching the church the gospel principles such as “judge not others and you will not be judged “ be merciful and you will receive mercy forgive and you will be forgiven don’t condemn others and you won’t be condemned “……said the lord and judge
It’s way better to read what they are saying and learn from it . “ Grace “ is reciprocal God has been gracious to us and now he commands tbat we be gracious to others in his name oir judgement depends on how we treat others
because we’re all going to have to answer for our deeds we need to act in the law that gives freedom the law of Christ that’s based upon mercy and truth
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I avoid your passages because your foundational premise is unbiblical. God does nothing that is random or arbitrary.
But I'm glad you quoted the Rom 2 text because GWH was NOT ABLE to provide me with what the basis would be for divine favoritism when God chooses many to be saved instead of all. Maybe you can do better than GWH has?
Quit flattering yourself! Your wild, inane claims are not on par with what the bible actually teaches.
But I'm glad you quoted the Rom 2 text because GWH was NOT ABLE to provide me with what the basis would be for divine favoritism when God chooses many to be saved instead of all. Maybe you can do better than GWH has?
Quit flattering yourself! Your wild, inane claims are not on par with what the bible actually teaches.
Another lie! Did God deal with Egypt "the exact same way" he dealt with Abraham's descendants whom he rescued out of Egypt? Did He deal the "exact same way" with Ishmael as he dealt with Issac? Or what about Jacob and Esau: He dealt with both of them in "the exact same way"? Or did God deal with Adam the same way he dealt with Eve right after the Fall? 
Anyone ever tell you that you're a horrible apologist for FWT?
Anyone ever tell you that you're a horrible apologist for FWT?
“I avoid your passages because your foundational premise is unbiblical.”
yeah I shouldn’t use bibke passages and then say “ look see what it says ?” Pretty unbiblical stuff there
you avoid scripture because you don’t want to hear it so you claim it’s unbiblical which seems sort of bizarro world to me but I’m alright with whatever you choose to believe everyone has that god given choice to make
yeah I shouldn’t use bibke passages and then say “ look see what it says ?” Pretty unbiblical stuff there
you avoid scripture because you don’t want to hear it so you claim it’s unbiblical which seems sort of bizarro world to me but I’m alright with whatever you choose to believe everyone has that god given choice to make
Another lie! Did God deal with Egypt "the exact same way" he dealt with Abraham's descendants whom he rescued out of Egypt? Did He deal the "exact same way" with Ishmael as he dealt with Issac? Or what about Jacob and Esau: He dealt with both of them in "the exact same way"? Or did God deal with Adam the same way he dealt with Eve right after the Fall?
Anyone ever tell you that you're a horrible apologist for FWT?
Anyone ever tell you that you're a horrible apologist for FWT?
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11 NIV
a you not being able to acknolwedge what he’s saying doesn’t change anything for me partner I believe what it says
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life “
thats true
“But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;”
Romans 2:8-9 NIV
thats also true
“but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:10-11 NIV
also true . You can rail
On but it’s not going to change what’s there you can’t acknowledge it . I’m sorry for you but I believe what’s there
ypuWon’t even aconolwedge what’s there to discuss it. So feel free to rail on about me and what I don’t understand but I agree with what’s written in the Bible plainly and clearly I’ll stick with believing what’s there . And move on to people who can at least acknowledge something that is coming from the Bible quoted clearly and plainly like what Paul’s saying above there why is he wrong about it again ? Is Paul wrong because “ I have some unbiblical view ?” That changes what Paul wrote lol ?
Absolutely unbiblical! You cannot provide one biblical text that says that God treats all men w/o exception 'the exact same way". Or that he treats them all equally. Your "theology" is totally man-made.
Nor can you pick up GWH's slack and prove his premise that God plays favorites if he elects many to be saved but leaves most to die in their sins. What would the basis of such favoritism: That some unregenerate sinners are more righteous than others?
And I'd bet my last dollar that you would not be able to pick up Studier's slack either re Jer 13:23. He could not give me a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the rhetorical question the prophet asked in part "a" of the above passage. What about you: Can you give a straight answer...AND then explain the analogous connection between the entities in "a" and "b"?
All FWT objections are totally drummed up by corrupt imaginations.
Nor can you pick up GWH's slack and prove his premise that God plays favorites if he elects many to be saved but leaves most to die in their sins. What would the basis of such favoritism: That some unregenerate sinners are more righteous than others?
And I'd bet my last dollar that you would not be able to pick up Studier's slack either re Jer 13:23. He could not give me a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the rhetorical question the prophet asked in part "a" of the above passage. What about you: Can you give a straight answer...AND then explain the analogous connection between the entities in "a" and "b"?
All FWT objections are totally drummed up by corrupt imaginations.
Absolutely unbiblical! You cannot provide one biblical text that says that God treats all men w/o exception 'the exact same way". Or that he treats them all equally. Your "theology" is totally man-made.
Nor can you pick up GWH's slack and prove his premise that God plays favorites if he elects many to be saved but leaves most to die in their sins. What would the basis of such favoritism: That some unregenerate sinners are more righteous than others?
And I'd bet my last dollar that you would not be able to pick up Studier's slack either re Jer 13:23. He could not give me a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the rhetorical question the prophet asked in part "a" of the above passage. What about you: Can you give a straight answer...AND then explain the analogous connection between the entities in "a" and "b"?
All FWT objections are totally drummed up by corrupt imaginations.
Nor can you pick up GWH's slack and prove his premise that God plays favorites if he elects many to be saved but leaves most to die in their sins. What would the basis of such favoritism: That some unregenerate sinners are more righteous than others?
And I'd bet my last dollar that you would not be able to pick up Studier's slack either re Jer 13:23. He could not give me a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the rhetorical question the prophet asked in part "a" of the above passage. What about you: Can you give a straight answer...AND then explain the analogous connection between the entities in "a" and "b"?
All FWT objections are totally drummed up by corrupt imaginations.
Absolutely unbiblical! You cannot provide one biblical text that says that God treats all men w/o exception 'the exact same way". Or that he treats them all equally. Your "theology" is totally man-made.
Nor can you pick up GWH's slack and prove his premise that God plays favorites if he elects many to be saved but leaves most to die in their sins. What would the basis of such favoritism: That some unregenerate sinners are more righteous than others?
And I'd bet my last dollar that you would not be able to pick up Studier's slack either re Jer 13:23. He could not give me a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the rhetorical question the prophet asked in part "a" of the above passage. What about you: Can you give a straight answer...AND then explain the analogous connection between the entities in "a" and "b"?
All FWT objections are totally drummed up by corrupt imaginations.
Nor can you pick up GWH's slack and prove his premise that God plays favorites if he elects many to be saved but leaves most to die in their sins. What would the basis of such favoritism: That some unregenerate sinners are more righteous than others?
And I'd bet my last dollar that you would not be able to pick up Studier's slack either re Jer 13:23. He could not give me a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the rhetorical question the prophet asked in part "a" of the above passage. What about you: Can you give a straight answer...AND then explain the analogous connection between the entities in "a" and "b"?
All FWT objections are totally drummed up by corrupt imaginations.
What I said well what I quoted is what Paul’s saying God will judge everyone the same way
Bit you can’t acknolwedge it . Here you go
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11 NIV
airs a waste of my time you won’t acknolwedge anything you’ll just continue to argue against things I haven’t even said about n order to avoid what I have shared from the Bible with you . It’s just wasting my time and I’m too old to do that
Yes...you "acknowledge" with totally irrelevant passages. You do this to distract and deflect from any narrowly-focused topic that makes you squirm. You think you can throw any bible text against the barn wall and it will stick. This is because no one at your church, or any of your favored FWT theologians ever taught you how to think for yourself. All you have in your grab bag of tricks are their stupid talking points which you so willingly parrot!
Who says "they" can't? You and your crew are the only ones looking at this topic like this. We preach daily it's not us that save but God, you are the people that put salvation squarely at the feet of men and what they choose. You're so deluded that you just seem to be lost and blind at this point, from my perspective.
You misrepresent and lie about what others believe so much, you are so far off reality in so many ways, that you look much more like a child of the flesh than a son of the Creator. There's no talking to you, there is no finding common ground with you, you're dishonest, dismissive, and ignorant of the truth and the things of the Spirit. I've never met anyone like you in real life, but I honestly don't believe you'd speak to someone in person the way you do on here. You spend a lot of time trying to divide the body, why? I can see no reason other than to divide the body. This is COMPLETELY anti-Christ. I never really saw you like this before, I really just saw you as someone I disagreeed with and had a VERY different perspective than, but today for some reason I just see your whole comment style and arguments as a whole a 100% wicked and anti-Christ. I pray God draws you to truth, but I will not ever waste another second on your childish and straight up satanic mission here. Have a great day.
You misrepresent and lie about what others believe so much, you are so far off reality in so many ways, that you look much more like a child of the flesh than a son of the Creator. There's no talking to you, there is no finding common ground with you, you're dishonest, dismissive, and ignorant of the truth and the things of the Spirit. I've never met anyone like you in real life, but I honestly don't believe you'd speak to someone in person the way you do on here. You spend a lot of time trying to divide the body, why? I can see no reason other than to divide the body. This is COMPLETELY anti-Christ. I never really saw you like this before, I really just saw you as someone I disagreeed with and had a VERY different perspective than, but today for some reason I just see your whole comment style and arguments as a whole a 100% wicked and anti-Christ. I pray God draws you to truth, but I will not ever waste another second on your childish and straight up satanic mission here. Have a great day.
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I'm asking questions! Are you saying my questions are wrong? That I shouldn't be asking them?
YOU are the one avoiding real answers! And I'll prove it to you. Since you think you're such a hot-shot with the bible, why don't you tackle my questions that I asked you about the rhetorical question the prophet asked in Jer 13:23a and then after you give me the "yes" or "no" answer, explain how that answer impacts the analogy the prophet made with Israel in "b" part of the passage.
YOU are the one avoiding real answers! And I'll prove it to you. Since you think you're such a hot-shot with the bible, why don't you tackle my questions that I asked you about the rhetorical question the prophet asked in Jer 13:23a and then after you give me the "yes" or "no" answer, explain how that answer impacts the analogy the prophet made with Israel in "b" part of the passage.
I'm asking questions! Are you saying my questions are wrong? That I shouldn't be asking them?
YOU are the one avoiding real answers! And I'll prove it to you. Since you think you're such a hot-shot with the bible, why don't you tackle my questions that I asked you about the rhetorical question the prophet asked in Jer 13:23a and then after you give me the "yes" or "no" answer, explain how that answer impacts the analogy the prophet made with Israel in "b" part of the passage.
YOU are the one avoiding real answers! And I'll prove it to you. Since you think you're such a hot-shot with the bible, why don't you tackle my questions that I asked you about the rhetorical question the prophet asked in Jer 13:23a and then after you give me the "yes" or "no" answer, explain how that answer impacts the analogy the prophet made with Israel in "b" part of the passage.
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The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)
BTW, I'm all for rejecting many resources, but there has to be exegetical strength and reason to do so and to prove an alternative. You just don't show any.
This is not so much for you because you exhibit too many signs of being a lost cause for getting to truth other than being a great resource for what the Text does not say or mean. For this I thank you while also praying for your healing.
NKJ John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
NKJ Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
NKJ Rom:1:17-18 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just (upright, righteous) shall live by faith." 8 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
One of the keys to Romans is this dual underlying message that Hebrews speaks about and Jesus spoke of when He was dealing mainly with Israel when He was on earth. There have been men of Faith - those who believe in God - at least since Abel even though all were under sin.
What Paul is discussing includes this truth and it needs to be tracked in his letter. I've not forgotten this, and you've never understood it. You really need to jettison your very odd obsession with the nothingness of man.
Re: what Paul has to say about idolatry in the NC Writings: Yes, idolatry is an issue for the unbelieving/unrighteous whom he is distinguishing in Rom1, and something to be cautious of for men of Faith as he also deals with in his other writings. Yet there are and always have been men of Faith - who believe in God - at least since Abel because God has made himself known to the minds, consciences, will, and belief of His creatures - mankind. This foundational truth is part of Paul's presuppositional thinking and is an underlying truth in Paul's writings.
Again, you simply prove what you don't know. Your nothingness of man presupposition has blinded you to the chagrin of part of your sect and others.
______________________________________
So, re: Jer10:14, bottom line is you reject and ignore context, analysis of a Bible translation team, and commentary from John Calvin whose TULIP you've borrowed in order to fight for and modify for your bizarre nothingness of man focus. At least we're getting to know you better and highlighting how you're your own mess.
BTW, I'm all for rejecting many resources, but there has to be exegetical strength and reason to do so and to prove an alternative. You just don't show any.
This is not so much for you because you exhibit too many signs of being a lost cause for getting to truth other than being a great resource for what the Text does not say or mean. For this I thank you while also praying for your healing.
NKJ John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
NKJ Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
NKJ Rom:1:17-18 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just (upright, righteous) shall live by faith." 8 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
One of the keys to Romans is this dual underlying message that Hebrews speaks about and Jesus spoke of when He was dealing mainly with Israel when He was on earth. There have been men of Faith - those who believe in God - at least since Abel even though all were under sin.
What Paul is discussing includes this truth and it needs to be tracked in his letter. I've not forgotten this, and you've never understood it. You really need to jettison your very odd obsession with the nothingness of man.
Re: what Paul has to say about idolatry in the NC Writings: Yes, idolatry is an issue for the unbelieving/unrighteous whom he is distinguishing in Rom1, and something to be cautious of for men of Faith as he also deals with in his other writings. Yet there are and always have been men of Faith - who believe in God - at least since Abel because God has made himself known to the minds, consciences, will, and belief of His creatures - mankind. This foundational truth is part of Paul's presuppositional thinking and is an underlying truth in Paul's writings.
Again, you simply prove what you don't know. Your nothingness of man presupposition has blinded you to the chagrin of part of your sect and others.