Understanding the End of Days

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Joseppi

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Jan 4, 2018
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Note that Luke 21:20-24 is a prophecy that doesn"t correspond to Matthew 24.
The "days of vengeance" against the unbelieving nation of Israel is not a end of days prophecy.
 

abcdef

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Mar 30, 2016
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Note that Luke 21:20-24 is a prophecy that doesn"t correspond to Matthew 24.
The "days of vengeance" against the unbelieving nation of Israel is not a end of days prophecy.
Hi Joseppi,

Matt 24, Mk 13, and Lk 21, are all parallel passages that tell about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad. yes?
 

Joseppi

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Jan 4, 2018
887
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An important difference between between Luke 21:20-24 and Matthew 24, is that the in 70ad the abomination spoken of by Daniel wasn't seen then.

We are told "let the reader understand" in Matthew because, misunderstanding the book of Daniel is a problem for many readers of it and of Matthew 24.
Which is a understanding I'm desiring to share.

There are two phrases required to express the purpose and meaning of the abominstion that shall stand.
The abomination of desolation...and...the abomination that maketh desolate.

The "abomination of desolation" refers to desolation causing. abomination.

Whereas, "the abomination that maketh dedolate" speaks about how the abomination causes desolation.

The desolation of men's hearts led to the desolation of the temple which then led to the desolation of the land.

Desolation is the emptying of place of the presence of God, which means Jesus is not present in the heart.
There can be no fellowship with God without the presence of Jesus Christ.
There can be no presence of Jesus without faith in him.
So, when the nation rejected Jesus they rejected God and their hearts were left empty, and then the temple and then their land.
That emptimess of not believing Jesus is the cause of the abomination. Which is to say, idolatry will rise up and stand in the heathen temple, the heart of the reprobate.
The idolatry will by force of godless nature lead to tje erecting of a blasphemous image of god. For heathen naturally walk by sight and not by faith. And so an image of man shall become the premiere idol.

However, by means of technology the heathen idolatry can be globalizedb such that, the abomination is used to make desolate other hearts.

It is the Devil's snare.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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An important difference between between Luke 21:20-24 and Matthew 24, is that the in 70ad the abomination spoken of by Daniel wasn't seen then.
The abomination was the image of Caesar in the temple as god, supreme god.

Matt 24 and Lk 21, are almost exactly word for word the same.

Matt 24, history or future?

So Lk 21:20-24, history or future?

We are told "let the reader understand" in Matthew because, misunderstanding the book of Daniel is a problem for many readers of it and of Matthew 24.
Which is a understanding I'm desiring to share.

There are two phrases required to express the purpose and meaning of the abominstion that shall stand.
The abomination of desolation...and...the abomination that maketh desolate.

The "abomination of desolation" refers to desolation causing. abomination.

Whereas, "the abomination that maketh dedolate" speaks about how the abomination causes desolation.

The desolation of men's hearts led to the desolation of the temple which then led to the desolation of the land.

Desolation is the emptying of place of the presence of God, which means Jesus is not present in the heart.
There can be no fellowship with God without the presence of Jesus Christ.
There can be no presence of Jesus without faith in him.
So, when the nation rejected Jesus they rejected God and their hearts were left empty, and then the temple and then their land.
That emptimess of not believing Jesus is the cause of the abomination. Which is to say, idolatry will rise up and stand in the heathen temple, the heart of the reprobate.
The idolatry will by force of godless nature lead to tje erecting of a blasphemous image of god. For heathen naturally walk by sight and not by faith. And so an image of man shall become the premiere idol.
Caesar, Man is god.

However, by means of technology the heathen idolatry can be globalizedb such that, the abomination is used to make desolate other hearts.

It is the Devil's snare.
Heathen idolatry was always, and will always be the majority.

It is not the planet, it is the world of Israel. Everything revolves around Jesus, Israel, and Jerusalem.
 

Joseppi

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Jan 4, 2018
887
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Luke 21:12 But before these things....

Note that the events described in Luke 21 come before the signs of the beginning of sorrows.

Before the nations rise against nations, and the kingdoms against kingdoms, and before the great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in divers places.

Whereas, in Matthew the events come after the beginning of sorrows events.
 

abcdef

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Mar 30, 2016
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Luke 21:12 But before these things....

Note that the events described in Luke 21 come before the signs of the beginning of sorrows.

Before the nations rise against nations, and the kingdoms against kingdoms, and before the great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in divers places.

Whereas, in Matthew the events come after the beginning of sorrows events.
Lk 21:5-7, 2 questions..........Matt 24:3, 3 questions

Lk 21:8, false Christs/teachers....Matt 24:4-5 false Christs/teachers

Lk 9-11, wars, earthq's, etc.......Matt 24:6-8 wars, earthq's

Lk 12-19, the persecution of the apostles....Matt 24:8-14 Persecution of the apostles

Lk 20-24, the destruction of Jerusalem 70 ad...Matt 24:15-22 The dest of Jeru 70 ad

Lk 25-33, a description of the coming of Jesus to destroy Jerusalem (Not a resurrection coming, the second coming unto salvation is yet to come.)

Matt 24:22-51 A description of the dest of Jerusalem and the times of the gentiles.

-----

There were only 4 apostles present Mk 13:3, so the events and prophecies pertained to them, especially John,

That would be, the events leading up to and including the dest of Jeru., and the times of the gentiles beginning.

So these prophecies cannot be fulfilled at a future time, because the apostles are all dead (this generation).
 

Joseppi

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Jan 4, 2018
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The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet results in...
"For then there shall be great tribulationb such as was not since the beginning of the world to this timeb no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:21-22.

But in Luke 21:20..."when you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with armies..."
The result is not the great tribulation, but is instead...
"the desolation thereof" of the city.
The command to "depart out" of the land of Judaean
The command "let not them that are in the countries enter therein."
The fulfillment of the "days of vengeance."
"great distress in the land"
"wrath upon this people."
The Israelites "being led away captive into all nations."
The Israelites falling by "the edge of the sword."
And Jerusalem being "trodden down until the times of the gentiles are fufilled."

All things local and applicable only to the unbelieving Israelites.

Whereas, the time of the end is a time of global distress of the whole earth.
The things that happened to unbelieving Israelites in and about 70ad was effected by God's vengeance against them which they deserved lawfully to be punished with as was predicted.

The desolation of Jerusalem, the desolation of the land of Israel, and the slaughter of some, with the captivity of the rest of the unbelieving, was not the great tribulation greater than any tribulation since the beginning of the world until now.
For one thing, the flood of Noah was a global catastrophy that destroyed the world that then was.
That one event was far greater than anything unbelieving Jews went through in the days of the early church.

And please consider how easily the Israelites could've avoided the days of vengeance.

No, the "days of vengeance" don't compare to the "great tribulation" which tribulation is against "all flesh" and not the flesh of unbelieving Jewish people only.

As we further discuss understanding the end of days signs and prophecies I will try and point often at all the proofs of global size events and signs.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet results in...
"For then there shall be great tribulationb such as was not since the beginning of the world to this timeb no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:21-22.
The world, is the world of Israel, in Daniel. At that time, the world known to Babylon.

In Matt it is still the world of Israel, but it is the known world of Israel at that time, revolving around Jerusalem.

The trib was after the dest of Jeru 70 ad until 1967.

If Hitler had not been stopped, there would be no Israel left on the planet (flesh).

There will never be another time like the last 1900 years for Israel.

The trib ended when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.


But in Luke 21:20..."when you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with armies..."
The result is not the great tribulation, but is instead...
"the desolation thereof" of the city.
The command to "depart out" of the land of Judaean
The command "let not them that are in the countries enter therein."
The fulfillment of the "days of vengeance."
"great distress in the land"
"wrath upon this people."
The Israelites "being led away captive into all nations."
The Israelites falling by "the edge of the sword."
And Jerusalem being "trodden down until the times of the gentiles are fufilled."

All things local and applicable only to the unbelieving Israelites.
Whereas, the time of the end is a time of global distress of the whole earth.
The whole earth of Israel.

The things that happened to unbelieving Israelites in and about 70ad was effected by God's vengeance against them which they deserved lawfully to be punished with as was predicted.
True


The desolation of Jerusalem, the desolation of the land of Israel, and the slaughter of some, with the captivity of the rest of the unbelieving, was not the great tribulation greater than any tribulation since the beginning of the world until now.
Your description fits the trib. of 70 ad-1967.


For one thing, the flood of Noah was a global catastrophy that destroyed the world that then was.
Noah's world.


That one event was far greater than anything unbelieving Jews went through in the days of the early church.
Jesus compares the events of Noah's flood to the dest of Jeru, so it is a fair comparison.

And please consider how easily the Israelites could've avoided the days of vengeance.
True, true.


No, the "days of vengeance" don't compare to the "great tribulation" which tribulation is against "all flesh" and not the flesh of unbelieving Jewish people only.
No flesh would be saved, in Matt 24 is Israel the elect, not gentiles.


As we further discuss understanding the end of days signs and prophecies I will try and point often at all the proofs of global size events and signs.
I believe that some events are showing the end of the planet,

But they revolve around Israel and Jerusalem.
 

Deade

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Dec 17, 2017
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The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet results in...
"For then there shall be great tribulationb such as was not since the beginning of the world to this timeb no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:21-22.

But in Luke 21:20..."when you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with armies..."
The result is not the great tribulation, but is instead...
"the desolation thereof" of the city.
The command to "depart out" of the land of Judaean
The command "let not them that are in the countries enter therein."
The fulfillment of the "days of vengeance."
"great distress in the land"
"wrath upon this people."
The Israelites "being led away captive into all nations."
The Israelites falling by "the edge of the sword."
And Jerusalem being "trodden down until the times of the gentiles are fufilled."

All things local and applicable only to the unbelieving Israelites.

Whereas, the time of the end is a time of global distress of the whole earth.
The things that happened to unbelieving Israelites in and about 70ad was effected by God's vengeance against them which they deserved lawfully to be punished with as was predicted.

The desolation of Jerusalem, the desolation of the land of Israel, and the slaughter of some, with the captivity of the rest of the unbelieving, was not the great tribulation greater than any tribulation since the beginning of the world until now.
For one thing, the flood of Noah was a global catastrophy that destroyed the world that then was.
That one event was far greater than anything unbelieving Jews went through in the days of the early church.

And please consider how easily the Israelites could've avoided the days of vengeance.

No, the "days of vengeance" don't compare to the "great tribulation" which tribulation is against "all flesh" and not the flesh of unbelieving Jewish people only.

As we further discuss understanding the end of days signs and prophecies I will try and point often at all the proofs of global size events and signs.
Hi Joseppi,

How can you say Luke 21 is not the same occurrence as Matt. 24?

Luke 21:25-27: “ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. The sea and the waves roaring; and then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” This is not in the past as you claim as it is the Lord's return.

Yours, Deade
 
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louis

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Nov 1, 2017
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Hi Joseppi,

How can you say Luke 21 is not the same occurrence as Matt. 24?

Luke 21:25-27: “ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. The sea and the waves roaring; and then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” This is not in the past as you claim as it is the Lord's return.

Yours, Deade
I'm glad to see someone else with good common sense resoning, who when scriptures clearly indicate something has yet to occur, then realizes these events were not for the 1st century AD.
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
Luke 21, matthew 24 and mark 13, are all about the same end time signs .
its the same as the seals in revelation .

many people in this thread are ascribing their own ideas, to the passages . the rest of the bible should define this, and in the prophecy. Not us .
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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Luke 21, matthew 24 and mark 13, are all about the same end time signs .
its the same as the seals in revelation .

many people in this thread are ascribing their own ideas, to the passages . the rest of the bible should define this, and in the prophecy. Not us .
Exactly, and the generation who witnesses the calamities described in Luke 21, Matthew 24, and Mark 13, shall not pass away before the end of the current world order passes and the world sees the sign of the Lord in the heavens.

Matthew 24:30 [FONT=&quot]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.[/FONT]
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
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Deade,
The passage you quoted comes after the Luke 21:20-24 section.
Again notice that the end of days is recognizable in its global view.
Note:
"Upon the earth distress of nstions"
"men's hearts" (not only Israelite men's hearts)
"things which are coming on the earth"
"sea and waves roaring"
"Son of man coming"

And the earlier passages referring to the signs of the beginnibg of sorrows are global and occur in our time.

But the section that speaks of local judgments of Israel for rejecting their Messiah with unbelief, comes "before those things.".
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
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The abomination that maketh desolate is the artificially intelligent robot, image of the beast, that Satan shall have stand in the holy place of the temple.

The reason for the utter speed demanded when attempting to escape the revealing of the image of the beast, and the rapid issuance of it's mark of the beast as described in Matthew 24 is due to the beast man idol being electronically in charge of the global beast system. (Which is being installed worldwide, and prepared to be set up even now)

The Jews in Jerusalem at that moment won't have the time to return to their houses from off their own roofs, much less have the time to cross a field to get their things.

Why? Because it is the snare set to ensnare all the inhabitants of the earth who have faith.

And, the system of the beast will know who isn't home watching and waiting to receive the mark.
For the command will go forth from the beast idol to mark all inhabitants of the earth with the Satan's legal mark of his ownership.

But beginning in Jerusalem on that day of the broadcast the Jews that aren't in their homes as commanded to be, will be rapidly rounded up.

For they are the Devil's most immediate threat, given that they are the ones who are the possible REMNANT that will call on Jesus to come in the name of the LORD and save them
as Zechariah 14 shows,

When they call on their Savior, Jesus Christ, then he will come witjout delay and all his saints with him.
 

louis

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Nov 1, 2017
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An image has many meanings.
In its most simple construct, an image can represent a statue, or a painting.
A more precise definition of an image, however, is what one perceives something to be.
When the little horn sets up an image to the beast, he is advocating the beasts system into peoples minds.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
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Louis,
Yes, it is true that "image" has deep connotations.
But, I find that there exists two opposing notions of image.

Man was made in the image of God.
However, Jesus taught us what that in truth means. For, Jesus is "the express image of God."
And there are two reasons why this so.
One is that Jesus dwells in the bosom of his Father as he revealed when speaking to Nicodemus in the gospel of John. And as he explained, this means that he is qualified to speak with perfect knowledge of God.
The second reason is that Jesus is faithful.
Which means he not only is qualified and able but is obedient in expressing Father"s will and personality. Thusb if you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father.
And by express image is mean"t that Jesus in every way expresses the Father, his manner of speech, his patienceb his sacrifice, his faith, his authority, his power, his fearlessness etc.
That is....the love of God.

And we should ourselves be the express image of Jesus.

That is the true notion of image.

But, the devilish and carnal notion of image is merely a reflective kind that is seen
The natural man (the carnal) when reading the scriptures sees himself and uses God's word to make himself appear to be righteous and godly when the truth is that the natural man is wicked and vain.
The spiritual man looks unto Jesus as through a dark glass. But the natural man pretenses to look at Jesus as though in a mirror not a window.

For this reason tje word "image" unites the "I" with "Mage." That is, the carnal notion of image leads to MAGIC.
I mage.
And so, at Babel, soon after the flood of Noah, God found men seduced into seeking to focus on their heart's imagination. That is, they thought as one nation to focus in their hearts as one, upon doing their own will as though focusing on an image in their minds until it becomes visible in the world.

What I'm getting at is that in the end of days (this our day) the imagination of men's heart's is being incited by devils to bring forth the work that God stopped at Babel by his confounding creation of many languages.
Now all the science and technology of man is being used to instill images in collective mankind. And this will lead to delusion unto damnation.

This is occurring in all who forsake Jesus.
For we who follow Jesus look unto him and follow him by faith not by sight.

But, the world that rejects Christ is turned to only what they see, and even what they think they see.

Thus reprobate mankind focuses on images, rituals, hand signs, and magical use of words and phrases.

They will truly be seduced and enthralled by the terrible aspect of the beast man Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream, with it's gold head, silver chest and arms, brass abdomen, and legs of iron.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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Man was made in the image of God.
Good point.
God is a Spirit (John 4:24), and as such for us to made in His image represents other than what is seen physically by eyes.
So what is this image of God? God is love (1 John 4:8 & 16), and we therefore are made in the image of love, which is a spiritual perception.
Likewise, the image of the beast the people of earth will worship/love/adore will be their perception of what the beast's system represents, that will provide them with all the wonderful material goods their hearts desire, due to his causing craft/business to prosper (Daniel 8:24-25).
The system of the beast will transform the world into a hedonistic society as in the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37-38 & Luke 17:26-27).

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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The system of the beast will transform the world into a hedonistic society as in the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37-38 & Luke 17:26-27).


Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
And according to the following verses in Luke 17:28-29 society will also be as it was during the days of Lot in Sodom and Gommorrah. We already see a little increase in immorality today, but it will be significantly more increased when the system of the beast comes into play.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
 

Joseppi

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Jan 4, 2018
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And according to the following verses in Luke 17:28-29 society will also be as it was during the days of Lot in Sodom and Gommorrah. We already see a little increase in immorality today, but it will be significantly more increased when the system of the beast comes into play.

Luke 17:28-29 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
There is a great increase in ungodliness.
Things are changing rapidly because of the power inherent in media technologies.
But, not only is it rapid change, it is being orchestrated by the Devil, and evil spirits that know how short their time is.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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There is a great increase in ungodliness.
Things are changing rapidly because of the power inherent in media technologies.
But, not only is it rapid change, it is being orchestrated by the Devil, and evil spirits that know how short their time is.
I agree that the world is currently in the devils hands, but I do not believe we are yet at the moment where they have been cast to the earth, when the devil recognizing his time is short, empowers the beast with his power and enacts war against the saints as indicated in Daniel 7 & 8, and Revelation 12 & 13.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.