Unitarians and Islam

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Dec 22, 2018
53
18
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#1
Hi folks,
I'm a Buddhist, but I'm interested in understanding other faiths. I was reading the Quran today and have also looked a little at the Unitarians and the Christadelphians? (Hope I spelt that correctly.)
It seems to me that the non-trinitarians are not far from the view of The oneness of God in Islam.
Having read some of what Jesus said in the gospels... do they have a point?
When somebody called Jesus good, he rebuked them and said there was none good but God. He said we should love God with all our hearts... Maybe Paul got a bit too overenthusiastic in how he saw Jesus?
Are those who reject the Trinity correct?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
7,778
2,622
113
#2
You're asking Christians who believe in the validity of Scripture whether those who reject the Trinity are correct, and whether Paul was "a bit too overenthusiastic in how he saw Jesus"?

A firm No, to both questions.

The god of Islam is completely different from God Who revealed Himself in the Bible. Scripture (the 66 books of the Bible) teaches that God has a Son, but the Qu'ran teaches that Allah has no son, so they cannot be the same entity.
 

obedienttogod

Active member
Jan 3, 2019
453
156
43
#3
Hi folks,
I'm a Buddhist, but I'm interested in understanding other faiths.
Welcome, let's see if we can help give you some insight to what is troubling you from understanding.


I was reading the Quran today and have also looked a little at the Unitarians and the Christadelphians? (Hope I spelt that correctly.)
Interesting combination to conclude if something else intrigues you.



It seems to me that the non-trinitarians are not far from the view of The oneness of God in Islam.
That could be a logical assumption, since the traditions men kept from both the Muslim and Hebrew/Jew came from Abraham, who learned it from his great grandfather, Shem, in the presence of Noah.



Having read some of what Jesus said in the gospels... do they have a point?
Yep, that Yeshua is God in human form and He was there to stop the effectiveness of the Law.



When somebody called Jesus good, he rebuked them and said there was none good but God. He said we should love God with all our hearts... Maybe Paul got a bit too overenthusiastic in how he saw Jesus?
He replied in such a way because of who asked Him that, and in what mannerism they asked that.

And Paul, had one of those life changing epitome's of exactly who this Yeshua really was. He literally became awakened!!



Are those who reject the Trinity correct?
the Hebrew name Yeshua means Yahweh's Salvation (This is how Yeshua came to us in His Father's Name, because the meaning of His own NAME means His Father's Name and the Father's Purpose for Yeshua = Salvation.
Yeshua = Yahweh's Salvation

Then Yeshua said, He would send the Holy Spirit in His NAME (which is the Father's Name).

So by proxy, to baptize in the NAME of YESHUA, actually means Matthew 28:19, or In the NAME of the Father - the Son - the Holy Spirit
!!


There is only ONE GOD!!
the trinity and the Oneness both see ONE GOD with three distinct, separated/connected attributes. The term person is not biblical nor scriptural, but there is no doubt about the effectiveness of what God is, no matter what those specifics include.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
545
470
63
62
#4
It seems to me that the non-trinitarians are not far from the view of The oneness of God in Islam. Having read some of what Jesus said in the gospels... do they have a point?
Hi Meditator, generally speaking, knowing only "some" of what the Bible says is a big part of the problem of knowing what various verses/passages actually mean/teach. To understand/interpret the Bible properly, knowing the verses/passages you are studying in context is normally required (which often includes not only knowing the local context, chapter and book, but to one degree or another, knowing what the Lord says elsewhere, both directly or through the pen of the Prophets and Apostles, IOW, in the whole of the OT & NT).

An understanding of both historical context and usage, as well the meaning of certain words in their original languages, can be very important as well.

~Deut

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
3,518
643
113
#5
Hi folks,
I'm a Buddhist, but I'm interested in understanding other faiths. I was reading the Quran today and have also looked a little at the Unitarians and the Christadelphians? (Hope I spelt that correctly.)
It seems to me that the non-trinitarians are not far from the view of The oneness of God in Islam.
Having read some of what Jesus said in the gospels... do they have a point?
When somebody called Jesus good, he rebuked them and said there was none good but God. He said we should love God with all our hearts... Maybe Paul got a bit too overenthusiastic in how he saw Jesus?
Are those who reject the Trinity correct?
Hi you state you are Buddhist? Nirvana is what you are trying to achieve then why are you looking at two belief that goes together like oil and water? then you move to trinitarian and oneness from an Islamic prospective. Which you should know Islam was found after Christianity. So what is your point? being you stated, "I'm interested in understanding other faiths". Then why are you asking questions about one's faith? Are you trying to establish an oxymoron? Or are you a troll?
 
Dec 22, 2018
53
18
8
#6
Hi you state you are Buddhist? Nirvana is what you are trying to achieve then why are you looking at two belief that goes together like oil and water? then you move to trinitarian and oneness from an Islamic prospective. Which you should know Islam was found after Christianity. So what is your point? being you stated, "I'm interested in understanding other faiths". Then why are you asking questions about one's faith? Are you trying to establish an oxymoron? Or are you a troll?
What is wrong with me being interested in other people's religions, that might involve looking at similarities and differences.
Unitarians and Christadelphians consider themselves Christians, although their view on the Trinity is disputed. Why not mention Islam, as one of the main differences with Christianity seems to be the identity of Jesus.
I'm just interested in these things.
I'm not a troll, how come I keep getting accused of that on this site?
I'm not being rude to anybody, I'm the one getting trolled!
Give me a break please.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
3,518
643
113
#7
What is wrong with me being interested in other people's religions, that might involve looking at similarities and differences.
Unitarians and Christadelphians consider themselves Christians, although their view on the Trinity is disputed. Why not mention Islam, as one of the main differences with Christianity seems to be the identity of Jesus.
I'm just interested in these things.
I'm not a troll, how come I keep getting accused of that on this site?
I'm not being rude to anybody, I'm the one getting trolled!
Give me a break please.
I am not the one who asked a bunch of questions about others Faith after saying I did not want to know about others faith. So jump in my shoes for one moment and how would look to you if one said that after coming to a Christian site saying they were one a Buddhist and were nmot here to
What is wrong with me being interested in other people's religions, that might involve looking at similarities and differences.
Unitarians and Christadelphians consider themselves Christians, although their view on the Trinity is disputed. Why not mention Islam, as one of the main differences with Christianity seems to be the identity of Jesus.
I'm just interested in these things.
I'm not a troll, how come I keep getting accused of that on this site?
I'm not being rude to anybody, I'm the one getting trolled!
Give me a break please.
Please continue. I have misread your statement.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
434
307
63
#8
Mediator,
Our faith shows us Jesus is the Judge of all men. Paul wasn't being over enthusiastic about Jesus. No one could be too enthusiastic about Jesus.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
545
470
63
62
#9
Are those who reject the Trinity correct?
Hi again Meditator, the Trinity is a Biblical "mystery", the truth of which is gathered from many verses/passages in both the OT & New.

To "reject" the Trinity also means rejecting clear portions of the Bible, like the one I posited above from John 1, as well verses and passages like this one from Jesus at the very end of Gospel of Matthew.

Matthew 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

Jesus commands us to baptize in the 'singular' name (ὄνομα [onoma]) of God, and His name is: "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit". These are the three Members of the Godhead. The doctrine of the Trinity seeks to both circumscribe and safeguard this Biblical teaching (mystery), that there is One God who exists (from everlasting) as three distinct Persons. What the doctrine does not attempt to do is to 'explain' the Trinity to us, because such a thing is simply beyond any of us (at least on this side of the grave anyway).

~Deut
p.s. - here, in the presence of John the Baptist and others, we see all three Members of the Godhead together in this short passage.

Matthew 3
16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.
.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
434
307
63
#10
Here's the Trinity again,

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jn.14:23
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,702
203
63
#11
Hi folks,
I'm a Buddhist, but I'm interested in understanding other faiths. I was reading the Quran today and have also looked a little at the Unitarians and the Christadelphians? (Hope I spelt that correctly.)
It seems to me that the non-trinitarians are not far from the view of The oneness of God in Islam.
Having read some of what Jesus said in the gospels... do they have a point?
When somebody called Jesus good, he rebuked them and said there was none good but God. He said we should love God with all our hearts... Maybe Paul got a bit too overenthusiastic in how he saw Jesus?
Are those who reject the Trinity correct?
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, which some people do not believe it because God is bigger than that so how can a human manifestation be God.

God manifest in the flesh means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, which He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and has the Spirit without measure, and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness should dwell.

And the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God for He cannot be separated.

Which the man Christ Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty space where the Spirit is not at, but the man Christ Jesus walks though the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there, for the Spirit does not have to move for the Spirit is already there.

So Jesus is God, and human, and the man Christ Jesus the personal human body of God, which He laid down His life for us, and purchased the Church with His own blood, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

So Jesus could speak according to Him being God or man, and some people approached Him according to His deity, and some according to His humanity

The man that called Him good approached Him according to His humanity, and the man Christ Jesus gave glory to God by saying He is doing good for God is causing Him to do good, which He was always led of the Spirit of God so He would always be in accordance with true love, and caring about people, and God's holiness

But a person cannot believe in any God and say they are all compatible, and the same God, for without the truth of that God and displayed differently it would not be the same God.

No religion has better morals than Christianity, and hypocrites do not change Christianity, or void it out, but Christianity is the same regardless of how people act, and Jesus said the hypocrites do not belong to Him.

Islam does not put forth morality like Christianity in the Bible, nor does any other religion.

Which the Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And God said in the New Testament wars do not come from Him, but from people, and in the Old Testament He only went against those that would try to pervert Israel from the truth, or wipe them out, or if a nation, or kingdom, was too cruel against other people, and perverting His truth that extended too far, He would allow other nations to take them down.

Which if God had not intervened in the Old Testament more people would of been hurt, and killed, and people perverted from the truth.

God puts down a 1000 to save 10,000, and it is man that is cruel, not God, which is what king David said that God has mercy even when He punished Israel, but people do not.

Christianity is like no other religion, and no other religion compares even if they think they do, which we can see they do not, and not even Buddhism compares to the morality of Christianity, and like I said hypocrites do not belong to the Church, for only people that act like Christ are a Christian.

There is no such thing as a hypocritical christian, for a person cannot be a Christian and a hypocrite at the same time.

Christianity is to only go by their needs, and not their wants, and to help the poor and needy if possible.

Love your enemies, and feed and clothe your enemies.

When physically abused do not fight back physically, and when verbally abused do not fight back verbally.

Islam does not even compare to the God of the Bible, so they are not following the same God, for it is the characteristics that define God, not because people say they follow God, and then have different characteristics about him in which Islam believes in fighting for their religion.

Christianity does not need to fight physically for their kingdom is not of this world, which when they went to take Jesus He said He could call down 12 legions of angels to get Him out of the situation, for if His kingdom were of this world He would have His servants fight for it, but it is not so no need to fight for it, and God is in control, and the saints have spiritual life after this physical life, so they do not need to fight for this world is not their home.

The Roman Catholic Church, as well as others made the mistake of fighting physically for the kingdom of God, and persecuting, but they will only bow to save their skin, and not really mean it so it does no good.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The new age movement that has a false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and believe people can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment, and the evolutionary process, and love, and ascended master, and avatar, but not the final teacher, but the New Age Christ is the final teacher who will cause them to be greater, and spiritual, who honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power.

The nations will come together and try to establish peace on earth, and it will be international law that a man and woman cannot marry for population reduction, and to be a vegetarian.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age movement is the future for this sinful world in which they will rebel against God, and go against all people that go by the truth of the Bible, and then God will fight for them and end this sin business on earth.

The new age movement interprets all religions the same according to evolution including Buddhism.

They want people to believe that all religions have a compatible truth, and that they follow the same God, to get the world to harmonize to come together, for they do not believe the New Age Christ will appear until the nations come together as one to try to establish peace on earth, and harmonize.

In other words for the world, it is the beginning of the end, and God will fight like He did in the day of battle when they rebel against Him.

And God is love, and the world will think they are winning against Christianity, and will say where is your power, and where is your God, but they do not understand that God is allowing them to rebel, and allowing them to persecute the saints, which the New Age Christ by peace shall destroy many, and shall destroy the mighty and holy people physically.

God has allotted mankind a certain amount of time to take a people out of the world that chose to love God in the truth, and then He will put down the world, and end this sin business on earth, and salvation is offered no more.

And the time is close, and Jesus is the Savior of the world, for only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God, but no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself, God and man in harmony.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,797
294
83
#12
Hi folks,
I'm a Buddhist, but I'm interested in understanding other faiths. I was reading the Quran today and have also looked a little at the Unitarians and the Christadelphians? (Hope I spelt that correctly.)
It seems to me that the non-trinitarians are not far from the view of The oneness of God in Islam.
they are also not far from the Jews, the ones of the Hebrew bible, they believe in just one Most High.
 

Sipsey

Active member
Sep 27, 2018
163
73
28
#13
they are also not far from the Jews, the ones of the Hebrew bible, they believe in just one Most High.
Here is an interesting take;

IS TRINITY JEWISH?
But is such a concept Jewish? Is it not some Gentile or pagan concept that has somehow crept into our Holy Scriptures as some extreme liberalists would like to tell us? No, this was and still is a Jewish conception of God creating and dealing with His creation and His people Israel in a triune way. This quotation bears it out: Exodus 19 starts with the words, "In the third month." This is explained by the words of Proverbs 22:20, "Have I not written to thee excellent (Hebrew, threefold) things in counsels and knowledge." On this Rabbi Joshua bar Nehemiah said that this is the Torah whose letters are threefold, alf, bet, g(i)ml, and everything is a Trinity: The Torah is Trinitarian, for it is composed of the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings. The Mishna (talmudical learning) is a trinity composed of Talmud (learning) halakhot (daily Jewish laws) and haggadot (historical items). The mediator consisted of a trinity of Miriam, Moses, & Aaron. Prayers are a trinity of morning, afternoon, and evening prayers. Israel is a trinity consisting of priests, Levites and Israelites. The name Moses in Hebrew consists of three letters. He is of the tribe of Levi, which again is in the Hebrew three letters. from the seed of the Patriarchs who are a trinity of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; in the third month which is Sivan, after Nisan & Iyar on mount Sin whose letters are three as it is written. "And they rested in the wilderness of Sin.".(Midrash Tanhuma on Exodus 19)
If, according to our rabbis', God has made everything and arranged everything in a Trinitarian way. then it must also be Jewish and biblical to know that God, Himself is a Trinity. This He is and has manifested Himself as the Savior, Messiah, and Son of God in the person of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah. He then sent down the Holy Spirit, the Ruakh Hakodesh, on the Disciples in the third month, of the Feast of Shavuot, the feast of perfection, celebrated after counting seven times seven.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,797
294
83
#14
Here is an interesting take;

IS TRINITY JEWISH?
But is such a concept Jewish? Is it not some Gentile or pagan concept that has somehow crept into our Holy Scriptures as some extreme liberalists would like to tell us? No, this was and still is a Jewish conception of God creating and dealing with His creation and His people Israel in a triune way. This quotation bears it out: Exodus 19 starts with the words, "In the third month." This is explained by the words of Proverbs 22:20, "Have I not written to thee excellent (Hebrew, threefold) things in counsels and knowledge." On this Rabbi Joshua bar Nehemiah said that this is the Torah whose letters are threefold, alf, bet, g(i)ml, and everything is a Trinity: The Torah is Trinitarian, for it is composed of the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings. The Mishna (talmudical learning) is a trinity composed of Talmud (learning) halakhot (daily Jewish laws) and haggadot (historical items). The mediator consisted of a trinity of Miriam, Moses, & Aaron. Prayers are a trinity of morning, afternoon, and evening prayers. Israel is a trinity consisting of priests, Levites and Israelites. The name Moses in Hebrew consists of three letters. He is of the tribe of Levi, which again is in the Hebrew three letters. from the seed of the Patriarchs who are a trinity of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; in the third month which is Sivan, after Nisan & Iyar on mount Sin whose letters are three as it is written. "And they rested in the wilderness of Sin.".(Midrash Tanhuma on Exodus 19)
If, according to our rabbis', God has made everything and arranged everything in a Trinitarian way. then it must also be Jewish and biblical to know that God, Himself is a Trinity. This He is and has manifested Himself as the Savior, Messiah, and Son of God in the person of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah. He then sent down the Holy Spirit, the Ruakh Hakodesh, on the Disciples in the third month, of the Feast of Shavuot, the feast of perfection, celebrated after counting seven times seven.
if Jews have never practiced this teaching, and never will practice it, by definition it is non Jewish.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,212
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lawton ok
#15
Here is an interesting take;

IS TRINITY JEWISH?
if Jews have never practiced this teaching, and never will practice it, by definition it is non Jewish.
The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine | United ...
www.ucg.orgBible Study ToolsBookletsIs God a Trinity?
The statement also affirmed belief “in one holy, catholic [meaning in this context universal, whole or complete] and apostolic Church . . .” With this declaration in 381, which would become known as the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, the Trinity as generally understood today became the official belief and teaching concerning the nature of God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
7,297
1,529
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#16
Are those who reject the Trinity correct?
No. They are called HERETICS.

And Allah is not the same as the God of the Bible by any stretch (even though renegade Pope Francis is trying to promote that idea).

The deity of Christ and the Holy Trinity are fundamental Christian beliefs based upon the Bible.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,797
294
83
#17
No. They are called HERETICS.

And Allah is not the same as the God of the Bible by any stretch (even though renegade Pope Francis is trying to promote that idea).

The deity of Christ and the Holy Trinity are fundamental Christian beliefs based upon the Bible.
if it is so fundamental why were so many Christians killed for not believing it? did Jesus and the 12 have to kill people to make them believe?
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,797
294
83
#18
The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine | United ...
www.ucg.org
Bible Study ToolsBookletsIs God a Trinity?
The statement also affirmed belief “in one holy, catholic [meaning in this context universal, whole or complete] and apostolic Church . . .” With this declaration in 381, which would become known as the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, the Trinity as generally understood today became the official belief and teaching concerning the nature of God.
i dont thhnk the nicene and nicene const creeds are when the trinity officially became a doctrine. the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in either. i think this was just part of a process that still had a long ways to go. pretty sure it was at least 800s before it became an official doctrine. it was the 800s when they started burning people for it.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,212
2,287
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lawton ok
#19
if it is so fundamental why were so many Christians killed for not believing it? did Jesus and the 12 have to kill people to make them believe?
Because of original sin that insidiously festers along with tribalism. ego, pride and greed. Many that call themselves christians do it for social and or identity reasons. Many don't even read the bible and or haven't had a spiritual experience and the persecutors never got the gospel message at all.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,797
294
83
#20
Because of original sin that insidiously festers along with tribalism. ego, pride and greed. Many that call themselves christians do it for social and or identity reasons. Many don't even read the bible and or haven't had a spiritual experience and the persecutors never got the gospel message at all.
when i have questioons about things i just look to Jesus. Jesus was asked about false prophets teaching in His name, He said we could identify them by their fruits. is people being burned alive good fruit?