US taxes to support Israel

RachelBibleStudent · Aug 17, 2013

zone said:

regarding revelation 17:5-6...'drunken with the blood of saints and with the blood of the martyrs of jesus'...by the time revelation was written the romans had martyred far more christians than jerusalem...paul and peter among them... any reader would have thought about rome when they read about the blood of the martyrs...not jerusalem... this isn't to say that the harlot is rome...only to show that the biblical description of the harlot is not specific to jerusalem...since jerusalem isn't even the best fit...

regarding isaiah 1:21...the prophet called jerusalem a harlot around 800 BC...this does not prove that every reference to harlotry in scripture refers to jerusalem... harlotry in scripture stands for pagan idolatry as can be seen from numerous other passages...pagan idolatry was not even one of jerusalem's primary sins in AD 70...and many other cities were far more guilty of pagan idolatry...in fact most of the world was more idolatrous than jerusalem at that point...

regarding matthew 12:39...jesus says that an evil and adulterous -generation- asks for a sign...nothing is said about a -city- being adulterous... the generation being adulterous would again make it clear that this description is not specific to jerusalem...

RachelBibleStudent · Aug 17, 2013

zone said:

'whoever is troubling you'

you must have written a really deceptive letter to get that kind of response...

'oh poor innocent little me...being troubled by some mean person who says i should actually believe my church body's statement of faith before i go around innocently calling my neighbors fake christians and antichrists when they object to my innocent singling out of a single race for total condemnation...what ever shall i do?'

please...

perpetrator playing the victim...textbook sociopath behavior...

PennEd · Aug 17, 2013

To even entertain addressing this holocaust denial garbage is disgusting, hateful, and un-Christlike. Please don't give any credence or credibility to this person any longer. Think if you were the child or grandchild of one of the MILLIONS murdered by the Germans simply because you were Jewish, coming here reading about how your relatives weren't really starved, worked and then gassed to death. I don't understand how this type of hate is allowed to go on here on Christianchat. I pray my true brothers and sisters in Jesus would refrain from feeding this person any longer. God Bless you.

David_1 · Aug 17, 2013

I think the problem is the unquestionng support, the unthinking support of the American financed welfare handouts to Israel by US Christins and their belief that this has anything to do with being Christian. It's an invention by rich and powerful political groups. It's not a biblical commandment to finance and support the modern state of Israel.

You could also say, there is a big problem with American Christians not thinking for themself, instead they abdicate decision making to pastors and Republicans. The latter being the most selfish and corrupt group of humans on the planet.

News flash, Christianity does not belong to you or your country.

Jesus did not die so he can favour white anglo US citizens over the rest of The world.

Time to grow up and stop following nationalism, instead follow Jesus, who was technically a Non-US citizen.

danschance · Aug 17, 2013

Not sure if this helps but...

Connection between the antichrist and the popeQ: As a Methodist living in a new town, I have found a local LCMS church where I feel comfortable
and fed. Seeking information, I have looked over your pages on the net and have developed some
questions. The connection between the antichrist and pope are unclear to me. Do you believe the pope
is the only enemy?
A: The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be
identified with the Antichrist. The historic view of LCMS on the Antichrist is summarized as follows by
the Synod's Theological Commission:
The New Testament predicts that the church throughout its history will witness many antichrists (Matt.
24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8; 1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 7). All false teachers who teach
contrary to Christ's Word are opponents of Christ and, insofar as they do so, are anti-Christ.
However, the Scriptures also teach that there is one climactic "Anti-Christ" (Dan. 7:8,11, 20-21, 24-25;
11:36-45; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 John 2:18; 4:3; Revelation 17-18). . . Concerning the historical identity of
the Antichrist, we affirm the Lutheran Confessions' identification of the Antichrist with the office of the
papacy whose official claims continue to correspond to the Scriptural marks listed above. It is important,
however, that we observe the distinction which the Lutheran Confessors made between the office of
the pope (papacy) and the individual men who fill that office. The latter could be Christians themselves.
We do not presume to judge any person's heart. Also, we acknowledge the possibility that the historical
form of the Antichrist could change. Of course, in that case another identified by these marks would
rise.
In a footnote, the Commission adds:
To the extent that the papacy continues to claim as official dogma the canons and decrees of the Council
of Trent which expressly anathematizes, for instance, the doctrine "that justifying faith is nothing else
than trust in divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that trust alone by which we
are justified," the judgment of the Lutheran confessional writings that the papacy is the Antichrist holds.
At the same time, of course, we must recognize the possibility, under God's guidance, that
contemporary discussions and statements (e.g., 1983 U.S. Lutheran-Roman Catholic dialogue statement
on "Justification by Faith") could lead to a revision of the Roman Catholic position regarding Tridentine
dogma.
Usage: We urge you to contact an LCMS pastor in your area for more in-depth discussion.
Published by: LCMS Church Information Center

From Page 7 of "LCMS Frequently asked Questions PDF"

zone · Aug 17, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

when I get home actually Rachel I plan to post the entire email .
all it is is your post what's my user name removed and the question is what this person asserts true?

so once again your whole post ......slander and projecting has nothing whatsoever to do with me.
just trying to make it alright for you Rachel.
Address your problems and concerns.
apparently you don't like the way its working out...... again

unclefester · Aug 18, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Revelations 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city--which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where also their Lord was crucified.

Revelations 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”

Matthew 16:8-12
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But Jesus, aware of this, said, “O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? [SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? [SUP]11[/SUP]How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Deuteronomy 29
14“Now not with you alone am I making this covenant and this oath,15but both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God and with those who are not with us here today16(for you know how we lived in the land of Egypt, and how we came through the midst of the nations through which you passed;17moreover, you have seen their abominations and their idols of wood, stone, silver, and gold, which they had with them);18so that there will not be among you a man or woman, or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of those nations; that there will not be among you a root bearing poisonous fruit and wormwood.19“It shall be when he hears the words of this curse, that he will boast, saying, ‘I have peace though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart in order to destroy the watered land with the dry.’20“The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.21“Then the LORD will single him out for adversity from all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant which are written in this book of the law.

22“Now the generation to come, your sons who rise up after you and the foreigner who comes from a distant land, when they see the plagues of the land and the diseases with which the LORD has afflicted it, will say,23‘All its land is brimstone and salt, a burning waste, unsown and unproductive, and no grass grows in it, like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in His anger and in His wrath.’24“All the nations will say, ‘Why has the LORD done thus to this land? Why this great outburst of anger?’25“Then men will say, ‘Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, which He made with them when He brought them out of the land of Egypt.26‘They went and served other gods and worshiped them, gods whom they have not known and whom He had not allotted to them.27‘Therefore, the anger of the LORD burned against that land, to bring upon it every curse which is written in this book;28and the LORD uprooted them from their land in anger and in fury and in great wrath, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.’

Revelation 17
1Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” 3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

~

Isaiah 1
1The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

The Wickedness of Judah
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth;
for the LORD has spoken:
“Childrena have I reared and brought up,
but they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,
and the donkey its master’s crib,
but Israel does not know,
my people do not understand.”

4 Ah, sinful nation,
a people laden with iniquity,
offspring of evildoers,
children who deal corruptly!
They have forsaken the LORD,
they have despised the Holy One of Israel,
they are utterly estranged.

5 Why will you still be struck down?
Why will you continue to rebel?
The whole head is sick,
and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil.

7 Your country lies desolate;
your cities are burned with fire;
in your very presence
foreigners devour your land;
it is desolate, as overthrown by foreigners.
8 And the daughter of Zion is left
like a booth in a vineyard,
like a lodge in a cucumber field,
like a besieged city.

9 If the LORD of hosts
had not left us a few survivors,
we should have been like Sodom,
and become like Gomorrah.

10 Hear the word of the LORD,
you rulers of Sodom!
Give ear to the teachingb of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!

cont....

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Jeremiah 23
13 In the prophets of Samaria
I saw an unsavory thing:
they prophesied by Baal
and led my people Israel astray.

14 But in the prophets of Jerusalem
I have seen a horrible thing:
they commit adultery and walk in lies;
they strengthen the hands of evildoers,
so that no one turns from his evil;
all of them have become like Sodom to me,
and its inhabitants like Gomorrah.”

Romans 9
27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29And as Isaiah predicted,

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”

Isaiah 1:9
If the LORD of hosts had not left us a few survivors, we should have been like Sodom, and become like Gomorrah.

Revelation 11
1Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. 3And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. 6They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. 7And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pita will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, 8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Jeremiah 4
30 And you, O desolate one,
what do you mean that you dress in scarlet,
that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold,
that you enlarge your eyes with paint?
In vain you beautify yourself.
Your lovers despise you;
they seek your life.

31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor,
anguish as of one giving birth to her first child,
the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath,
stretching out her hands,
“Woe is me! I am fainting before murderers.”

Revelation 17
4The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

Revelation 18
16 “Alas, alas, for the great city
that was clothed in fine linen,
in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,
with jewels, and with pearls!
17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.”

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Lamentations 1
1 How lonely sits the city
that was full of people!
How like a widow has she become,
she who was great among the nations!
She who was a princess among the provinces
has become a slave.

Revelation 18
7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
since in her heart she says,
‘I sit as a queen,
I am no widow,
and mourning I shall never see.’

8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”

Revelation 11
8and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Jeremiah 22
5But if you will not obey these words, I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation. 6For thus says the LORD concerning the house of the king of Judah:

“‘You are like Gilead to me,
like the summit of Lebanon,
yet surely I will make you a desert,
an uninhabited city.

7 I will prepare destroyers against you,
each with his weapons,
and they shall cut down your choicest cedars
and cast them into the fire.

8“‘And many nations will pass by this city, and every man will say to his neighbor, “Why has the LORD dealt thus with this great city?” 9 And they will answer, “Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God and worshiped other gods and served them.”’”

Revelation 18
9And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning. 10They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say,

“Alas! Alas! You great city,
you mighty city, Babylon!
For in a single hour your judgment has come.”

cont

thecreationtutor · Aug 18, 2013

David_1 said:

I think the problem is the unquestionng support, the unthinking support of the American financed welfare handouts to Israel by US Christins and their belief that this has anything to do with being Christian. It's an invention by rich and powerful political groups. It's not a biblical commandment to finance and support the modern state of Israel.

You could also say, there is a big problem with American Christians not thinking for themself, instead they abdicate decision making to pastors and Republicans. The latter being the most selfish and corrupt group of humans on the planet.

News flash, Christianity does not belong to you or your country.

Jesus did not die so he can favour white anglo US citizens over the rest of The world.

Time to grow up and stop following nationalism, instead follow Jesus, who was technically a Non-US citizen.

Since when is the majority of the US white anglosaxon? bitter much?

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Revelation 17
“Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” 3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

Revelation 18
“So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence,
and will be found no more;
22 and the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters,
will be heard in you no more,
and a craftsman of any craft
will be found in you no more,
and the sound of the mill
will be heard in you no more,
23 and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”

Luke 11
45One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, in saying these things you insult us also.” 46And he said, “Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers. 47Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. 48So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ 50so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. 52Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”

Luke 13
31At that very hour some Pharisees came and said to him, “Get away from here, for Herod wants to kill you.” 32And he said to them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course. 33Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.’ 34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 35Behold, your house is forsaken. And I tell you, you will not see me until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

Matthew 23
29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38See, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

Matthew 24
1Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Leviticus 26
Punishment for Disobedience
14“But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, 15if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, 16then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. 18And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, 19and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 20And your strength shall be spent in vain, for your land shall not yield its increase, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit.

21“Then if you walk contrary to me and will not listen to me, I will continue striking you, sevenfold for your sins. 22And I will let loose the wild beasts against you, which shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock and make you few in number, so that your roads shall be deserted.

23“And if by this discipline you are not turned to me but walk contrary to me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant.

Ezekiel 16
The LORD’s Faithless Bride
1Again the word of the LORD came to me: 2“Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations, 3and say, Thus says the Lord GOD to Jerusalem: Your origin and your birth are of the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite.

35“Therefore, O prostitute, hear the word of the LORD: 36Thus says the Lord GOD, Because your lust was poured out and your nakedness uncovered in your whorings with your lovers, and with all your abominable idols, and because of the blood of your children that you gave to them, 37therefore, behold, I will gather all your lovers with whom you took pleasure, all those you loved and all those you hated. I will gather them against you from every side and will uncover your nakedness to them, that they may see all your nakedness. 38 And I will judge you as women who commit adultery and shed blood are judged, and bring upon you the blood of wrath and jealousy.

39And I will give you into their hands, and they shall throw down your vaulted chamber and break down your lofty places. They shall strip you of your clothes and take your beautiful jewels and leave you naked and bare. 40They shall bring up a crowd against you, and they shall stone you and cut you to pieces with their swords. 41And they shall burn your houses and execute judgments upon you in the sight of many women. I will make you stop playing the whore, and you shall also give payment no more.

Ezekiel 23
1The word of the LORD came to me: 2“Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother. 3They played the whore in Egypt; they played the whore in their youth; there their breasts were pressed and their virgin bosomsa handled. 4Oholah was the name of the elder and Oholibah the name of her sister. They became mine, and they bore sons and daughters. As for their names, Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.

11“Her sister Oholibah saw this, and she became more corrupt than her sisterb in her lust and in her whoring, which was worse than that of her sister. 12She lusted after the Assyrians, governors and commanders, warriors clothed in full armor, horsemen riding on horses, all of them desirable young men. 13And I saw that she was defiled; they both took the same way. 14But she carried her whoring further. She saw men portrayed on the wall, the images of the Chaldeans portrayed in vermilion, 15wearing belts on their waists, with flowing turbans on their heads, all of them having the appearance of officers, a likeness of Babylonians whose native land was Chaldea. 16When she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoring lust. And after she was defiled by them, she turned from them in disgust. 18When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. 19Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt 20and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. 21Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressedc your young breasts.”

22Therefore, O Oholibah, thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I will stir up against you your lovers from whom you turned in disgust, and I will bring them against you from every side: 23the Babylonians and all the Chaldeans, Pekod and Shoa and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them, desirable young men, governors and commanders all of them, officers and men of renown, all of them riding on horses. 24And they shall come against you from the northd with chariots and wagons and a host of peoples. They shall set themselves against you on every side with buckler, shield, and helmet; and I will commit the judgment to them, and they shall judge you according to their judgments. 25And I will direct my jealousy against you, that they may deal with you in fury. They shall cut off your nose and your ears, and your survivors shall fall by the sword. They shall seize your sons and your daughters, and your survivors shall be devoured by fire.

43“Then I said of her who was worn out by adultery, Now they will continue to use her for a whore, even her!g 44For they have gone in to her, as men go in to a prostitute. Thus they went in to Oholah and to Oholibah, lewd women! 45But righteous men shall pass judgment on them with the sentence of adulteresses, and with the sentence of women who shed blood, because they are adulteresses, and blood is on their hands.”

46For thus says the Lord GOD: “Bring up a vast host against them, and make them an object of terror and a plunder. 47And the host shall stone them and cut them down with their swords. They shall kill their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses.

Revelation 18
8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”

16 “Alas, alas, for the great city
that was clothed in fine linen,
in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,
with jewels, and with pearls!
17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.”

And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off 18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning,

“What city was like the great city?”

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Lamentations 2
15 All who pass along the way
clap their hands at you;
they hiss and wag their heads
at the daughter of Jerusalem:

“Is this the city that was called
the perfection of beauty,
the joy of all the earth?”

16 All your enemies
rail against you;
they hiss, they gnash their teeth,
they cry: “We have swallowed her!
Ah, this is the day we longed for;
now we have it; we see it!”

17 The LORD has done what he purposed;
he has carried out his word,
which he commanded long ago;
he has thrown down without pity;
he has made the enemy rejoice over you
and exalted the might of your foes.

18 Their heart cried to the Lord.
O wall of the daughter of Zion,
let tears stream down like a torrent
day and night!
Give yourself no rest,
your eyes no respite!

Leviticus 21
7They shall not marry a prostitute or a woman who has been defiled, neither shall they marry a woman divorced from her husband, for the priest is holy to his God. 8You shall sanctify him, for he offers the bread of your God. He shall be holy to you, for I, the LORD, who sanctify you, am holy. 9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Revelation 17
1Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters

Ezekiel 16
1Again the word of the LORD came to me: 2“Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations, 3and say, Thus says the Lord GOD to Jerusalem: Your origin and your birth are of the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite.

26You also played the whore with the Egyptians, your lustful neighbors, multiplying your whoring, to provoke me to anger. 27Behold, therefore, I stretched out my hand against you and diminished your allotted portion and delivered you to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were ashamed of your lewd behavior. 28You played the whore also with the Assyrians, because you were not satisfied; yes, you played the whore with them, and still you were not satisfied. 29You multiplied your whoring also with the trading land of Chaldea, and even with this you were not satisfied.

Jeremiah 2
1The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2“Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD,

“I remember the devotion of your youth,
your love as a bride,
how you followed me in the wilderness..

17 Have you not brought this upon yourself
by forsaking the LORD your God,
when he led you in the way?
18 And now what do you gain by going to Egypt
to drink the waters of the Nile?
Or what do you gain by going to Assyria
to drink the waters of the Euphrates?
19 Your evil will chastise you,
and your apostasy will reprove you.
Know and see that it is evil and bitter
for you to forsake the LORD your God;
the fear of me is not in you,
declares the Lord GOD of hosts.
in a land not sown.

20 “For long ago I broke your yoke
and burst your bonds;
but you said, ‘I will not serve.’
Yes, on every high hill
and under every green tree
you bowed down like a whore.

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Isaiah 1
1The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

21 How the faithful city
has become a whore,

she who was full of justice!
Righteousness lodged in her,
but now murderers.

Jeremiah 3
1 “Ifa a man divorces his wife
and she goes from him
and becomes another man’s wife,
will he return to her?
Would not that land be greatly polluted?
You have played the whore with many lovers;
and would you return to me?
declares the LORD.
2 Lift up your eyes to the bare heights, and see!
Where have you not been ravished?
By the waysides you have sat awaiting lovers
like an Arab in the wilderness.
You have polluted the land
with your vile whoredom.

6The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: “Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the whore? 7And I thought, ‘After she has done all this she will return to me,’ but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore.

Jeremiah 5
1 Run to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem,
look and take note!
Search her squares to see
if you can find a man,
one who does justice
and seeks truth,
that I may pardon her.

5 I will go to the great
and will speak to them,
for they know the way of the LORD,
the justice of their God.”
But they all alike had broken the yoke;
they had burst the bonds.

6 Therefore a lion from the forest shall strike them down;
a wolf from the desert shall devastate them.
A leopard is watching their cities;
everyone who goes out of them shall be torn in pieces,
because their transgressions are many,
their apostasies are great.

7 “How can I pardon you?
Your children have forsaken me
and have sworn by those who are no gods.
When I fed them to the full,
they committed adultery
and trooped to the houses of whores.

8 They were well-fed, lusty stallions,
each neighing for his neighbor’s wife.

Ezekiel 23
1The word of the LORD came to me: 2“Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother. 3They played the whore in Egypt; they played the whore in their youth; there their breasts were pressed and their virgin bosomsa handled. 4Oholah was the name of the elder and Oholibah the name of her sister. They became mine, and they bore sons and daughters. As for their names, Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.

11“Her sister Oholibah saw this, and she became more corrupt than her sisterb in her lust and in her whoring, which was worse than that of her sister.

17And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoring lust. And after she was defiled by them, she turned from them in disgust. 18When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. 19Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt.

cont

zone · Aug 18, 2013

Romans 9
27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israelc be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29And as Isaiah predicted,

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”

Romans 11:2
God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah--how he appealed to God against Israel

Romans 11:3
"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"?

Romans 11:4
And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."

Romans 11:5
So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

Revelation 18
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;

~

Jeremiah 31
31“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people

Ezekiel 37
26I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

~

Hebrews 13
10We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. 11For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. 12So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. 13 Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. 14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

Galatians 4
24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

.......

Revelation 17
3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

CONCLUSION:

the woman is not an allegorical, mystical world-city-church.
the woman is not Rome.
the woman is not New York.

the woman was the apostate city Jerusalem.
the remnant was saved (they were first called Christians at Antioch) and escaped the judgment of 70AD.

zone · Aug 18, 2013

BernardW said:

BernardW, i apologize for derailing your thread.
all unrelated issues i posted [which remain unresolved] will be taken to a new thread.
sorry. thank you.
zone

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