walk in the light

[Grandpa]

In order to understand the original law you must do back ground study into how it was given and used by the Jews, until you do this then I can not discuss any further with you how the law was applied.

Second yes those things do matter, because the Word of God from the Holy Spirit through Paul stated clearly those who continue to do those things will "NOT" inherit the promise !!!

Overcoming the world means through Christ we stop walking as we use to in the old sinful nature, we now walk because of Him in our new nature by the Spirit.

The blood of Jesus cleanses us from our sins..........

We can not be free from sin if we are still walking around serving it, being slaves to it !!!

We can not serve the flesh and His righteousness both....................

Your 'understanding' of the original law is what prevents you from walking in Christ and being led by the Spirit.


Trying to not walk as you walked before is working at your own righteousness. You aren't dead to the law if you are still trying to apply it to your life.

You don't understand Christianity if you think that through your effort and your behaviour you will be saved.

I already told you how the law is to be applied to Christians. You either understand or you don't. You didn't ask questions so you must not even want to understand.


Does a person have to tell a born-again Christian that they shouldn't walk as they did before? Is it even possible to be born again and walk as before? Nope. Its not.

What is possible is for some to attempt to condemn those who are in Christ by their 'understanding' of the law and how it 'applies'.

 

[PeterJens]

Your 'understanding' of the original law is what prevents you from walking in Christ and being led by the Spirit.

I do not know your walk with the Lord, but this is all wrong.
Jesus came to make us righteous, to behave as people of the Kingdom, by washing us clean and showing us a way of living and being that will keep us pure and holy. We are called as free people to freely walk in love. We are no longer slaves to sin, but choose to follow.

A slight issue is until you are freed you cannot choose to follow, but when freed you are called to choose to walk.

The whole argument has been about what it is to be saved and then sanctified. The disagreement is about what is the nature of being born of God. We hold it is the remaking of the individual, not a new heart being implanted in the husk of the old. We are still humans, walking with all the failures and issues of being human. But Jesus is declaring we can walk righteously, empowered by love and the Holy Spirit.

The problem is your faith has not delivered what it claims. No automatic righteousness, or command authority, or healing on demand, or riches, or health. I would suggest therefore it is a lie. I would love to believe you know what you are talking about but if you shinning goal does not exist you have nothing.

You sound like reformed christians who have got disappointed with their own spiritual failure and sinful behaviour. Changing the faith does not make things better, but understanding what sin actually is, and who you are as real people.

But if I talk about emotions, you run to the hills, though emotions are part of who you are. Unless you can deal with your internal emotional life you have nothing. Repression and denial are the works of darkness and lead to anxiety, depression, chaos within, addiction. You cannot be spiritual and addicted to porn, or greed, or envy, or jealousy, or covetousness.

So many claim to know the Lord and life, but clearly their intimate relationships with people have not worked and they are deceiving themselves. Unfortunately if you never let the Lord into your inner self, you can never know reality in the spiritual sense, no matter how big your ambitions or elation is.

 

[KennethC]

Your 'understanding' of the original law is what prevents you from walking in Christ and being led by the Spirit.


Trying to not walk as you walked before is working at your own righteousness. You aren't dead to the law if you are still trying to apply it to your life.

You don't understand Christianity if you think that through your effort and your behaviour you will be saved.

I already told you how the law is to be applied to Christians. You either understand or you don't. You didn't ask questions so you must not even want to understand.


Does a person have to tell a born-again Christian that they shouldn't walk as they did before? Is it even possible to be born again and walk as before? Nope. Its not.

What is possible is for some to attempt to condemn those who are in Christ by their 'understanding' of the law and how it 'applies'.

It is saddening the continuous false allegations some of you keep throwing around on others..............

Making false claims that I am not walking in the Spirit or abiding in Christ, and trying to say that I said my efforts save me when I never said or made such a claim. Please stop bearing false witness !!!

Apostle Paul's majority of the warnings in the bible about not walking properly in the faith was given to believers !!!

Free will was never taken away, and to claim we can not walk as we did before you have just ignored a number of scriptures that say and show it does happen.

Even Jesus parable of the "Sower and the Seed" shows some that do walk in the faith and then fall away...........

If it is not possible then you take free will away, which means you can never ever sin again.

Do you still sin ??? If you say yes then you can still give into sin, if you say no then you are a liar !!!

Nobody is condemning another person, at least not me, for that would be wrong to do as condemning others is not what we are allowed to do.

Rebuking and reproving others in the faith when they are wrong or in sin is allowed, and it is always to be followed with exhortation !!!

Usually the exhortation never gets to because the other side automatically when rebuked think they are being wrongfully judged and condemned when no such thing is going on !!!

 

[Grandpa]

I do not know your walk with the Lord, but this is all wrong.
Jesus came to make us righteous, to behave as people of the Kingdom, by washing us clean and showing us a way of living and being that will keep us pure and holy. We are called as free people to freely walk in love. We are no longer slaves to sin, but choose to follow.

A slight issue is until you are freed you cannot choose to follow, but when freed you are called to choose to walk.

The whole argument has been about what it is to be saved and then sanctified. The disagreement is about what is the nature of being born of God. We hold it is the remaking of the individual, not a new heart being implanted in the husk of the old. We are still humans, walking with all the failures and issues of being human. But Jesus is declaring we can walk righteously, empowered by love and the Holy Spirit.

The problem is your faith has not delivered what it claims. No automatic righteousness, or command authority, or healing on demand, or riches, or health. I would suggest therefore it is a lie. I would love to believe you know what you are talking about but if you shinning goal does not exist you have nothing.

You sound like reformed christians who have got disappointed with their own spiritual failure and sinful behaviour. Changing the faith does not make things better, but understanding what sin actually is, and who you are as real people.

But if I talk about emotions, you run to the hills, though emotions are part of who you are. Unless you can deal with your internal emotional life you have nothing. Repression and denial are the works of darkness and lead to anxiety, depression, chaos within, addiction. You cannot be spiritual and addicted to porn, or greed, or envy, or jealousy, or covetousness.

So many claim to know the Lord and life, but clearly their intimate relationships with people have not worked and they are deceiving themselves. Unfortunately if you never let the Lord into your inner self, you can never know reality in the spiritual sense, no matter how big your ambitions or elation is.

It looks like you need the same talk that Ken needs.

You aren't saved by your works.

You aren't kept saved by your continuing works.

Your only hope is the same as mine. The Lord Jesus Christ.

You can attempt to condemn people, you can attempt to shame people, you can attempt to frighten them, but ultimately the only way they will change is if they come to Christ.


I don't really care about the sin issue that you and Ken like to dwell on. That is not my issue any more. I found out there was nothing I could do about it anyway.

The only thing I can do is stop looking at it and look to the Lord Jesus Christ.

You know its a trick of the enemy to cause you to look back at all your sin issues, right?

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

I'm not sure what emotions you're talking about that are causing me to run for the hills. Maybe you have me confused with someone else...?

 

[Grandpa]

Making false claims that I am not walking in the Spirit or abiding in Christ, and trying to say that I said my efforts save me when I never said or made such a claim. Please stop bearing false witness !!!

Can a Christian lose their salvation, Ken?

 

[KennethC]

Can a Christian lose their salvation, Ken?

Yes if they stop putting their faith in Christ they have rejected the salvation through Him...........

The bible gives examples of this and the Apostle Paul states this falling away, departing from the faith, or not continuing in the faith a number of times.

It has to do with belief/unbelief not works or sin..................

 

[FreeNChrist]

"if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot disown Himself." 2 Timothy 2:13

 

[Grandpa]

Making false claims that I am not walking in the Spirit or abiding in Christ, and trying to say that I said my efforts save me when I never said or made such a claim. Please stop bearing false witness !!!

By your own admission, if a person doesn't make the effort of staying in the faith, they will lose their salvation.

Why do you keep telling me I am bearing false witness when this is exactly what you believe?

 

[KennethC]

By your own admission, if a person doesn't make the effort of staying in the faith, they will lose their salvation.

Why do you keep telling me I am bearing false witness when this is exactly what you believe?

Because you keep putting the focus on works or sin, not on the issue of believing or not believing !!!


That is how it is false Grandpa because your focus on passing things over on others is because you claim we are only looking at the actions one does.

Those actions are only indicative if one is abiding in Christ or not, it is not what does the saving or shows one is not headed to salvation through Christ.

Nobody is talking about self-effort, because the works we do will be guided by the Holy Spirit......

The Word of God says we were predestined to walk in His good works, so if a person is still walking or returns to walking in their own deliberate sinful ways what does that say ??? It says they are not abiding in Christ, which would be unbelief !!!

You claim I say self efforts save, I state and believe no such thing !!!

Therefore it is false to pass that on me....................................

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen! He is faithful!

If He began it..He will finish it. He is faithful and abundantly able to do so...

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

"if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot disown Himself." 2 Timothy 2:13

 

[Grandpa]

Because you keep putting the focus on works or sin, not on the issue of believing or not believing !!!


That is how it is false Grandpa because your focus on passing things over on others is because you claim we are only looking at the actions one does.

Those actions are only indicative if one is abiding in Christ or not, it is not what does the saving or shows one is not headed to salvation through Christ.

Nobody is talking about self-effort, because the works we do will be guided by the Holy Spirit......

The Word of God says we were predestined to walk in His good works, so if a person is still walking or returns to walking in their own deliberate sinful ways what does that say ??? It says they are not abiding in Christ, which would be unbelief !!!

You claim I say self efforts save, I state and believe no such thing !!!

Therefore it is false to pass that on me....................................

I think you are thoroughly confused as to what you believe.

You are the one that keeps bringing up sin and peoples behaviour.

You claim I say self efforts save, I state and believe no such thing !!!

You just did, again.

Did you know that if a person is pre-destined to do something then they will end up doing it?

You can't be pre-destined to do something and then not do it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

By your own admission, if a person doesn't make the effort of staying in the faith, they will lose their salvation.

Why do you keep telling me I am bearing false witness when this is exactly what you believe?

If a person doesn't stay in the faith, how is it possible to keep salvation?

 

[KennethC]

I think you are thoroughly confused as to what you believe.

You are the one that keeps bringing up sin and peoples behaviour.



You just did, again.

Did you know that if a person is pre-destined to do something then they will end up doing it?

You can't be pre-destined to do something and then not do it.

Do you know what the words: should, might, and may have in common ???

They are conditional words that make any sentence they are used in to not be a definite thing, but a possibility or choice.


The scripture about being predestined to do the good works says, "should walk in them."

This means we still have a choice not to be obedient and can still walk as we want instead...........

I know exactly what I believe Grandpa, so please stop telling me I don't or am confused..........


Works do not save !!!

Sin does not lose salvation !!!

Belief and unbelief does this and the Word of God shows that unbelief is more then just not believing He exists !!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

If a person doesn't stay in the faith, how is it possible to keep salvation?

Saving faith IS persevering and enduring faith.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Saving faith IS persevering and enduring faith.

That's true. And faith that doesn't save doesn't persevere and endure.

 

[Grandpa]

Do you know what the words: should, might, and may have in common ???

They are conditional words that make any sentence they are used in to not be a definite thing, but a possibility or choice.


The scripture about being predestined to do the good works says, "should walk in them."

This means we still have a choice not to be obedient and can still walk as we want instead...........

I know exactly what I believe Grandpa, so please stop telling me I don't or am confused..........


Works do not save !!!

Sin does not lose salvation !!!

Belief and unbelief does this and the Word of God shows that unbelief is more then just not believing He exists !!!

Romans 8:29-33
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's true. And faith that doesn't save doesn't persevere and endure.

Because it was never saving faith.

 

[Grandpa]

Do you know what the words: should, might, and may have in common ???

They are conditional words that make any sentence they are used in to not be a definite thing, but a possibility or choice.


The scripture about being predestined to do the good works says, "should walk in them."

This means we still have a choice not to be obedient and can still walk as we want instead...........

I know exactly what I believe Grandpa, so please stop telling me I don't or am confused..........


Works do not save !!!

Sin does not lose salvation !!!

Belief and unbelief does this and the Word of God shows that unbelief is more then just not believing He exists !!!

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are Christs workmanship, created for good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

But somehow we can take ourselves out of these good works by deciding that God doesn't exist.

Seems silly to fore ordain something that won't happen. IMO

 

[royalscot]

miss quoting the bible, is believing in something, that you should not, have believed in in the first place.

for example. repent believe, believe repent, believe. the key word is believing.

ie you will still ,get the holy spirit by believing. but growth in the holy spirit, would depend on truth.




The Truth Will Set You Free
31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples,32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."33 They answered him, "We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, 'You will become free'?"
34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever.36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.37 I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you.38 I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father."John 8:

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Because it was never saving faith.

That's a meaningless statement. Faith is faith. It's what a person does with faith that matters.