walk in the light

PeterJens · Jan 2, 2016

Interesting comeback. You specialise in no content, just accusing me of ignorance. If I am ignorant of how the new heart as people in the Kingdom works, I must be ignorant of how I work. Now that would be unusual, and un-scriptural.

Maybe you are suggesting I am not a christian.

The law was given so people might prosper through being righteous, and searching for forgiveness through sacrifices in the temple. Though this appeared to work for some, the nation drifted away time and again, though God delivered plain blessing, presence, judgement still it had little effect. Do you think the history of the church and christians has been a lot better?

The one issue for me people have avoided is emotional honesty, walking in the light and love. As you appear to not be addressing these issues, I think your hyper-grace emphasis is a doomed as the gnostics of old.

PeterJens · Jan 2, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Is this admiting we as christians are called to walk in righteousness by obeying the commands of Jesus?

for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth
Eph 5:9

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 5:16

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
1 Cor 4:5

FreeNChrist · Jan 2, 2016

PeterJens said:

Interesting comeback. You specialise in no content, just accusing me of ignorance. If I am ignorant of how the new heart as people in the Kingdom works, I must be ignorant of how I work. Now that would be unusual, and un-scriptural.

Maybe you are suggesting I am not a christian.

The law was given so people might prosper through being righteous, and searching for forgiveness through sacrifices in the temple. Though this appeared to work for some, the nation drifted away time and again, though God delivered plain blessing, presence, judgement still it had little effect. Do you think the history of the church and christians has been a lot better?

The one issue for me people have avoided is emotional honesty, walking in the light and love. As you appear to not be addressing these issues, I think your hyper-grace emphasis is a doomed as the gnostics of old.

No, it was you who accused me of ignorance. I didn't accuse you of it, I simply placed it back on you where it belongs. As your posts only continue to confirm.

FreeNChrist · Jan 2, 2016

PeterJens said:

It's not admitting anything. It's continuing to say what many of us have been saying right along. Which is the same thing that God is saying. Christians are children of light, not darkness. So, walk, live, be who you are!

PeterJens · Jan 2, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

You have side stepped the issue. You have not defined your meaning of walking in the light, while I have.
I have quoted scripture to back up what I am saying, yet you cannot defend your position, which appears to be full of holes.

Walking in the light is about being honest, and you are not being honest.

I truly did not believe so many believed in this hyper-grace but you opened up my eyes. Your language is almost the same as traditional conservative theology, but in some important areas it goes into heresy.

You remind me of the self deception all of us fall into. I do not like that preacher, but if it was me standing up there saying Jesus loves you, everyone would know what I mean.

The sad truth is often that is exactly what the preacher is saying, but other things in the listeners relationship with the preacher is blocking out God, and often this becomes some elaborate theological justification for bitterness and pain.

For me the one sign this is occuring is when simple language becomes a long winded study of some minor points.

dalconn · Jan 2, 2016

PeterJens said:

Can you support this claim using the epistle writings of the new covenant?

FreeNChrist · Jan 2, 2016

PeterJens said:

You have side stepped the issue. You have not defined your meaning of walking in the light, while I have.
I have quoted scripture to back up what I am saying, yet you cannot defend your position, which appears to be full of holes.

Walking in the light is about being honest, and you are not being honest.

I truly did not believe so many believed in this hyper-grace but you opened up my eyes. Your language is almost the same as traditional conservative theology, but in some important areas it goes into heresy.

You remind me of the self deception all of us fall into. I do not like that preacher, but if it was me standing up there saying Jesus loves you, everyone would know what I mean.

The sad truth is often that is exactly what the preacher is saying, but other things in the listeners relationship with the preacher is blocking out God, and often this becomes some elaborate theological justification for bitterness and pain.

For me the one sign this is occuring is when simple language becomes a long winded study of some minor points.

LOL. Kettle, meet pot.

KennethC · Jan 2, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

It is not talking about just one man, it is only using that one situation as an example.............

Please read verse 11 again as it says who is to be shunned if they don't give up their ways;

1 Corinthians 5:11

But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner - not even to eat with such a person.

(Verse 13) But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

This passage is clearly speaking on those who continue and refuse to give up deliberate sinful lives while claiming to be a believer in Christ, are to be cast out and shunned from the church.

I did not say all people in the Corinthian church either, I said those who refused to give up their sinful ways the others had the right to kick them out and shun them................

FreeNChrist · Jan 2, 2016

Wheat and tares. Sometimes the tares attempts to mimic wheat falls so short, that what it is, is undeniable. So, in those cases, pull 'em out. Or rather put them out.

.........but, leave room for the repentance that saves.

KennethC · Jan 2, 2016

Grandpa said:

God's morals or even our personal morals will show out in our actions, they are not just something you state you believe in but do not act on.

Example say you were raised to think eating meat is wrong, that would be one of the morals in your household growing up. Thus in turn it would carry over to you never eating a steak, hamburger, ribs, and so on because of that personal moral.

If it was not for God and His Holy Word we would not know what His morals are, and could go free willy nilly making anything up as a moral.

God's morals are not just the 10 Commandments and I have never said that, but His morals are placed within those commandments.

If you love God you will put nothing before Him, or believe in another God.......

If you love others you will not steal from them................

If you love others you would not murder them...........

If you love others you would not covet what they have............

If you love others you would not commit adultery...................

If you love others you would not lie about them.................

etc...............

Love does no harm to self and others thus God's morals that we walk in will in no way cause us to transgress His ways by harming others.

Apostle Paul gives a clear teaching on this in Romans 13:9-10, as he shows walking in love in no way would cause one to transgress them therefore upholds/establishes the commandments thus fulfilling them.

KennethC · Jan 2, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Grandpa said:

So the Jews who were given the law from God by Moses and shown how to apply it means nothing to you two ???

I ask this because even Jesus and the Apostles referred back to the the OT at times in order to give proper understanding under the new covenant. That is all going back to the Jew's way of understanding the law in order for understanding now is doing !!!

You can not understand how the law was truly applied without knowing the history in how it was used..........

That was one of the reasons the Pharisees got rebuked by Jesus because they did not know how to properly apply the law they taught, as they stuck to the written ordinances and ignored Faith, Mercy, and Justice that also was in the law !!!

PeterJens · Jan 2, 2016

dalconn said:

They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
Rom 2.15

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Matt 5:6

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:18

I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
John 10:10

Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.
Luke 11:28

Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
John 20:29

The basic principle is walking in righteousness is Gods way, and the law is written on the christians heart so they will rejoice in obeying it, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

The problem comes when people stumble, and need to work on their walk. To many this is works of the self, rather than sanctification and humbleness. Problems people have are often complex and deep seated so resolution can take time, prayer, fellowship, confession and repentance, all of which people seem to be in denial about.

Grace777x70 · Jan 2, 2016

What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:

It is not the law of Moses. As we saw in the last post, if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.
It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.
It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us – against the Lord’s wishes – by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?

It is Himself.

1. The law of love

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)
Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.” But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)
God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?

Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.
Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.
Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life

It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)

Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:

Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)

Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. The new law is a Who.

3. The perfect law of liberty

James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6). What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)? It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.

The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)

Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals his righteousness.

“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy. Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.

The Law written in our hearts is Jesus

Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).

The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus himself.

How do you know he’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin. Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.

Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.

KennethC · Jan 2, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Grandpa said:

Grace777x70 said:

What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:

It is not the law of Moses. As we saw in the last post, if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.
It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.
It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us – against the Lord’s wishes – by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?

It is Himself.

1. The law of love

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)
Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.” But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)
God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?

Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.
Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.
Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life

It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)

Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:

Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)

Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. The new law is a Who.

3. The perfect law of liberty

James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6). What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)? It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.

The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)

Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals his righteousness.

“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy. Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.

The Law written in our hearts is Jesus

Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).

The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus himself.

How do you know he’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin. Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.

Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.

How do you explain then all the places in the NT where the 10 Commandments are shown as upheld in believers lives, and in the lists given to those who will not receive eternal life are listed transgressing of those commandments ???

Grace777x70 · Jan 2, 2016

This will answer your question about the Law being written on our hearts....there are around 17 reasons why the Law of Moses is not written on our hearts....what He has written on our hearts is far better law..

have a look...

The Law Written on Our Hearts is not the Ten Commandments – Escape to Reality

Grandpa · Jan 2, 2016

KennethC said:

Nope.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I know how it was applied.

1 Timothy 1:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Galatians 3:23-25

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

They thought they kept it.

They thought they were properly applying it.

Just like you.

This is how to properly apply the law;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Grandpa · Jan 2, 2016

KennethC said:

What laws are not upheld by the fruit of the Spirit being produced in the life of a Christian?

How are those fruit produced? By applying the law properly? By working really hard?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

KennethC · Jan 2, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Grandpa said:

These answers right here show that discussing this topic is a never ending useless attempt...........

Whenever the 10 Commandments are listed or said all you can do is focus on the written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

Every single one of your scriptural responses is referring to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law, not the moral standard that is contained within the 10.

Nobody is saying we are being made perfect in the flesh by written ordinance (law) observance............

Walking in love upholds those commands is what is being said !!!

We don't follow them as a set of ordinances that have to be obeyed, we by walking in love automatically uphold them as a natural everyday way of life.

KennethC · Jan 2, 2016

https://askdrbrown.org/dr-paul-ellis-underscores-the-errors-of-hyper-grace/

Here is a link that discusses some of the issues with Paul Ellis teachings.........

Grandpa · Jan 2, 2016

KennethC said:

I totally agree.

No. The moral standard is not separated from the law in any way.

That is done by you in order to attempt to excuse your work at it.

Double-talk.

Just like your double-mindedness.

The scripture I posted is pretty plain. Did you not understand them?

The Ministry of Death written on Stone. The 'moral standard' of the 10 commandments is condemnation and death to us.

Why? Because it is a yoke we can't bear.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Whenever you look to any aspect of the law Matthew 5:48 is the standard of it.

The law doesn't cause us to walk in Love. We don't do it by our decision.

Love is a gift.

walk in the light

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