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You may say with your carnal mind/flesh that you hate your brother but deep down in your spirit..in your new man you don't....if you truly do hate....then it is obvious....you do not have eternal life in you....it's black and white....I know you don't like it....but that's how the cookie crumbles..as they say..
any Christian can walk according to the flesh..this does not make them "darkness"..they are still "light in the Lord"
any Christian can walk according to the flesh..this does not make them "darkness"..they are still "light in the Lord"
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It's not a question of what one nature says and the other one doesn't; it's what a person does. James and John said that not caring for a needy brother is hateful and walking in darkness. That doesn't mean such a person is not really a Christian or ceases to be a Christian; it just means that person is not acting like a Christian, and such behavior needs to be corrected in order to walk in the light.
You are confusing the term "..walk in the light " which is the status of a believer in Christ...with behavior....a believer is never "out of the light" because we are Light in the Lord!
There is only one scripture that talks about walk in the light..and that is 1 john 1:7..which we know is talking about
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
There is only one scripture that talks about walk in the light..and that is 1 john 1:7..which we know is talking about
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
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Ephesians 5:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
[SUP]9 [/SUP] (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
The fruit of the Light would be that you love your brother in your inner man...not if you have something against him in your carnal mind....someone can say " I hate you"..but they really don't if they are born-again..( that is they don't hate in their new man of the heart )....so..we are to walk - conduct out lives as children of the light which would show good fruit but we are never "out of the light"..
The fruit of our being in the light = that our inner man has goodness , righteousness and truth in in..because we are one with Christ....that is why a Christian cannot truly "hate" anyone from his new man...
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
[SUP]9 [/SUP] (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
The fruit of the Light would be that you love your brother in your inner man...not if you have something against him in your carnal mind....someone can say " I hate you"..but they really don't if they are born-again..( that is they don't hate in their new man of the heart )....so..we are to walk - conduct out lives as children of the light which would show good fruit but we are never "out of the light"..
The fruit of our being in the light = that our inner man has goodness , righteousness and truth in in..because we are one with Christ....that is why a Christian cannot truly "hate" anyone from his new man...
L
Most of my Christian life I have heard those words; POSITIONALLY / EXPERIENTIALLY And they have long caused me to stay put in my moving on in the faith. Basically they mean you don't have them now, you will have them later when you get to heaven. But I have learned we need them now while on earth.
We need to know who we are in Christ and to claim those truths by faith. When we get to heaven we will not need faith. We won't need revelation from the Bible and the Holy Spirit so we need those things very much now. They are not only positional for when our bodies put on immortality., they are for right now when we walk the paths He puts before us.
2 Tim.3:16,17 This is ongoing for the here and now.
We have all things in Christ., He has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness. There is much to learn as we find out what in fact we do have in this salvation. We know more than we first knew when we first heard about the salvation of our souls and the forgiveness of sins. Now we are to grow in faith and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior.
Amen! 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
1 John 3:10 - ..does not practice righteousness is not of God..
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1 John 3:10 - ..is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
1 john 2:9 - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.
1 John 2:11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 3:10 - ..does not practice righteousness is not of God..
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1 John 3:10 - ..is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
1 john 2:9 - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.
1 John 2:11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
If you talked about a politician walking in the light you would say they are being honest about their positions and behaviour without hiding anything.
I find it odd that christians do not attach this simple morality to this obvious language.
Jesus talked about being the light, about showing up sin, about conviction and identifying people hating him because He showed their works were evil.
Have you ever gone into a field with a bright light at night. All the shadows disappear, and everything becomes visible and plain.
So if we claim to have faith and yet hide things, are deceptive, sinful we are not walking in the light.
The hyper-grace camp hate this idea because it emphasises being honest and open, dealing with sin for what it is.
This they feel is condemnation, but if they were righteous, walking in the light they would have no problems.
I think this very verse and their long winded interpretation identifies their failure and guilt.
Why else do they not want to walk in the light and admit the worldly nature of their leaders?
I find it odd that christians do not attach this simple morality to this obvious language.
Jesus talked about being the light, about showing up sin, about conviction and identifying people hating him because He showed their works were evil.
Have you ever gone into a field with a bright light at night. All the shadows disappear, and everything becomes visible and plain.
So if we claim to have faith and yet hide things, are deceptive, sinful we are not walking in the light.
The hyper-grace camp hate this idea because it emphasises being honest and open, dealing with sin for what it is.
This they feel is condemnation, but if they were righteous, walking in the light they would have no problems.
I think this very verse and their long winded interpretation identifies their failure and guilt.
Why else do they not want to walk in the light and admit the worldly nature of their leaders?
K
If I walk in the light God and I have fellowship one with another, and if I am one with God, and there's no darkness in God at all, then there's no darkness in me AT ALL. Oh what a miracle truth! How expensive it must have been to make this possible for me and have it be true. It cost God the blood of His only Son. He POURED out His blood for us. By His stripes we are healed.
Staggard
Do you think walking in sin is walking in the light? Do you think sin is something we are ashamed of and wish to hide?
If you have seen people caught in addiction, violence, crime, abuse you know what walking in darkness is.
They appear like everyone else but hide these hidden aspects of who they are.
Who has blinded the people of the light with religion? And yet the people who claim they hate religion use its very language over one of the simplest illustrations of relationship honesty.
Do you think walking in sin is walking in the light? Do you think sin is something we are ashamed of and wish to hide?
If you have seen people caught in addiction, violence, crime, abuse you know what walking in darkness is.
They appear like everyone else but hide these hidden aspects of who they are.
Who has blinded the people of the light with religion? And yet the people who claim they hate religion use its very language over one of the simplest illustrations of relationship honesty.
This connection is just not true.
Have you ever seen a child be cruel to another child?
I have, and if they think they will not get caught or punished they just repeat the behaviour. It is completely naive to think if you have no down side to your behaviour you will be a good person.
The point of following Jesus is that sin is an eternal downside, it works against life and that which is good.
The reason why christians do not follow sin is because in Jesus they can recognise this and learn to walk in the light, to spend time with God, to be empowered by love in their hearts.
Your language would imply you believe this, but I doubt it, because you constantly want to go back to the ideas of legalism and the law, and how the law is evil because it brings death, rather than the law shows up sin for what it is.
The law does tend to magnify sin, because the sinner wants to justify their rebellion and looks for alternatives to get their own way once one set is stopped. But maybe you are actually ignorant of how the human heart works.
Have you ever seen a child be cruel to another child?
I have, and if they think they will not get caught or punished they just repeat the behaviour. It is completely naive to think if you have no down side to your behaviour you will be a good person.
The point of following Jesus is that sin is an eternal downside, it works against life and that which is good.
The reason why christians do not follow sin is because in Jesus they can recognise this and learn to walk in the light, to spend time with God, to be empowered by love in their hearts.
Your language would imply you believe this, but I doubt it, because you constantly want to go back to the ideas of legalism and the law, and how the law is evil because it brings death, rather than the law shows up sin for what it is.
The law does tend to magnify sin, because the sinner wants to justify their rebellion and looks for alternatives to get their own way once one set is stopped. But maybe you are actually ignorant of how the human heart works.
Yep..just as I said in the post...# 127
Ephesians 5:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
[SUP]9[/SUP] (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
The fruit of the Light would be that you love your brother in your inner man...not if you have something against him in your carnal mind....someone can say " I hate you"..but they really don't if they are born-again..( that is they don't hate in their new man of the heart )....so..we are to walk - conduct out lives as children of the light which would show good fruit but we are never "out of the light"..
The fruit of our being in the light = that our inner man has goodness , righteousness and truth in in..because we are one with Christ....that is why a Christian cannot truly "hate" anyone from his new man...
Ephesians 5:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
[SUP]9[/SUP] (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
The fruit of the Light would be that you love your brother in your inner man...not if you have something against him in your carnal mind....someone can say " I hate you"..but they really don't if they are born-again..( that is they don't hate in their new man of the heart )....so..we are to walk - conduct out lives as children of the light which would show good fruit but we are never "out of the light"..
The fruit of our being in the light = that our inner man has goodness , righteousness and truth in in..because we are one with Christ....that is why a Christian cannot truly "hate" anyone from his new man...
Pauls argument in romans 7
The law defines what is sinful and what is not.
It defines when a contract starts and stops.
The argument is without the law you cannot be a law breaker.
This ignores the principles of relationship debt or obligation.
The law in every society is often just the codifying of these basic dependencies and resulting areas of trust. The law often comes into play when strangers cause problems and someone has to decide who the guilty party are and who is innocent. You then need evidence and measured punishements for those found guilty.
In a sense the court is structured around these written statutes but if can also work in feudal ways where whatever the king decreed was then law.
Gods law is defined as a judgement on people based on their behaviour.
Paul is arguing because we have a relationship with Jesus we no longer are under Gods law, but under Jesus and slaves to righteousness.
He is picturing the relationship is the source of power to overcome, not be checking the letter of the law and practising very hard to be a good person.
Now you appear to be saying this in part, but want to condemn large sections of the church as if they do not know Jesus. This is not a christian graceful behaviour.
The law defines what is sinful and what is not.
It defines when a contract starts and stops.
The argument is without the law you cannot be a law breaker.
This ignores the principles of relationship debt or obligation.
The law in every society is often just the codifying of these basic dependencies and resulting areas of trust. The law often comes into play when strangers cause problems and someone has to decide who the guilty party are and who is innocent. You then need evidence and measured punishements for those found guilty.
In a sense the court is structured around these written statutes but if can also work in feudal ways where whatever the king decreed was then law.
Gods law is defined as a judgement on people based on their behaviour.
Paul is arguing because we have a relationship with Jesus we no longer are under Gods law, but under Jesus and slaves to righteousness.
He is picturing the relationship is the source of power to overcome, not be checking the letter of the law and practising very hard to be a good person.
Now you appear to be saying this in part, but want to condemn large sections of the church as if they do not know Jesus. This is not a christian graceful behaviour.