Was Jesus born in September or on December 25? — Using John the Baptist’s birth

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#21
1.) "One of the main arguments that I have heard to support the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is that a loving God would not allow His children to suffer through such a difficult time. "

-Our feelings have no bearing on Biblical events one way or the other. That is not a valid reason for supporting or questioning the pre-trib rapture. It is a moot point.


2.) "Exodus: A parallel to the coming of God’s Judgement and Deliverance."

-How this can be construed as a reason to doubt the pre-trib rapture is beyond me. (Though I have never used it to support it.) Another moot point.


3.) "But when does the resurrection take place? The scripture clearly answers this question. At the last trumpet. In other words after the plagues."

-There is no reason whatsoever to assume that this trumpet refers to the 7th trumpet of the Tribulation Period. Trumpets were often used to announce great events. If this trumpet signals the pre-trib rapture, then it most certainly would be the last trumpet of the Church Age.


If these are the best arguments against pre-trib, then my confidence is greatly increased that it shall come to pass.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,748
3,558
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#22
Might as well throw in Jesus being born during the month of March.... March 20, 6 BC.... at the time the sacrificial lambs were to be presented to the priests at the temple...

 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,611
3,192
113
#23
Might as well throw in Jesus being born during the month of March.... March 20, 6 BC.... at the time the sacrificial lambs were to be presented to the priests at the temple...

No need to watch past the point where Jonathan Cahn says lambs are only born in springtime. While this may be true of some breeds, fat-tailed or broad-tailed sheep can have lambs almost any time of year. These are the kind of sheep the shepherds in Luke would've been keeping watch over.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,178
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#24
Thought Jesus was born in the month of Tishri according to Jewish calendar around time of feast of tabernacles. It would have been around harvest time. .

The Hebrews didnt follow the Gregorian calendar, so anyone who writes he was born March, September or December is mistaken.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
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India
#25
I believe Christ was born on Kislev 25th, which is Hannukah, and roughly corresponds to our December. He was conceived on Nisan 14th, which roughly corresponds to March 25th, and was believed to be the Creation Date. Nine Months later, Dec. 25th, He was born. Both St. Augustine in the West and St. Chrysostom in the East hand down this date in the 4th Century. Also, Zechariah was mostly ministering as a Priest round Yom Kippur, or the Day of Atonement, which is usually in late September, when John the Baptist was conceived. Six months later would be March, when Christ. So the date fits with that also.

Explained in more detail here: https://onepeterfive.com/dates-years-birth-death-christ/

"First Point: John the Baptist was conceived around late September of 3 B.C. near the Day of Atonement.
A Hebrew calendar shows that the Day of Atonement (also called Yom Kippur) was on Sep. 19, 3 B.C. It is the contention of this article that the Baptist was conceived around this time, when St. Zachary was ministering in the Temple. In other words, the story of our salvation began on the ancient Day of Atonement commanded by God, which is fitting. It is here that the Gospel events recorded by St. Luke in chapter 1 really begin to take off.

1:5 “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachary, of the course of Abia; and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth.”

As Dr. Marshall explains, a course of Abia occurs in September, and there is evidence in this passage to suggest that the time is around the Day of Atonement, when the high priest goes into the holy place, as we read in Ex. 30:10, Lev. 16:3, Heb. 9:7, etc.

Second Point: Jesus Christ Our Lord was conceived around six months after St. John the Baptist.
Moreover, we know from the same chapter that Our Lady conceived Christ about six months after St. Elizabeth conceived the Baptist. For the Angel says (36), “And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: [37] Because no word shall be impossible with God.”

Now, if the Baptist was conceived in late September, Christ the Lord would have been conceived in late March. Similarly, we can reasonably deduce that the Baptist would be born around late June, nine months after conception.

Third Point: Therefore, Christ Our Lord was conceived on March 25, 2 B.C. and born Dec. 25, 2 B.C.

It is an interesting point that “the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month, that is, the month of Kislev” (1 Mac. 4:22) was already held in honor as a Festival of Light. It is the Feast of Dedication in winter mentioned by St. John (10:22). The Hebrew calendar begins in March-April in Nisan, so its ninth month roughly comes to our twelfth month, December, in most years. It is highly fitting that the 25th day of the 12th month on the Christian calendar should have been set apart for Christ, “The Light of the World” (Jn. 8:12), to make His entrance into the world.

The Baptist being born in late June, as shown in the Second Point, Christ Our Lord certainly would have been born around late December. The witness of Tradition, of very early historical Tradition, is clear on this point.

Bp. Theophilus (115–181 A.D.) stated: “We ought to celebrate the birthday of Our Lord on what day soever the 25th of December shall happen.”
Saint Hippolytus (170–240 A.D.) wrote: “The First Advent of our Lord in the flesh occurred when He was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, a Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, which is five thousand and five hundred years from Adam.”

St. Augustine finally confirms: “But he was born, according to Tradition, upon December the 25th.”
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,640
578
113
#26
Hey all. You know if some that knew me didn't know when I was born yet picked a day to celebrate it. Oh be so wonderful. So you do know if we celebrated Christ birth on some other day there will still be those that don't like it won't do it on and on. In the end no one knows the exact day or even month. Like talking about caught up (rapture) here.

"1.) "One of the main arguments that I have heard to support the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is that a loving God would not allow His children to suffer through such a difficult time. " Yep heard this one and it is written we will never see experience Gods wrath. Its no different then those that say we must go through the great tribulation because God needs to test those who "say" the love Him". There are more believers give as reasons why we have to go through the great trib yet none are written.

Anyway Christs birth and if it was any other day we would still debate it. Iv'e heard Sept and other months far back as I can remember. Just look here "Sept or Dec is mistaken". They give reasons as to why they do not believe He was born then. I heard growing up we don't know the real date and what really happened on Dec 25th. As if some other day will be what more holy? Its a fallen world under a curse still so no matter what day month some man/woman picks its still no matter no worse then Dec 25th. I am always like why would I focus on anything else but Christ? Nothing trumps Him. Nothing has more power then He. I won't give man any glory on that day just Christ. I as I do every day I have been so blessed as we all are to still be here.
 
Dec 15, 2022
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#27
Hi

I just wrote this on the issue - I quote:

As Christians, we celebrate the birth of Jesus on Christmas Day, observed on December 25th each year. While the date of Jesus’ birth is not known, and is not in the Bible, the celebration of Christmas Day on December 25th has been a tradition since at least the 4th century. It is thought that the early Christian church may have chosen this date in order to co-opt the celebrations of the winter solstice and other pre-Christian holidays that were observed around this time of year.
Despite the fact that the exact date of Jesus’ birth is not known, the celebration of Christmas Day is an opportunity to remember the teachings, miracles and self-sacrifice of Jesus and to celebrate the hope and love that he brought into the world. It is a time for reflection, prayer, and the expression of our faith. It is a time for fellowship and the celebration of community, as we come together with our loved ones to exchange gifts and share meals.
As we celebrate Christmas Day this year, let us remember the significance of this holiday and the impact that Jesus has had on our lives. Let us take this opportunity to express our gratitude and to share the love of Christ with others. May this Christmas be a time of joy, hope, and renewal for us all.
The Winter Solstice According To The Julian Calendar
The exact date of Jesus’ birth is not known, and it is not clear when the celebration of Christmas Day began. However, the holiday has been observed on December 25th since at least the 4th century.
One of the key figures in the early history of Christmas Day was the Roman Emperor Constantine, who converted to Christianity and declared that December 25th would be observed as a holiday to honor the birth of Jesus in AD 336. Constantine’s declaration was likely influenced by the fact that December 25th was already a significant date in the Roman calendar, as it was the day of the winter solstice, this according to the Julian calendar, which was a time of celebration in many ancient cultures.
It is possible that the early Christian church may have chosen December 25th as the date for Christmas in order to co-opt these pagan celebrations and give them a Christian significance. However, the reasons for the association of Christmas with December 25th are not definitively known.
It should be said that, at the time, and owing to changes and imperfections in the calendar, the 25th December was the solstice.
How Was Christmas Celebrated?
It is difficult to say exactly how Christmas Day was celebrated in AD 336, as there is very little written record of the early celebrations of the holiday. However, it is likely that the celebration of Christmas Day in AD 336 was relatively simple, as the holiday was still in its early stages of development.
It is possible that the early celebrations of Christmas Day may have involved the exchange of gifts, the singing of hymns and carols, and the attendance of religious services. The celebration of Christmas Day may also have involved the commemoration of the birth of Jesus through the reading of biblical passages and the performance of religious plays.
The exact practices and traditions of the early celebrations of Christmas Day are not well understood, as there is very little written record of these early celebrations.
What Was The Significance Of December 25th In The Roman Calendar?
In the Roman calendar, December 25th was a significant date because it was the day of the winter solstice, which marked the shortest day of the year and the beginning of the winter season. The winter solstice was a time of celebration in many ancient cultures, and it was believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth. Many ancient cultures celebrated the solstice with feasts and festivals, and it is possible that the early Christian church may have chosen December 25th as the date for Christmas in order to co-opt these pagan celebrations and give them a Christian significance.
What Are Examples Of Pre-Christian Celebrations Of The Solstice?
There were many pre-Christian celebrations that took place around the time of the winter solstice in ancient cultures. These celebrations involved feasts and festivals that were intended to honor gods and to mark the end of one year and the beginning of the next. Examples of pre-Christian celebrations that took place around the time of the winter solstice include:
Yule: This was a festival that was celebrated by the ancient Germanic and Scandinavian peoples. Yule was a time of feasting, gift-giving, and the burning of Yule logs. It was believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth, and it was often associated with the god Odin.
Saturnalia: This was a Roman festival that was held in honor of the god Saturn. It was a time of feasting, gift-giving, and the temporary reversal of social roles. During Saturnalia, slaves and masters would switch places, and businesses and schools would be closed.
Winter Solstice Celebrations: Many ancient cultures, including the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans, celebrated the winter solstice with feasts and festivals. The winter solstice, which occurs around December 21st, marks the shortest day of the year and the beginning of the winter season. It was believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth, and many ancient cultures celebrated the solstice with feasts and festivals.
Inti Raymi: This was a festival that was celebrated by the ancient Inca people in Peru. Inti Raymi was a time of feasting and sacrifice that was held in honor of the sun god, Inti. It was believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth, and it was often associated with the winter solstice.
Dongzhi Festival: This is a festival that is still celebrated today in China and other parts of East Asia. Dongzhi Festival, also known as the Winter Solstice Festival, is a time of feasting and the exchange of gifts. It is believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth, and it is often associated with the winter solstice.
Hōzuki Matsuri: This is a festival that is celebrated in Japan during the winter solstice. Hōzuki Matsuri, also known as the Chinese Lantern Festival, is a time of feasting and the display of lanterns made from the hōzuki plant. It is believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth, and it is often associated with the winter solstice.
Dies Natalis Solis Invicti: This was a Roman festival that was held in honor of the sun god, Sol Invictus. It was celebrated on December 25th, and it was believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth. The festival of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti may have influenced the early Christian church’s decision to celebrate Christmas on December 25th.
Kalends: This was a festival that was celebrated by the ancient Romans on the first day of each month. The Kalends were a time of feasting, gift-giving, and the exchange of New Year’s greetings. It is possible that the early Christian church may have incorporated elements of the Kalends into the celebration of Christmas.
Brumalia: This was a Roman festival that was held in honor of Dionysus, the god of wine and fertility. It was a time of feasting and the exchange of gifts, and it took place around the time of the winter solstice. It is possible that the early Christian church may have incorporated elements of the Brumalia into the celebration of Christmas.
What Was Happening In The British Isles?
Very little is known. Some historians believe that the ancient Celts may have celebrated the winter solstice with the festival of Samhain, which was a time of feasting, gift-giving, and the honoring of ancestors. Samhain was believed to be a time when the boundaries between the living and the dead were blurred, and it was a time when the Celts believed that the spirits of the dead could return to the mortal world. Some historians believe that the festival of Samhain may have been incorporated into the Christian celebration of All Saints’ Day and All Souls’ Day, which are observed on November 1st and 2nd, respectively.
What Was The Significance Of December 25th In The Roman Calendar?
In the (Julian) Roman calendar, December 25th was a significant date because it was the day of the winter solstice, which marked the shortest day of the year and the beginning of the winter season. The winter solstice was a time of celebration in many ancient cultures, and it was believed to be a time of renewal and rebirth. Many ancient cultures celebrated the solstice with feasts and festivals, and it is possible that the early Christian church may have chosen December 25th as the date for Christmas in order to co-opt these pagan celebrations and give them a Christian significance.
Of Course It Is The Case That The Whole World Anticipated Jesus
Why should Jesus not have been born on this day?
I might seem seem perfect – therefor do.

https://wordaloud.co.uk/audio/kjv/w...lebrations-death-renewal/jesus-prayer-christ/
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,985
1,415
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Midwest
#28
it is possible that the early Christian church may have chosen December 25th as the date for Christmas in order to co-opt these pagan celebrations and give them a Christian significance.
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