Was Kanye Predestined to become a Christian or No?

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Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
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#2
Because it's just the same old predestination debate. Using a celebrity doesn't make it any different. And most on this site don't seem too interested in celebs.
 
M

MegMarch

Guest
#3
Theologically speaking, Augustine would argue that he heartless while Pelagius would refute that he is a gold digger and has paved his way to Christian ideals.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
2,416
2,665
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#4
Hello @Desdichado, if Kanye is truly born again, then yes, God predestined him to adoption* as one of His sons.

*(do you know of a Biblical example of someone coming to saving faith in Christ ~apart~ from God predestining them?)

Thanks!

~Deut
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,753
801
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#5
Has God Predestined the Rage Against The Machine guitarist, Tom Morello?

With a pocket full of shells?
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
2,416
2,665
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#6
Has God Predestined the Rage Against The Machine guitarist, Tom Morello?

With a pocket full of shells?
I have no idea who or what any of that is. Well, except the "shell" thing (but do you mean shotgun shells or seashells :unsure:).

God "ordains" whatsoever comes to pass in this world 1. by causing it to happen or 2. by allowing it to happen (sin falls into this category), and perhaps 3. by not allowing something to happen. God's "foreordination" and "predestination" are not the same thing however. God "predestines" to life (never to "rage") all who are to become His children by adoption, those to whom He will give eternal life, which is a decision that He made concerning us before we were even born (from everlasting, actually :)) .. Jeremiah 31:3; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:4-6.

~Deut
 

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
6,194
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Arizona
#7
Well yeah just like any person if he indeed gave his life to Christ. Based on the gossip of him wanting to change his name to “christian billionaire” I’m not so sure. But that may be just gossip.

Just like Saul and his crazy conversion, God knows.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
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#8
Surprised nobody has brought this up yet.
First, we aren't sure he is a Christian. He has said some things that I wouldn't think are Christian. Additionally, he's taken it upon himself to criticize the Church as a guy who has only been saved a few months? As a young believer, I had a lot more humility toward older Christians than he does.

Christians are too quick to hang celebrities on the wall as war trophies, and then they eventually turn away, proving they were not. In fact, Larry Flynt, the Hustler magazine guy, supposedly converted and then revealed his true colors by continuing in his sinfulness.

Justin Bieber is another one..there are beliefs he has that don't align with orthodox Christianity.

He could be a slow learner or perhaps he is saved. I don't know.

Second, if he is a Christian, then he is one of the elect that has been given to the Son.

Who knows?

Is he Larry Flynt (professor of faith) or is he Kirk Cameron (possessor of faith)? Time will tell.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
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#9
First, we aren't sure he is a Christian. He has said some things that I wouldn't think are Christian. Additionally, he's taken it upon himself to criticize the Church as a guy who has only been saved a few months? As a young believer, I had a lot more humility toward older Christians than he does.

Christians are too quick to hang celebrities on the wall as war trophies, and then they eventually turn away, proving they were not. In fact, Larry Flynt, the Hustler magazine guy, supposedly converted and then revealed his true colors by continuing in his sinfulness.

Justin Bieber is another one..there are beliefs he has that don't align with orthodox Christianity.

He could be a slow learner or perhaps he is saved. I don't know.

Second, if he is a Christian, then he is one of the elect that has been given to the Son.

Who knows?

Is he Larry Flynt (professor of faith) or is he Kirk Cameron (possessor of faith)? Time will tell.
Very sober and objective point of view UWC! Very good insight and caution!
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
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#10
Very sober and objective point of view UWC! Very good insight and caution!
I just found this on my facebook feed:

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-kanye-should-know-about-joel-osteen/

Apparently Kanye is friends with Joel Osteen, and is going to perform at his church.

Osteen is a well-known prosperity preacher.

Again, perhaps he is an immature believer and is being misled, as I have heard that he has attended a decent church, at least at one time. However, I wouldn't want to perform for Joel Osteen's congregation, unless I planned some strongly evangelistic message.
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#11
We really can't make a judgement call on another person
we may feel we have enough information to lean to one view
but that person may be just about to be saved, or may be converted sometime in the future
It is the Lord that saves, so we can pray for someone who is on our mind.
We should examine ourselves and be concerned about our own walk with God.
I am sure that if we examine ourselves carefully we will find many instances
where we have said or done thing not particularly perfect as our Lord would have us do.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
43
#12
We really can't make a judgement call on another person
we may feel we have enough information to lean to one view
but that person may be just about to be saved, or may be converted sometime in the future
It is the Lord that saves, so we can pray for someone who is on our mind.
We should examine ourselves and be concerned about our own walk with God.
I am sure that if we examine ourselves carefully we will find many instances
where we have said or done thing not particularly perfect as our Lord would have us do.
Hi ieuan, no, if I've understood UWC correctly, I'm in accord with him, I was from day one skeptical of Kanye's conversion. I didn't see the contrition, the humility, the realization of the shame of his former ways. I don't expect complete depression or humiliation, but a sobriety in his demeanor and more wisdom in his speech, not clichés and frivolous joy.
In other words, it is a Godly insight to be able to discern insincerity, ulterior motives, and any type of falsehoods. Jesus and the apostles blew the cover of many charlatans and wolves in sheep's clothing throughout the New Testament, not to mention the countless exhortations for the church to be vigilante and to do the same.
Yes, as you said, we're all guilty of falling short, but there is typically an overt difference between one who is trying or sincere, and one who makes excuses and is in it for shallow gain.
I would be thrilled if he was saved, for it would make me believe that there's hope for more people than i might've given credit to.
But on the same note, it's somewhat shameful, and extremely precarious to be naive as a Christian also, for heresies and bad exposure have defamed the church for centuries.
Don't let the wolves into the flock, scrutinize everyone with Godly wisdom!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#13
Maybe Kanye meant to say Je$u$ i$ King? Huge marketing opportunity?

Next? Off to Osteens gathering.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,753
801
113
#14
Nah. You can make a judgment call on somebody.

Epstein didn't kill himself. Epstein is also in Hell.

We really can't make a judgement call on another person
we may feel we have enough information to lean to one view
but that person may be just about to be saved, or may be converted sometime in the future
It is the Lord that saves, so we can pray for someone who is on our mind.
We should examine ourselves and be concerned about our own walk with God.
I am sure that if we examine ourselves carefully we will find many instances
where we have said or done thing not particularly perfect as our Lord would have us do.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
43
#15
I just found this on my facebook feed:

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-kanye-should-know-about-joel-osteen/

Apparently Kanye is friends with Joel Osteen, and is going to perform at his church.

Osteen is a well-known prosperity preacher.

Again, perhaps he is an immature believer and is being misled, as I have heard that he has attended a decent church, at least at one time. However, I wouldn't want to perform for Joel Osteen's congregation, unless I planned some strongly evangelistic message.
Well, I'm not holding my breathe, never was, and can't see it in the future, not for him.
The church was extremely skeptical about Paul's conversion, and rightly so, that it took rather remarkable evidence to convince them before they embraced his authenticity.
Joel Osteen, ...yes, maybe being mislead, ...or another nail in the coffin, ...do I need to tell you which way that I'm leaning (by my last 2 posts)?
Again, I'd be thrilled if he's saved, one more troublemaker turned godly and useful, ....but, prudence before emotions.
Thanks again UWC!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,596
10,569
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#18
Again, perhaps he is an immature believer and is being misled, as I have heard that he has attended a decent church, at least at one time.
imagine how hard it is to be him, and follow Christ

but with God, all things are possible
i've been praying for him for 8 years. still am. praying for Jeremiah Givens, too

 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#20
imagine how hard it is to be him, and follow Christ

but with God, all things are possible
i've been praying for him for 8 years. still am. praying for Jeremiah Givens, too

I don't know who Jeremiah Givens is, but it is good that you are praying for them :)

Yeah, it would be hard as a celebrity because unscrupulous folks want to associate themselves with him, and some are wolves.