Was Paul a Torah observant Jew?
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James 2: 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Leviticus 11
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
Leviticus 11
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
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What brought this scripture to my mind was a post stating that Paul taught that Christ separates us from all worldly laws. While it is true that Christ took away the law in stone and now the law is of the spirit, it is the same law but in our hearts.
Paul's teaching is hard to understand, but Paul was of Christ, and it helps understand him when we know Paul never opposed Christ. Many think Paul cancelled the ten commandments, and Christ did change them from laws in stone to laws in the spirit. But it seems to me it is an error to think that we are separated from the law or that Paul taught that.
This scripture points out that although our sins are not judged for salvation, we are judged by our works.That judgment has nothing to do with salvation, but it does have to do with rewards given us and whether we are great in the kingdom of heaven.
Paul's teaching is hard to understand, but Paul was of Christ, and it helps understand him when we know Paul never opposed Christ. Many think Paul cancelled the ten commandments, and Christ did change them from laws in stone to laws in the spirit. But it seems to me it is an error to think that we are separated from the law or that Paul taught that.
This scripture points out that although our sins are not judged for salvation, we are judged by our works.That judgment has nothing to do with salvation, but it does have to do with rewards given us and whether we are great in the kingdom of heaven.
I am sorry you are having such trouble understanding Paul's saying we are not under law. To understand this we need to accept every word of scripture as truth, and at no time does God say God was wrong. Christ told us to obey, and many verse speak of this. It is truth we are not under law, it is truth that we are to obey and to do that we meed to know what to obey and that is in the spirit of the law. All scripture is truth.
Perhaps your minister can help you understand this?
Perhaps your minister can help you understand this?
My ministers are scripture and the Holy Spirit. He never fails, and the Word is everlasting.
1 Timothy 1 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
1 Timothy 1 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
Why do you write this sort of thing?
You've deviated from discussing Scripture into a form of accusatory rant.
No-one has ever obeyed the Law in its entirety; the Law was designed so that all would fall short, and thus
feel convicted , and thus feel the necessity for a 'better way', one that actually worked.
See Romans 7 - in fact I would counsel you to read Romans many times.
You've deviated from discussing Scripture into a form of accusatory rant.
No-one has ever obeyed the Law in its entirety; the Law was designed so that all would fall short, and thus
feel convicted , and thus feel the necessity for a 'better way', one that actually worked.
See Romans 7 - in fact I would counsel you to read Romans many times.
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I hate when work draws me away for a few days...sorry for the late reply. You once told me you don't read long post so I'm breaking this up into smaller ones.
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No, sir. Paul is contrasting two thoughts regarding faith in Messiah: between voiding and establishing the law.
a) Voiding - means to nullify; to make no longer valid or legally binding.
b) Establishing - means to setup on a firm and permanent basis.
We know this because earlier in the chapter Paul is literally debating the same argument Christians are having with regards to obeying the law: should we try to or sin (which he notes others have lied to say he was teaching; Rom 3:8)? He weighs both concepts. So let's add these definitions to the text...
Romans 3:31 [brackets mine]
Do we then [make no longer valid or legally binding] the law through faith [in the Messiah]? God forbid: yea, we [setup on a firm and permanent basis] the law.
When we have Christians suggest the law is nullified through faith in Messiah they're contradicting Paul's words here^ because Paul wasn't preaching against the law.
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Imagine building a tower - beams and all - but never pouring the foundation for that structure. The structure would be weak and topple over easily. The law was weak without the foundation that is Messiah and so Israel toppled over into sin easily. It's the concept Paul is referring to when he says the foundation is Christ, but to watch what one builds on that foundation - precious metals vs straw - because the day (of fire) will declare the worth of the believer's work (1 Corinthians 3:13).
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No, sir. Paul is contrasting two thoughts regarding faith in Messiah: between voiding and establishing the law.
a) Voiding - means to nullify; to make no longer valid or legally binding.
b) Establishing - means to setup on a firm and permanent basis.
We know this because earlier in the chapter Paul is literally debating the same argument Christians are having with regards to obeying the law: should we try to or sin (which he notes others have lied to say he was teaching; Rom 3:8)? He weighs both concepts. So let's add these definitions to the text...
Romans 3:31 [brackets mine]
Do we then [make no longer valid or legally binding] the law through faith [in the Messiah]? God forbid: yea, we [setup on a firm and permanent basis] the law.
When we have Christians suggest the law is nullified through faith in Messiah they're contradicting Paul's words here^ because Paul wasn't preaching against the law.
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Imagine building a tower - beams and all - but never pouring the foundation for that structure. The structure would be weak and topple over easily. The law was weak without the foundation that is Messiah and so Israel toppled over into sin easily. It's the concept Paul is referring to when he says the foundation is Christ, but to watch what one builds on that foundation - precious metals vs straw - because the day (of fire) will declare the worth of the believer's work (1 Corinthians 3:13).
[Part 2]
The critical thesis of Romans chapter 3 is here...
Romans 3:18-21
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
The phrase: "(one) Under the Law" DOES NOT MEAN "(one) under it's jurisdiction or only those to whom the law applies". Rather it means "(one who's) guilty for breaking the law; a sinner". That's everybody. This is why the rest of the verse says "and ALL THE WORLD may become guilty".
The law was given to show that sin/crime against Almighty is...but that doesn't mean the law disappears once it's done that job...just like a speed limit on a highway was meant to show what's an illegal speed is on that highway. Just because you know the rules doesn't mean take down the sign.
Thus in the case of Almighty's law, all sinners; all the world begins "under the law" (i.e. guilty).
Under the law: Guilty in its sight
Fulfill the law: Innocent in its sight
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The phrase: "deeds of the law" DOES NOT MEAN "everything written in the law". Rather, it means "those SPECIFIC ACTS of the law" ADDED for justifying/cleansing/setting right the record of the sinner (i.e. sacrifices, rituals, fleshy circumcisions, death of offending party, etc.) The payments for crime.
This is no different than a speeding ticket, jail time, capital punishment, offender registry, etc in purpose. It's the ACT one must do to pay for the broken law.
The law: Speed limit to be obeyed
The deed/work of that law: the speeding ticket that you must pay if caught speeding to set your guilty record straight
The Law: The Commandments to be obeyed
The deed/works of the law: the sacrifices, rituals, fleshy circumcisions, death of offending party, etc. that you must pay if commandments broken
Notice: A person who's already guilty can't then obey the law they broke to clear their record. They must pay. the price themselves or be forgiven. Additionally, those "deeds" written in the law - that were added as "placeholders" - couldn't actually cleans/set right/justify anyhow.
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The phrase "without the law" DOES NOT MEAN "instead of with the law". Rather, it simply means "outside of the law's written placeholders" righteousness of God is made known (i.e. the work of the Messiah), which the law bears witness to (because its "placeholders" prophesied of what Messiah would do).
Paul isn't pitting the law against the righteousness of God.
The critical thesis of Romans chapter 3 is here...
Romans 3:18-21
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
The phrase: "(one) Under the Law" DOES NOT MEAN "(one) under it's jurisdiction or only those to whom the law applies". Rather it means "(one who's) guilty for breaking the law; a sinner". That's everybody. This is why the rest of the verse says "and ALL THE WORLD may become guilty".
The law was given to show that sin/crime against Almighty is...but that doesn't mean the law disappears once it's done that job...just like a speed limit on a highway was meant to show what's an illegal speed is on that highway. Just because you know the rules doesn't mean take down the sign.
Thus in the case of Almighty's law, all sinners; all the world begins "under the law" (i.e. guilty).
Under the law: Guilty in its sight
Fulfill the law: Innocent in its sight
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The phrase: "deeds of the law" DOES NOT MEAN "everything written in the law". Rather, it means "those SPECIFIC ACTS of the law" ADDED for justifying/cleansing/setting right the record of the sinner (i.e. sacrifices, rituals, fleshy circumcisions, death of offending party, etc.) The payments for crime.
This is no different than a speeding ticket, jail time, capital punishment, offender registry, etc in purpose. It's the ACT one must do to pay for the broken law.
The law: Speed limit to be obeyed
The deed/work of that law: the speeding ticket that you must pay if caught speeding to set your guilty record straight
The Law: The Commandments to be obeyed
The deed/works of the law: the sacrifices, rituals, fleshy circumcisions, death of offending party, etc. that you must pay if commandments broken
Notice: A person who's already guilty can't then obey the law they broke to clear their record. They must pay. the price themselves or be forgiven. Additionally, those "deeds" written in the law - that were added as "placeholders" - couldn't actually cleans/set right/justify anyhow.
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The phrase "without the law" DOES NOT MEAN "instead of with the law". Rather, it simply means "outside of the law's written placeholders" righteousness of God is made known (i.e. the work of the Messiah), which the law bears witness to (because its "placeholders" prophesied of what Messiah would do).
Paul isn't pitting the law against the righteousness of God.
[Part 3/End]
"Made perfect" here is referring to setting one's guilty record straight. The deeds/works (see post above) can't do this, only faith in Messiah can.
The Galatians started through faith in Messiah for CLEARING THEIR GUILTY RECORD with Almighty, yes...but then started going back to the "placeholder" remedies for clearing record (i.e. the sacrifices, rituals, fleshy circumcisions, separations, death of offending party, etc.).
This is why Paul rebuked Peter earlier in the chapter, because he also started separating himself from gentile believers as if they were "unclean" again. That's a placeholder cleansing rite that prophesied Messiah's cleansing work. It had nothing to do with the portion of your quote in red. Paul gives the context.
These things are NOT Paul preaching against the law (as explained above).
Paul is explaining that the law was wasn't given to set a person right. No law given in any society is done so to set a person right. Law is given to show what crime/sin is. The acts of the law were then added as placeholders to prophesy what the Messiah would do to actually set a person right.
Anyone who still tries to do those placeholders to set themselves right are not believing in the Messiah and so are still guilty.
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Once one is set right through faith in Messiah (Justification) they are expected to obey the commandments in their rightness using the gifts and guidance of the Holy Spirit and Grace (Sanctification). Then when Messiah comes those who are sanctified will receive the reward (Glorification), while the rest who just had faith (Justified) but aren't sanctified will still get through but won't get the reward.
"Made perfect" here is referring to setting one's guilty record straight. The deeds/works (see post above) can't do this, only faith in Messiah can.
The Galatians started through faith in Messiah for CLEARING THEIR GUILTY RECORD with Almighty, yes...but then started going back to the "placeholder" remedies for clearing record (i.e. the sacrifices, rituals, fleshy circumcisions, separations, death of offending party, etc.).
This is why Paul rebuked Peter earlier in the chapter, because he also started separating himself from gentile believers as if they were "unclean" again. That's a placeholder cleansing rite that prophesied Messiah's cleansing work. It had nothing to do with the portion of your quote in red. Paul gives the context.
These things are NOT Paul preaching against the law (as explained above).
Paul is explaining that the law was wasn't given to set a person right. No law given in any society is done so to set a person right. Law is given to show what crime/sin is. The acts of the law were then added as placeholders to prophesy what the Messiah would do to actually set a person right.
Anyone who still tries to do those placeholders to set themselves right are not believing in the Messiah and so are still guilty.
-----
Once one is set right through faith in Messiah (Justification) they are expected to obey the commandments in their rightness using the gifts and guidance of the Holy Spirit and Grace (Sanctification). Then when Messiah comes those who are sanctified will receive the reward (Glorification), while the rest who just had faith (Justified) but aren't sanctified will still get through but won't get the reward.
