Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?

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Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Is this what you are looking for?

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
This is a recorded comment by Jesus. I asked for scriptures of water baptisms that were performed using the formula.
 

Ignorun

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Dec 18, 2018
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Respectfully, things have not changed. Jesus said He is the same today, yesterday and forevermore. God's Word is established.
Devils are cast out in Jesus' name. His power still applies today. Upon asking for and receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost speaking in an unknown tongue occurs on a daily basis throughout the world. I was recently healed by following the Word's instruction to call for prayer by the elders of the church. A complete healing of a medical problem that hindered my life for the past 14 years took place with no pain medication withdrawal and no adverse side effects. As far as drinking something deadly that had no effect --only God knows. And of course I wouldn't tempt God by messing with any serpents.

I know that God's Word is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. If people are not experiencing what is recorded within its pages you can be guaranteed the fault is not on God's end.

Jesus said to ask the Father for the Holy Spirit and He will give it:
"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:9-13
I find myself in agreement with much of what you have written in various posts in this thread. But in your above response, the challenge (appropriately) presented earlier by DJ has not been met. For various reasons, I doubt that it can be.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Your saying they are required for salvation. And your wrong..

And yes, I have a problem with people espousing a false gospel of works
Your saying they are required for salvation. And your wrong..

And yes, I have a problem with people espousing a false gospel of works
The scriptures noted show
God told Abraham that the person not circumcised had broken the covenant and would not be considered part of God's family.
Second, the angel of the Lord was going to kill Moses for not circumcising his son.
I did not place this information in the bible God inspired these accounts to be recorded.
 

Wansvic

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I find myself in agreement with much of what you have written in various posts in this thread. But in your above response, the challenge (appropriately) presented earlier by DJ has not been met. For various reasons, I doubt that it can be.
I don't know to what challenge you are referring.
 

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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This is a recorded comment by Jesus. I asked for scriptures of water baptisms that were performed using the formula.
I don't recall ANY baptism ceremonies recorded in scripture that outline the particulars.
Baptisms in Jesus' name were referred to as such to differentiate between the Baptisms of John.
Why are you so quick to dismiss Jesus' command concerning this? Are you anti-trinitarian?

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
 

Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
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I don't know to what challenge you are referring.
From #239 "Show me the believers with those signs. Or maybe you would like to cast out some devils, speak in a language you’ve never learned, use your gift of healing, take up a deadly serpent, and drink something deadly?"
I call it a challenge. I think it's rhetorical. But the challenge is there.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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You’re making the common mistake of assuming everywhere you see baptism you read water into it. Consider a word study on this in the New Testament and you will see it doesn’t always mean immersion with water involved.
I have a PC Study Bible Software that includes a substantial amount of bible translations, commentaries, Strong's greek and hebrew, multiple dictionaries, etc.
I do study thoroughly.
Each scripture I have quoted pertains to water baptism as defined in the Strong's.
I do not pick and choose scriptures that I "think" fit a discussed topic, and have, and do study before putting anything out there as we are going to be held responsible for our witness to others.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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I don't recall ANY baptism ceremonies recorded in scripture that outline the particulars.
Baptisms in Jesus' name were referred to as such to differentiate between the Baptisms of John.
Why are you so quick to dismiss Jesus' command concerning this? Are you anti-trinitarian?

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
As I have mentioned many times we are told that a concept in the Word must be established by at least 2-3 witnesses within the pages of the bible. All recorded water baptisms were performed using the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is not one occurrence when the formula was used. Therefore, Jesus had to have meant that His name was to be used. Because the disciples would have never done something against what He told them.

The Word also expresses that all people that were water baptized by John the Baptist had to be re-baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus after His death, burial, and resurrection. Why? Because there is power in the name of Jesus.

The Word also states that everything done in word and deed was to be done in Jesus' name.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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I don't recall ANY baptism ceremonies recorded in scripture that outline the particulars.
The following is the list of recorded water baptisms: Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16.
 

Wansvic

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From #239 "Show me the believers with those signs. Or maybe you would like to cast out some devils, speak in a language you’ve never learned, use your gift of healing, take up a deadly serpent, and drink something deadly?"
I call it a challenge. I think it's rhetorical. But the challenge is there.
Post 242 is my response.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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From #239 "Show me the believers with those signs. Or maybe you would like to cast out some devils, speak in a language you’ve never learned, use your gift of healing, take up a deadly serpent, and drink something deadly?"
I call it a challenge. I think it's rhetorical. But the challenge is there.
Post 239 was my response. And it is quoted in 242 as well.
 
Jan 9, 2019
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Hello DJ
Good point. I hope you don't mind me responding. You have another one you are discussing with.
I haven't been able to read all the previous posts. If you would like me to bow out, that's fine.
You make a good point, again.
My response would be: The miraculous portion that you (appropriately) present as a challenge does not parallel the doctrine concerning baptism. The miraculous signs would cease. But that does not mean that the doctrine of those who used those signs would necessarily change.
I appreciate the discussion! I may not be able to respond to any and every post as my available time to dedicate to this is sparse but by all means, feel free.

You also make a good point, but I'll continue a bit further.

Baptism is a complete identifications with some thing or person. We are identified with His death and resurrection (Rom 6:3-5, Gal 2:20) and that not because of getting dunked in water.

There are 3 parts to every baptism. Who is the baptizer? With/into what? For what purpose? There are at least a "few baptisms" in the bible and not all of them are wet. Hebrews 6:2 refers to the "doctrine of baptisms".

Paul says there is now ONE baptism (Eph 4:5) which is by the Spirit into Christ. (1 Cor 12:13) If we were to make this one with water it would be the only earthly element in the list. If it is water baptism why wouldn't the ONE baptism be by the Spirit into Christ?
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Not trying to be rude when I say this :)

But I will try and answer your question if you will first answer this.

Continue the next verse in Mark you posted.

Mark 16:17-18 KJV
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Show me the believers with those signs. Or maybe you would like to cast out some devils, speak in a language you’ve never learned, use your gift of healing, take up a deadly serpent, and drink something deadly?

I didn’t think so ;)

My point is, something has changed.
Remember the words you are questioning were stated from Jesus' own mouth. Jesus also stated what mankind would do once Jesus ascended into heaven:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

We become endued with power and speak in tongues via the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Devils are cast out in Jesus' name.
Healing occurs in Jesus' name.
The very things you are questioning, Jesus said would take place and do each and every day.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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342
63
I

Paul says there is now ONE baptism (Eph 4:5) which is by the Spirit into Christ. (1 Cor 12:13) If we were to make this one with water it would be the only earthly element in the list. If it is water baptism why wouldn't the ONE baptism be by the Spirit into Christ?
In verse 4 Paul mentions one body, and one Spirit, and continues in verse 5 to say there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. The Stong's indicates that the baptism in verse 5 is water baptism.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph 4:4-5

The distinction is made about one baptism because there had been numerous purification washings prior to the New Testament water baptism.
 
Jan 9, 2019
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Remember the words you are questioning were stated from Jesus' own mouth. Jesus also stated what mankind would do once Jesus ascended into heaven:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

We become endued with power and speak in tongues via the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Devils are cast out in Jesus' name.
Healing occurs in Jesus' name.
The very things you are questioning, Jesus said would take place and do each and every day.
"Do all speak in tongues"? No. All those signs in Mark, after Jesus said to the Eleven, go ye into all the world... Guess what, they did not go into the world. God started something new, a mystery kept secret since the world began, and Paul his chief enemy was raised up to be the apostle to the Gentiles. The Twelve after Pentecost agreed in Acts 15 that Paul would go. Their commission was coming to an end and they continued ministering to the circumcision. The last 2000 years has not been a Pentecostal my friend. God is longsuffering to a world who rejects him, and when the times of the Gentiles comes to it's fulness, then Israel's 'program' will continue and all Israel shall be saved.
 
Jan 9, 2019
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In verse 4 Paul mentions one body, and one Spirit, and continues in verse 5 to say there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. The Stong's indicates that the baptism in verse 5 is water baptism.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph 4:4-5

The distinction is made about one baptism because there had been numerous purification washings prior to the New Testament water baptism.

My friend, Strong's is not authoritative in all matters, but scripture is. The only baptism that matters to me is the one that placed me into Christ. Peace.
 

Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
180
69
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Remember the words you are questioning were stated from Jesus' own mouth. Jesus also stated what mankind would do once Jesus ascended into heaven:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

We become endued with power and speak in tongues via the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Devils are cast out in Jesus' name.
Healing occurs in Jesus' name.
The very things you are questioning, Jesus said would take place and do each and every day.
Again, I agree with much of what you have written previously. But I do not believe the above response meets DJ's challenge. In fact, it can't be met.

Let's suppose DJ is correct about the cessation of the spiritual gifts. Does that cessation/change necessarily suggest that the "formula" for baptism changed? That's DJ's argument. To which I disagree. The reason is that the gifts are not doctrine. They are a means to an end, but not the end themselves. The end is truth. Just because the gifts cease/change does not mean the baptismal formula changed. That's my understanding.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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"Do all speak in tongues"? No. All those signs in Mark, after Jesus said to the Eleven, go ye into all the world... Guess what, they did not go into the world. God started something new, a mystery kept secret since the world began, and Paul his chief enemy was raised up to be the apostle to the Gentiles. The Twelve after Pentecost agreed in Acts 15 that Paul would go. Their commission was coming to an end and they continued ministering to the circumcision. The last 2000 years has not been a Pentecostal my friend. God is longsuffering to a world who rejects him, and when the times of the Gentiles comes to it's fulness, then Israel's 'program' will continue and all Israel shall be saved.
Paul speaks of two types of tongues:
There is speaking in tongues upon the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost.
And there is the Spiritual gift of tongues for the edification of the church.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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My friend, Strong's is not authoritative in all matters, but scripture is. The only baptism that matters to me is the one that placed me into Christ. Peace.
As posted, the Word in verse 4 mentions the Spirit
verse 5 goes on to mention the one baptism.
 
Jan 9, 2019
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Paul speaks of two types of tongues:
There is speaking in tongues upon the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost.
And there is the Spiritual gift of tongues for the edification of the church.
Wow, if tongues as you say are basically proof that we are saved then just about all of us are damned. The claim is just ridiculous and unfounded.