We already have peace with God

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1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,214
832
113
#41
We can be at peace in God no matter what we go through in this world. We have peace in that we know Him in whom we have believed. No matter what we face in this world, we know that God has promised that he will never leave us or forsake us.

We all will face our own trials, troubles, and tribulations in the world, but we have peace in them knowing that no matter what happens Jesus is with us a better home. This world is not our home. We have a promised and better home and there is peace in believing and putting our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Lion222

Active member
Jul 6, 2020
557
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#42
The JW's do not believe Jesus was God.
I love it when they come by. I usually invite them in for bible study. The first thing I read from the Bible is John 1.
When I ask them to read along in their bible, it reads different. Because they added to the scripture one word, one letter that changes the entire meaning. They believe that Jesus was A god, like we can all be gods. When I bring up the words of Jesus that say HE and the Father are ONE, they usually stutter and try to claim that means 'one in thought', on the same page.
They get tired of me pointing out their false doctrine and excuse themselves fairly quickly.
Matter of fact, haven't heard the doorbell on a Saturday morning in quite a while.
The Word of God is a sword and I use it to defend against the lies of Satan.
if that is the error on one side of the narrow path, what does the error on the other side of this perspective look like?
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,214
832
113
#43
John 14
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Colossians 3
15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
 
Jul 22, 2020
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earth.
#44
if that is the error on one side of the narrow path, what does the error on the other side of this perspective look like?
I don't know of what 'error' (singular) you speak of. There are many errors in the various man-made. denominations. The list is long.
Give me a hint.
 

Lion222

Active member
Jul 6, 2020
557
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#45
I don't know of what 'error' (singular) you speak of. There are many errors in the various man-made. denominations. The list is long.
Give me a hint.
They believe that Jesus was A god, like we can all be gods.
 
Jul 22, 2020
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earth.
#46
They believe that Jesus was A god, like we can all be gods.
I know what the error in their doctrine is, I was wondering what you meant by the perspective on the other side of the narrow path?
 

Lion222

Active member
Jul 6, 2020
557
176
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#47
Well every path has an error on the right and on the left.
If we can see them both we are usually on the path.
but if we are off in one or the other the path and the error on one side look the same from our prospective.
So it is good to be sure you can see and describe the opposite error.
That all, just a practice of mine.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,710
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#48
Evening all.

I saw the subject line earleir today and I got quite enthused by it.

What I am about to post may not be relevant and maybe detract from the intent of this post and subsequent posts. If it does then please let me know and maybe it may be a new thread to start. Either way I will not be offended but for me personally it is important.

So the subject line is "We already have peace with God"

Truth is for me for most of my Christian life I did not have this peace.

Here is the verse I read many many times.

Romans 5:1

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now as a person who suffers from severe anxiety I read into this verse because of my severe anxiety I had no peace. My anxiety plagued he and still plagues me, although not as much.

For me peace was release from inner turmoil but I couldn't get it.

The result was that I felt I needed to be pefect, work harder and when I got wrong God was going to say "you are off to hell"

No peace at all. Trying to earn my salvation and hopefully appease God to give me peace with him.

I won't go into the details of how the following happened but if we look at the verse I quoted and focus on the word peace and it's meaning.

The word peace actually has nothing to do with feelings.
In fact it means a state of peace instead of being at war.
There is no longer hostility between God and man.
In a sense no emnity between God and us.

That's why Jesus had to die so

Romans 5:2
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

And as a result

Romans 5:3-5
3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

I hope I make some sense as a person who struggled with being at peace with God and having peace in God.

As I said of it detracts from the intent of the post then I apologise.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,422
1,371
113
#49
The JW's do not believe Jesus was God.
I love it when they come by. I usually invite them in for bible study. The first thing I read from the Bible is John 1.
When I ask them to read along in their bible, it reads different. Because they added to the scripture one word, one letter that changes the entire meaning. They believe that Jesus was A god, like we can all be gods. When I bring up the words of Jesus that say HE and the Father are ONE, they usually stutter and try to claim that means 'one in thought', on the same page.
They get tired of me pointing out their false doctrine and excuse themselves fairly quickly.
Matter of fact, haven't heard the doorbell on a Saturday morning in quite a while.
The Word of God is a sword and I use it to defend against the lies of Satan.
They probably warned their congregation about you and to stay away XD
 

Cor

New member
Jul 11, 2020
25
4
3
#50
We already have peace with God because our Lord Jesus Christ is the prince of peace, the one who has made it available for us to be God’s habitation, belonging to the household of God, and to be joint heirs with Christ Jesus. It's his gospel, his church, and he is at peace with God, who made it available for us to be at peace with the spirit of Christ that is in us via the new birth. We already have peace with God because we are connected to the life of Christ Jesus via the spirit that is born within us at the time of our new birth.

To understand the following verses, we will need to understand that those who follow after the flesh, the human carnal thinking that comes from our five senses, will always function according to the same information that comes to those carnal senses. But they that follow after the functions of the spirit from God will function according to the things that belong to the spirit of God. The carnal mind is not set up to understand, function, or to be subject to the things concerning the spirit of God.

Romans 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:7-9
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Like I said before, it's not how to get Christ to live within our natural, carnal, five senses thinking. The carnal mind cannot, it simply cannot, connect with Christ or please God. Have you ever noticed that so many of our churches have a very large list of different human carnal rules and regulations they try to get us to live by? Our churches today have far too many ways they keep trying to get us to redeem ourselves and obtain our own righteousness.

It almost drives me insane to hear them say they are not doing the very thing they are doing—teaching for the truth of God’s Word, the commandments of people. What is spiritual is spiritual, and what is natural is natural, and this is why Christ cannot function within our natural realm. What is spiritual cannot enter the carnal realm and then be subject to the obedience of the natural realm. But we need to come to Christ and let him live within us, as we go into his realm via our spirit from God and walk within his faith, in his love, and in his power.
Hi, I feel like I know what peace is but obviously to me do not feel at peace.
So is it Jesus that is peace with God? And to learn His ways and do them is our peace?

Can you be in Christ and not have peace? I heard my mom say peace came over her, and a friend say she had a moment of peace that came over Her? And I heard Vernon McGee speak of 2 types of peace.
I've had a peace as I went back to a doctor for results. I seen a peace on my sister month before her death.
I've experienced Joy and peace as I sought God twice...that lasted quite awhile. But is it something you should always be enjoying the privilege of. And if it is then what stops us?
 

Lion222

Active member
Jul 6, 2020
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#51
But is it something you should always be enjoying the privilege of. And if it is then what stops us?
Doubt in the love of God.
Our eyes get turned away from Him onto the storms of this life.

The early life of a believer is all just one big lesson in
"Jesus loves me" and "God loves me"

Until it finds it way down into every part of our being.
Then it becomes all about loving Him back and being pleasing in His eyes.
 

Cor

New member
Jul 11, 2020
25
4
3
#52
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15
John 14 is a statement....I heard it explained by an awesome theologian that That the doing comes out of the love. That it is not saying if you love me you will do this for me. Another way I see it is...from this passage...."we are His workmanship created in Christ JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS."
So what does that signify? That the work being done in us will express itself in Love.
Also if you look up keep His command...you may see- keep his sayings...I figure it is those things Jesus taught..
 

Cor

New member
Jul 11, 2020
25
4
3
#53
Doubt in the love of God.
Our eyes get turned away from Him onto the storms of this life.

The early life of a believer is all just one big lesson in
"Jesus loves me" and "God loves me"

Until it finds it way down into every part of our being.
Then it becomes all about loving Him back and being pleasing in His eyes.
Thanks I will search that out....So when God sent His Son to us and Jesus did the will of the father layng His life down for us.... then

Now if we believe this...how should we see it?

Doesn't He still need to forgive us when we sin, and aren't sins said to be forgiven when we walk by the Spirit? And wouldn't you know it when your sins are forgiven? I know that at one point I did.

Therefore if you are not at peace are we not walking by the Spirit...but then it beggs the question of what it means to walk by the Spirit. Is it more mental as what we should believe. And if so then what are we missing that we should believe? And if it means putting away the flesh through the spirit. Does "through the spirit" mean obeying what Jesus says to do?.....
 

Cor

New member
Jul 11, 2020
25
4
3
#54
Is it this simple: Lord you love me and you died for my sins....

Now I do not need to worry about death.
Because I do not need to worry about eternal damnation. I WILL LIVE MY BEST FOR YOU....?

Surely sounds simple, and without an attitude and easy
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,804
1,036
113
#55
Hi, I feel like I know what peace is but obviously to me do not feel at peace.
So is it Jesus that is peace with God? And to learn His ways and do them is our peace?

Can you be in Christ and not have peace? I heard my mom say peace came over her, and a friend say she had a moment of peace that came over Her? And I heard Vernon McGee speak of 2 types of peace.
I've had a peace as I went back to a doctor for results. I seen a peace on my sister month before her death.
I've experienced Joy and peace as I sought God twice...that lasted quite awhile. But is it something you should always be enjoying the privilege of. And if it is then what stops us?
Philippians 4:6-7 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Be careful for nothing = do not be anxious

But in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God = the how of not being anxious.

The result of not being anxious and bringing everything to God is that the peace of God -- which passes all understanding -- shall keep (guard) our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

All I know is that I can be going through difficult times (and we all do and will go through difficulties) and still have peace in my heart and mind. It's truly amazing. When God says this peace passes all understanding, He means it.

This "peace of God" far surpasses our ability to comprehend. How can we have peace in the midst of strife, adversity, suffering, trials, afflictions? All I know is that there are times when God's perfect peace settles in my heart and mind even though there may be confusion going on around me.


I also thought of another verse:

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

I think we just get to the point where we trust God because He has seen us through so many difficult times.

We go through the trials of this life and He sees us through ... so our faith in God is strengthened. Then the next time we face one of life's difficulties, we lean even more into God, and He sees us through ... so again faith strengthened. Eventually we get to the point where we know in our knower that God is with us wherever we go, in whatever circumstances we face, and in place of anxiety, we have peace which passes all understanding.



 

Lion222

Active member
Jul 6, 2020
557
176
43
#56
Thanks I will search that out....So when God sent His Son to us and Jesus did the will of the father layng His life down for us.... then

Now if we believe this...how should we see it?

Doesn't He still need to forgive us when we sin, and aren't sins said to be forgiven when we walk by the Spirit? And wouldn't you know it when your sins are forgiven? I know that at one point I did.

Therefore if you are not at peace are we not walking by the Spirit...but then it beggs the question of what it means to walk by the Spirit. Is it more mental as what we should believe. And if so then what are we missing that we should believe? And if it means putting away the flesh through the spirit. Does "through the spirit" mean obeying what Jesus says to do?.....
Sin is the motives of our hearts, not the works of our hands.
The outward works of sin are transgressions, that is what the cross took care of the judgment that was against us.

But we still have the iniquity of the heart.
This is the salvation work of the Holy Spirit within us.
Sin itself is a matter of the heart and its motives.
If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleans us from all of its unrighteousness.
As we come to trust in Gods love, we go deeper and begin to bring Him with us into our hearts you might say to shine his light.
We ask God to show us our motives behind our actions and He does and we confess them and He forgives.
He also forgives what we do in ignorance but if you want to be cleansed also this is how it works.
His loves helps us face our own hearts of sin and get to the root of why.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#57
If you cant do this [be humble] or you cant repent I would show them the door. Put all the proud out the the fellowship. Does that have a bearing on there salvation, IDK? it could have an impact on the Church and its ability to shine and that could impact many.
Hello again Lion222, C. S. Lewis called the sin of pride, "the great sin", I believe, but choosing to eliminate struggling sinners from the body seems both unwise and harsh, don't you think :unsure:(there is a BIG difference between those who are struggling with a sin and cannot fully repent of it yet, and those who refuse to repent, even though they are able to ... and the Bible provides the means of church discipline for the latter group, the final step being that of excommunication .. Matthew 18:15-17).

That said, the point of church discipline is for 1. the good of the body, and 2. the long-term good (not the harm) of the sinning brother/sister (the hope is always that the discipline imposed would cause them to want to be reconciled and return to full fellowship with us).

You seem to be saying that it is necessary to empty the "hospital" (the church is oft times described as such, as I'm sure you already know) of all of its "sick", so that the Great Physician can provide those of us who are left with a more enriching worship experience. The thing is, if we choose to put those who are "sick" out of the body, how will they ever get well/become sanctified (apart from the church/apart from God)? Quite frankly, if we put those of us who truly need Him out of the church, who will be left :unsure:

Mark 2
17 Jesus said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

You continue.

That is what I was thinking

I was at a week long outdoor biblical concert/conference once.
It was packed the first day or so and people just kept coming.
By mid week all you heard and felt was people complaining about everything and just having a bad attitude overall.
I was like, God this is your Church?
Then the rains came down and the floods came up and most everyone left.
The ones who stayed lost most everything to the flood waters
The new people who came and saw the mess and did not turn and go home, those gave whatever they had to help climbed down into the mud with the rest us to lift us up.


God purified it and the spirit showed up and it was wonderful.
Everybody was dirty and smelled like mud in a farmers field, well fertilized.
We stood knee deep in it and worshiped God
You had to depend on each other locking arm and arm five or more to just get up the slippery trails or you would fall and slid all the way back down.
It was an example in mud and filth of how to do Church.
It only came after all the proud and arrogant ones where removed and She was make pure in sacrifice.


That will be the way of the fellowship I will build if God allows.
I understand what you are saying (experiences like that are simply wonderful/wondrous whenever they happen :)).

However, what a shame that those who were 1. already at the concert and 2. had hoped & needed to draw near to God the most, had to leave before the rest of you were able to experience any sense of Spirit-filled worship :( How much greater would the experience have been (both theirs AND the ones who stayed) if the younger/weaker in Christ (and perhaps the "seekers" in the crowd too) had been able to see how wonderful true, Spirit-filled worship can be :) No doubt many who chose to leave never would have (y)(y)

That said, a special event is one thing, but if God needs to regularly remove (from church) all of His children (or children to be) who are not yet fully sanctified before He will "show up", how will they ever become sanctified :unsure: The church triumphant (in Heaven/on the new earth) will be a place of pure, endless happiness, peace, and worship, but the church militant will always and necessarily be a place for the spiritually sick (those of us who are still somewhat muddy and filthy ... on the inside) to be healed by the Great Physician, and to a lesser degree, by all of the members of the body of Christ (as we are ~all~ both patients AND on staff at the "hospital").

There is also this to consider, if we, as fallen/evil, human parents, do not choose to treat our children in such an unloving manner (dropkick them out the front door whenever they fail to do exactly what we want them to do .. cf Matthew 7:11), why would our loving Abba ever choose to do so :unsure:

~Deut
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,804
1,036
113
#58
That's why Jesus had to die so

Romans 5:2
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

And as a result

Romans 5:3-5
3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

I hope I make some sense as a person who struggled with being at peace with God and having peace in God.

As I said of it detracts from the intent of the post then I apologise.
Hi BillG ... praise God He is working within you to relieve anxiety and I pray that He continues to hold you close as you cast more and more of your cares to Him and He fills your heart and mind with His peace, the peace that passes all understanding.

I am actually glad and thankful that you have brought vss 2-5 to our attention. This section (Rom 5:1-5) is great Scripture to hold in our minds. God working in the situations in our lives where we face tribulation, and us knowing that He is working, is another factor which brings peace to our hearts and minds.

In vs 3, the word "tribulation" is the Greek word thlipsis, which is pressure, affliction, distress. As we go through times of affliction, perseverance is worked in us.

The word "perseverance" is the Greek word hypomonḗ, (from 5259 /hypó, "under" and 3306 /ménō, "remain, endure") – remaining under, endurance; steadfastness, especially as God enables the believer to "remain (endure) under" the challenges He allots in life [HELPS Word-studies].

In vs 4, the word "character" is the Greek word dokimé, (from 1384 dókimos. Dókimos) was used for the proving (testing) of coins, i.e. confirming they were genuine (not counterfeit, corrupted).

And all this working in our lives works hope ... expectation, trust, confidence ... in us.

So God uses the times of affliction we face in this life to work perseverance in our lives and perseverance proves us and confirms our genuine steadfast faith. And all this works expectation that God will work in us in our times of affliction and this builds our trust in Him to continue to work in us so that we have confidence in Him.

And hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us - Rom 5:5.

We truly do have reason to glory in tribulations - Rom 5:3 when we take time to consider all that is being worked in us even as we go through stressful times!!! :cool:



 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,422
1,371
113
#59
Evening all.

I saw the subject line earleir today and I got quite enthused by it.

What I am about to post may not be relevant and maybe detract from the intent of this post and subsequent posts. If it does then please let me know and maybe it may be a new thread to start. Either way I will not be offended but for me personally it is important.

So the subject line is "We already have peace with God"

Truth is for me for most of my Christian life I did not have this peace.

Here is the verse I read many many times.

Romans 5:1

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now as a person who suffers from severe anxiety I read into this verse because of my severe anxiety I had no peace. My anxiety plagued he and still plagues me, although not as much.

For me peace was release from inner turmoil but I couldn't get it.

The result was that I felt I needed to be pefect, work harder and when I got wrong God was going to say "you are off to hell"

No peace at all. Trying to earn my salvation and hopefully appease God to give me peace with him.

I won't go into the details of how the following happened but if we look at the verse I quoted and focus on the word peace and it's meaning.

The word peace actually has nothing to do with feelings.
In fact it means a state of peace instead of being at war.
There is no longer hostility between God and man.
In a sense no emnity between God and us.

That's why Jesus had to die so

Romans 5:2
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

And as a result

Romans 5:3-5
3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

I hope I make some sense as a person who struggled with being at peace with God and having peace in God.

As I said of it detracts from the intent of the post then I apologise.
I never thought of it like this before very insightful, I don't deal with anxiety but I do deal with severe depression this inner peace is also what I wish I always had but I like how you put it in fact it probably sums it up completely.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#60
Through the science of proper conduct, we seek to make the earth a better world to live in, to help people live morally by stimulating emotion, and working off imagination, human urges, and instincts. We teach for Christianity ways to enrich and elevate human life, and then we fashion our conscience through our own environment that we use to determine the direction of our character.

It's totally impossible for people to immortalize themselves and attain the righteousness of God by participating in sacraments such as to pray, praise, and give thanks. It's not the hymns, chorales, chants, or the instrumental music. It's not the buildings for worship, the art, the architecture, the kneeling, dipping, dunking, chanting, counting, lighting, confessing our sins or moral and political behavior.

Many Christians try to earn God’s righteousness by being a good person, a good member of their church, a good father or mother, or a good child. Some try by being a good worker, a good student, a wonderful husband or wife, and a good neighbor. Some try by singing more hymns, by running to the altar, by confessing their sins, and by being a law-abiding citizen. Others try by water baptism, the Old Testament Law, the rosary, fasting, giving to their church, and giving to the poor. These are all nice and wonderful dynamic moral commitments that, at best, are only the commandments of people.

Jesus once told the religious leaders of his time they were teaching for the truth of God’s Word, “the commandments of men.” It appears we continue to do the same in our day and time. People can never win the right to stand before God’s righteousness through their own traditions and ordinances, which at best, are only the consequences of the commandments of people. The only begotten Son, who is in the Father’s love, comfort, and rest, has declared and unfolded the concealed things of God once and for all. The world so desperately needs the light of the gospel of Christ, who has shown us the Father’s heart, so we who hunger and thirst after righteousness can be filled.
OK :unsure:

While I'd need to guess at the meaning of some of the things you just said (for instance: "we fashion our conscience through our own environment that we use to determine the direction of our character"), what you said, in general, was in reference to individuals and what they choose to do, not the church. But my question to you concerned what you had to say in the OP about the church/official church teachings. As I said in my last post to you:
"You told us that our churches teach us certain "carnal rules and regulations" so that we can "redeem ourselves" and "obtain our own righteousness".​

You also said that the list of the things that they teach us in this regard is endless. Just to be as clear as possible, I'm looking for (at least) one or two things from the "endless list", things that our NON-Catholic churches teach our congregants as a way of "redeeming themselves" APART from Christ (as official doctrine). Please provide us with examples of those kind of ~official~ church teachings so that we can see what you are referring to.

Thank you!

~Deut
p.s. - just FYI, Jesus also had this to say concerning the Pharisees' teaching
(when they taught from the written Torah instead of what they referred to as their "oral Torah"/their Jewish "Traditions").

Matthew 23
2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."