We establish the Law...but how?

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Nov 26, 2011
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In charge? We don't let the Holy Spirit regenerate us.
We have nothing to do with our spiritual rebirth, just as we have nothing to do with our natural birth.

Until his sinful unregenerate nature is reborn of the Holy Spirit into eternal life,
unregenerate man is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless to do anything that pleases God.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

1. Repent
2. Conversions
3. Refreshing and Sins Forgiven

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1. Circumcision of the Heart/Buried with Him in Baptism/Crucifixion of the Flesh
2. Raised up through Faith in the power of God - Quickened/Sins Forgiven

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

1. Buried with Him in Baptism/Old Man Crucified/Body of Sin Destroyed/Service of Sin Ceases
2. Raised up to Walk in Newness of Life/Freedom From Sin

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

1. Submission to God/Resist Satan/Draw Night to God/Cleanse Our Hands/Purify Our Hearts/Be afflicted and Mourn/Humble Ourselves/Laughter Turned to Mourning/Joy to Heaviness
2. God Draws Night to Us/God Lifts Us Up

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1. Confess and Forsake Sin
2. Mercy Granted

Jer 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

1. Amend Ways/Obey God
2. God Grants Mercy


Should I go on?

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

1. Cease to do Evil and Learn to do Well
2. Mercy Granted

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

1. Lay Apart All Wickedness
2. Receive Implanted Word
3. Soul Saved.

Nineveh Repented
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jon 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Jon 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
Jon 3:6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
Jon 3:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
Jon 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Jon 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

1. Nineveh Warned of Judgement
2. Nineveh Turned From Evil and Repented, Nineveh Cried out for Mercy in Sackcloth and Ashes.
3. God Granted Mercy

Jer 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

1. Warning to Israel to Wash Their Hearts From Wickedness
2. Salvation Promised If They Will Do This

Repent Or Perish
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

1. Godly Sorrow
2. Repentance
3. Salvation
 
Nov 26, 2011
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You must hate the Bible Elin in order to believe the things you do which clearly contradict the very plain sentiment of scripture.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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John Calvin. . .was an intellectual and was clearly unwilling to bend his mind to the scripture and would thus force the scripture to bend to his mind. He did this because he
had committed himself to
many of the fundamentals of Augustine, primarily
Original Sin
Still denying the truth of Ro 5:18: "the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men."

And you still have not directly dealt with Lk 11:48-51; Ro 3:10, 4:5, 5:18, 8:7-8; Eph 2:3.







 
Dec 12, 2013
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I could snip a whole book of the bible to give it more context.
How does your added verses change the fact that a Christian is under grace and not the law?
I wouldn't waste your breath on those who have no understanding of unmerited favor and those who reject grace based upon the FAITH OF JESUS as applied unto those who truly believe...going to be a lot of people cooking who believed in the keeping of the law for salvation.....NOT ONE MAN except JESUS has kept the whole law...break one point and it leads to being guilty of the whole!
 
Nov 26, 2011
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Where did I say grace is a cloak for sinning?

Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Your doctrine necessitates it. You don't have to emphatically state it.

I have never heard a false teacher emphatically claim that "grace is a cloak for sinning." Who would say that? That would be like preaching "ye can sin and not surely die."

Effectual deception does not work like that. Effectual deception is subtle and insidious.

For example I asked you if there is any sin that has to stop before God will grant forgiveness. You answered with "the sin of unbelief."

What does that actually mean?

I am pretty sure based on all your previous posts that "belief" to you is...

1. Confessing you are a sinner.
2. Trusting in Jesus that he was punished in your place.
3. That God reckons you righteous by your faith.

Yet all that is within the context of sin still being in you because you were born a sinner. Which is why you don't specifically state that all known wickedness must cease BEFORE God grants forgiveness.

Your very first post in this thread denies that "faith establishing the law" means "righteousness is fulfilled in us through a faith that works by love, love which fulfills the law." Instead you quote some guy who reckons that the cross establishes the law vie the execution of a penalty and thus trusting in that is how the law is established in us. Thus you view the death on cross as a provisional substitution, instead of a means in which we participate which brings us to a state of inward heart purity. Without heart purity sin will still manifest.

If I am wrong correct me.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You must hate the Bible Elin in order to believe the things you do which clearly contradict the very plain sentiment of scripture.
SO..if she hates the truth does that mean you are being led by the devil in your accusation?

Lets see who is leading you...two options...

1. The ACCUSER of the brethren or
2. Neither do I accuse thee...go and sin no more....

So...who do you follow?....The Pharisees, who were hypocrites, vipers, blind leaders of the blind and white washed coffins accused Jesus as well.....So who do you follow?

They also rejected grace in favor of laws and the traditions of men!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Your doctrine necessitates it. You don't have to emphatically state it.

I have never heard a false teacher emphatically claim that "grace is a cloak for sinning." Who would say that? That would be like preaching "ye can sin and not surely die."

Effectual deception does not work like that. Effectual deception is subtle and insidious.

For example I asked you if there is any sin that has to stop before God will grant forgiveness. You answered with "the sin of unbelief."

What does that actually mean?

I am pretty sure based on all your previous posts that "belief" to you is...

1. Confessing you are a sinner.
2. Trusting in Jesus that he was punished in your place.
3. That God reckons you righteous by your faith.

Yet all that is within the context of sin still being in you because you were born a sinner. Which is why you don't specifically state that all known wickedness must cease BEFORE God grants forgiveness.

Your very first post in this thread denies that "faith establishing the law" means "righteousness is fulfilled in us through a faith that works by love, love which fulfills the law." Instead you quote some guy who reckons that the cross establishes the law vie the execution of a penalty and thus trusting in that is how the law is established in us. Thus you view the death on cross as a provisional substitution, instead of a means in which we participate which brings us to a state of inward heart purity. Without heart purity sin will still manifest.

If I am wrong correct me.
Another accusation without merit.......!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
In charge? We don't let the Holy Spirit regenerate us.
We have nothing to do with our spiritual rebirth, just as we have nothing to do with our natural birth.

Until his sinful unregenerate nature is reborn of the Holy Spirit into eternal life,
unregenerate man is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless
to do anything that pleases God.(Ro 8:7-8)
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Clear the table of the business that is on it;

i.e., deal directly with Lk 11:48-51; Ro 3:10, 4:5, 5:18, 8:7-8; Eph 2:3,

and then we'll address this business.
 
Last edited:
Jan 19, 2013
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I'm having serious concerns these people know what 'being born again' is.
I've never seen a group more ignorant of the basics of the NT.

An unorthodox sect, for sure.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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Elin said:
In charge? We don't let the Holy Spirit regenerate us.

We have nothing to do with our spiritual rebirth, just as we have nothing to do with our natural birth.

Until his sinful unregenerate nature is reborn of the Holy Spirit into eternal life,
unregenerate man is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless to do anything that pleases God
.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Clear the table of the business that is on it;

i.e., deal directly with Lk 11:48-51; Ro 3:10, 4:5, 5:18, 8:7-8; Eph 2:3,

and then we'll address this business.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
You must hate the Bible Elin in order to believe the things you do which clearly contradict the very plain sentiment of scripture.
Clear the table of the business that is on it;

i.e., deal directly with Lk 11:48-51; Ro 3:10, 4:5, 5:18, 8:7-8; Eph 2:3,

and then we'll address this business.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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Your doctrine necessitates it. You don't have to emphatically state it.

I have never heard a false teacher emphatically claim that "grace is a cloak for sinning." Who would say that? That would be like preaching "ye can sin and not surely die."

Effectual deception does not work like that. Effectual deception is subtle and insidious.

For example I asked you if there is any sin that has to stop before God will grant forgiveness. You answered with "the sin of unbelief."

What does that actually mean?

I am pretty sure based on all your previous posts that "belief" to you is...

1. Confessing you are a sinner.
2. Trusting in Jesus that he was punished in your place.
3. That God reckons you righteous by your faith.

Yet all that is within the context of sin still being in you because you were born a sinner. Which is why you don't specifically state that all known wickedness must cease BEFORE God grants forgiveness.

Your very first post in this thread denies that "faith establishing the law" means "righteousness is fulfilled in us through a faith that works by love, love which fulfills the law." Instead you quote some guy who reckons that the cross establishes the law vie the execution of a penalty and thus trusting in that is how the law is established in us. Thus you view the death on cross as a provisional substitution, instead of a means in which we participate which brings us to a state of inward heart purity. Without heart purity sin will still manifest.

If I am wrong correct me.
Wrong on every point. I have corrected you multiple times...to no avail. Why should I go again?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Clear the table of the business that is on it;

i.e., deal directly with Lk 11:48-51; Ro 3:10, 4:5, 5:18, 8:7-8; Eph 2:3,

and then we'll address this business.
What is sin according to the NT thanks ? What is righteousness ?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I've never seen a group more ignorant of the basics of the NT.

An unorthodox sect, for sure.
No doubt and until they understand biblical salvation they will not be able to understand anything from the scriptures...THE natural man cannot know, discern and or spiritually judge the word of God!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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What is sin according to the NT thanks ? What is righteousness ?
Sin would be disobedience to the law of Christ.

And there are two kinds of righteousness in the NT:

justification - declared "not guilty," by God, rightwise with him, by faith in Jesus Christ, which saves one
from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on their guilt at the final judgment, and

sanctification - by the obedience of saving faith through the power of the Holy Spirit which transforms
one more and more into the image of Christ.
 
B

BradC

Guest
Sin would be disobedience to the law of Christ.

And there are two kinds of righteousness in the NT:

justification - declared "not guilty," by God, rightwise with him, by faith in Jesus Christ, which saves one
from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on their guilt at the final judgment, and

sanctification - by the obedience of saving faith through the power of the Holy Spirit which transforms
one more and more into the image of Christ.
Justification = work of Christ = His +R imputed unto us through faith (Romans 4:11,22-24)

Sanctification = walking in the light of the word by faith = works of the believer = our +R imparted unto us in Christ (James 2:14-26)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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What is sin according to the NT thanks ? What is righteousness ?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The real question is what is the Law?