We establish the Law...but how?

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Mar 4, 2013
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How can you say the Spirit? The Spirit isn't mentioned at all in Rom 3. It is all about Christ's law keeping and our law breaking.
Faith definitely involves the Spirit. Faith definitely involves the law for the law is Spiritual. Hope that makes sense to you. (Romans 7:14)
1 Corinthians 12:7-11
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal .
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom ; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit ; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles ; to another prophecy ; to another discerning of spirits ; to another divers kinds of tongues ; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

I am addressing the entities necessary to answer your question about Romans 3:31 and how the law is established.

"But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding." (Job 32:8)

Paul relates spirit, faith and law together in proper perspective.
Galatians 3:2-5
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The ministering of the Spirit is by the hearing of faith and by this faith the law is established. We are to listen to God's word and understand His word as we increase in faith (even the law) by His Spirit.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Faith definitely involves the Spirit. Faith definitely involves the law for the law is Spiritual. Hope that makes sense to you. (Romans 7:14)
1 Corinthians 12:7-11
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal .
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom ; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit ; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles ; to another prophecy ; to another discerning of spirits ; to another divers kinds of tongues ; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

I am addressing the entities necessary to answer your question about Romans 3:31 and how the law is established.

"But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding." (Job 32:8)

Paul relates spirit, faith and law together in proper perspective.
Galatians 3:2-5
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The ministering of the Spirit is by the hearing of faith and by this faith the law is established. We are to listen to God's word and understand His word as we increase in faith (even the law) by His Spirit.
Simply not the topic of Rom 3. Like I said, some will insert self even into that which is intended to give the glory to God alone...a subtle form of pride?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Question. Did Paul discover the mystery of the gospel? What was that mystery? That God divorced the House of Israel and according to His own law cannot remarry her. . .

How does this relate to "We establish the Law...but how? I believe it does.

Further we understand God's plan...

Jer 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
He that scattered Israel will
gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
That promise was fulfilled in their return from exile in Bablylon, the rebuilding of the wall of Jerusalem and the Temple, and the restoration of worship.

AND Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
What is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers reveals that
Jer 31:31-34 is fulfilled in the new covenant (Lk 22:20) cut in the blood of Jesus Christ (Heb 8:7-13).

A covenant is a marriage agreement.
Nope. . .

the land covenant (Ge 15:9-21),
the Davidic covenant (2Sa 7:5-16),
the Noahic covenant (Ge 9:8-17),
the Phinehas covenant (Nu 25:10-31)
are not marriage agreements.


But God will not break His own law. So God's solution, which was
a mystery until Jesus taught it to Paul, "God with us... Emanuel"
The mystery of the Gospel is

the death of Christ (1Co 2:1),
our change at the resurrection (1Co 15:51),
God's purpose to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9),
to include both Jews and Gentiles in the NT church (Eph 3:3-6).
a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles will be included in God's kingdom (Ro 11:25),
the incarnation (1Ti 3:16).
 
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Mar 4, 2013
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Simply not the topic of Rom 3. Like I said, some will insert self even into that which is intended to give the glory to God alone...a subtle form of pride?
Is not Spirit of God the giver of our faith, and is not the Spirit of God the motivator of our faith in Him?
That's not off topic. It's the answer to your question of "we establish the law....but how?"

Romans 3:27-30
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded . By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith *without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

"without" 5565. choris kho-rece' adverb from 5561; at a space, i.e. separately or apart from (often as preposition):--beside, *by itself, without.
"deeds" 2041. ergon er'-gon from a primary (but obsolete) ergo (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:--deed, doing, labour, work.

As I had mentioned before, Paul is using "circumcision" as a focus of describing the law in chapter 3 in Romans. I had also mentioned that the law says that Circumcision is supposed to be of the heart to alleviate being stubborn or "stiffnecked."

It is important to note that Romans 3:28 is clear that the deeds of the law "*by itself" are not what makes a person justified. Faith comes first through the spirit and is the motivator to establish the law. The sequence of events come from God. I think I see your motivation of teaching an interpretation of scripture that you want to be true, but isn't.

"We" are included and exhorted to respond responsibly to these things according to Romans 3:31 as a summary of the entire chapter.
So I end trying to help you to understand "how" with this. We receive faith by the Spirit of God. We are to use that faith to establish the law given by God not by separate deeds of the law minus faith, but by the motivating Spirit of God. If the law cannot be established, then the motivation isn't there. What do you think that says?

In order of accomplishment. All capability comes from above.
1. Spirit
2. Faith
3. Establishment is successful

In that order. Is there something that you don't understand about Paul including himself with ourselves in the said verse when he says "we"? He is exhorting us to insert "self". ourselves.
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law."

WHEE!!
 
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C

cfultz3

Guest
Anyone? What about God's Law? Is that not what faith establishes? Should we not talk about that instead of the Law of sin and death which we are dead to? If we live by God's Law and the Law of the Spirit fulfills it, then should we not talk about God's HOLY path He is leading us on?

Faith establishes law, that is how law is establish, through faith. Faith does not void out law.

If one says that faith establishes (continues, upholds) THE LAW, and Scripture tells us that we are DEAD (no longer existing) to THE LAW, then perhaps, there is a small flaw in our conclusion? We cannot continue in THE LAW if we are dead to it. But, we are certainly not dead to God's Law which Paul delights in.

Something worth pondering.........
 
Oct 31, 2011
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John 15:5

Those who abide in their own understanding are the ones who work by their own understanding and attempt to cause others to do the same. We have to do this and we have to do that. We must obey. We must have faith. We must walk how He walked. Well that would be fine and dandy if any one of us had the power to do it. Then we could teach each other to just pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get in there and start fulfilling the Law.

My Grace is sufficient for thee. For my Strength is made perfect in weakness.

You can spend your whole life working so hard. Trying to be, or trying to perform. But if you know you aren't and you know you can't, then the Power of Asking the One who Can is brilliant and beautiful.

God is blessing you. Has blessed you. Continues to bless you.
Grandpa has put the controversy in a few simple words. Do we study and discipline ourselves to walk with the Lord or do we sort of let it all hang out and let God do it for us?

I hope all who read this understand I am exaggerating each side in order to get the point across. At one extreme is doing nothing and at the other extreme is being egotistical and saying how you can do without the Lord.

My understanding is that we are given free choice by the Lord, and when we know of the Glory, Power, and all the Lord is, we put our will by our choice into following the Lord. Because we know sin, we have fleshly desires, I think it does take personal discipline, prayer, and study of the word and without that we fall into sin. I don't think this effort on our part detracts in the least from the power of the Lord in our life but I think our own discipline enhances it. We cannot follow the Lord and say that following is something we do out of our own power and intellect.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Anyone? What about God's Law? Is that not what faith establishes? Should we not talk about that instead of the Law of sin and death which we are dead to? If we live by God's Law and the Law of the Spirit fulfills it, then should we not talk about God's HOLY path He is leading us on?

Faith establishes law
, that is how law is establish, through faith. Faith does not void out law.
Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus saves one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,

thus establishing the law on a right basis, subordinate to the law of grace which saves by faith only,

not by law-keeping.

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6) is then the result

of that saving faith.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus saves one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt, (absolutely)

thus establishing the law on a right basis, subordinate to the law of grace which saves by faith only, (the conversation is Rom 3:31 and where it says faith does not void law, it establishes it. But, I do agree that THE Law is subordinate to the Law of the Spirit. Yet, we are still under God's Law. We Christians are not lawless.)

not by law-keeping. (aboslutely)

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6) (what I have been talking about all the while, God's Law, that Law commanded of us by Christ)

is then the result of that saving faith. (Obedience comes from the person desiring to look upon God, even the Son in one of His Psalms said I about 10 times. If obedience is the result of faith, then all deeds done by a Christian are righteous and thus, would have no need to be shifted through the Fire. We, and we alone, are held accountable for our deeds.)
Here is what I have been talking about all the while, obedience to the New Covenant Law of Christ, which is Love, God's Law all along.


http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how.html#post1696922
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-2.html#post1697836
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-2.html#post1697871
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-2.html#post1697914
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-2.html#post1697925
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-3.html#post1698002
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-3.html#post1698542
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-3.html#post1698627
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-4.html#post1698708
 
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J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
These are wonderful scriptures, and if they comprised the entire word and if your personal definition of all it says was absolutely correct from you 2014 knowledge of how our world was then, I think it would be possible to conclude that scripture speaks against scripture. In the world some of these scriptures were spoken to, it wasn't only the feasts scripture pointed to but feasts and times pagan gods spoke to that was honored. In the world these scriptures were first spoken to, most thought of orthodox Jews as "those strange people". The Jew's God was admired by those who learned His principles, but such as cutting new born babies was just looked on as just a strange thing to promote.

To most of the people these words were addressed to, your idea of getting rid of the attributes and principles of the one true God was unthinkable. No one, not a person, would have agreed with posters saying Moses wasn't to be listened to. Or that the principles of the Lord was only a burden.

You are reading inspired words of the Lord and still not hearing what those words are saying. We are told in many, many scriptures the place the holy law has in our life besides your viewpoint that they should be dumped. Without all of the word, only cherry picking the word, the word is distorted.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

There's been much ado about that by faith we establish the law as if this is something believers set out to do once they have come to faith in Christ. Not so fast. William Newell may be of help here.

How then, was the Law established? You know very well. All Israel were commanded by Jehovah to stone the man to death. We read: “And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. And Jehovah said unto Moses The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with stones; as Jehovah commanded Moses” (Numbers 15:33,ff).

Thus and thus only was the commandment of Jehovah established—by the execution of the penalty. Paul preached Christ crucified: that Christ died for our sins, that “He tasted death for every man.” And that Israel, who were under the Law, He redeemed from the curse of that Law by being made a curse for them. Thus the cross established law; for the full penalty of all that was against the Divine majesty, against God’s holiness. His righteousness, His truth, was forever met, and that not according to man’s conception of what sin and its penalty should be, but according to God’s judgment, according to the measure of the sanctuary, of high heaven itself!

The Jew, prating about his own righteousness, went about to kill Paul, crying that he spake against the Law; whereas it was that very Jew who would lower the Law to his own ability to keep it, instead of allowing it its proper office; namely, to reveal his guilt, curse him, and condemn him to death, and thus drive him to the mercy of God in Christ, whose expiatory death established law by having its penalty executed!

William Newell on Romans 3:31

Paul is not going to contradict Jesus in anything he teaches therefore William Newell is obviously twisting the writings of Paul and following the Spirit of Error.

Peter in warning of the judgment of God and that the material world will be burned up wrote the following...

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

In that passage Peter compelled people to "be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless" and the context of that statement had to do with, "what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness."

So what is Paul teaching when he writes...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The answer is very simple. Paul is teaching that it is by faith that righteousness is established in the heart and the law is but a shadow of genuine faith. In the verse right before 3:31 Paul writes this...

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

God does not justify people via the deeds of the law and circumcision is the example Paul is using here. In chapter 2 Paul wrote this...

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

How can the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law? Simple. By faith. Why is that? Well faith works by love...

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works by love and love works no ill.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Thus...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

You see apart from faith outward deeds profit nothing. Without faith an outward deed is a dead work. The issue is the heart. The heart was the issue with the Pharisees...

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Jesus told the Pharisees that they "make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess." That the Pharisees were like "whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

That is why Jesus told them to "cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also."

That is what they had to do and that cleansing is via faith, a faith that works by love, a faith that fulfills the law because love works no ill.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

So what Paul is teaching is in perfect agreement with what Jesus was teaching in the Sermon on the Mount...

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
...
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
...
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus stated that our righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees. The righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees was an outward appearance of righteousness only but their hearts remained wicked. This is why Jesus would speak of "murder in the heart" and "adultery in the heart" as breaking the law.

Jesus was teaching about heart purity and compelled people to be pure.

Paul wrote...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us if we walk after the Spirit because when we walk after the Spirit we are abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. That is where we may find life.

There are a multitude of false teachers today who deny all this and replace it with "Jesus obeying for you" because they teach "you cannot obey." Thus they preach a substitution message where the righteousness of Jesus must be credited to your account because they deny the dynamic where the righteousness of God is made manifest in our hearts through a faith that works by love.

Saved by grace THROUGH faith simply means we abide wholeheartedly in the grace of God and are inwardly transformed and made pure. Faith is the working dynamic by which we yield to God and faith comes when we meditate on the words of God and that is why faith is a gift from God. We receive grace for obedience of the faith because it is the working dynamic of "working with God" (where God leads and we follow) that we are brought to newness of life.

Don't be fooled by those who would twist Paul and preach the error of the wicked. Paul does not contradict Jesus and the way to life is to DO what Jesus said to do. That is to repent and forsake sin, yield to God and follow Jesus. Do that and God will energise you with His power and the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in your too through the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ whereby we are set free from the law of sin and death.

God bless.
 
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psychomom

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solipsistic bondage. :rolleyes:
 
Nov 26, 2011
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solipsistic bondage. :rolleyes:
Big words don't trump Bible truth.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
 
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[video=youtube;-GBJ9jeo2aQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GBJ9jeo2aQ[/video]
 
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psychomom

Guest
i can honestly say i've never seen you post Bible Truth...

and that makes me sad.

not one mention, in anything you say about the sacrifice of Christ,
about the glory of God, about what God in Christ has done for sinners.

you don't understand that God came down to us...
because there's no way sinners can climb a ladder to God.

i'll try using smaller words, if that helps. :)
 
Nov 26, 2011
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i can honestly say i've never seen you post Bible Truth...

and that makes me sad.

not one mention, in anything you say about the sacrifice of Christ,
about the glory of God, about what God in Christ has done for sinners.

you don't understand that God came down to us...
because there's no way sinners can climb a ladder to God.

i'll try using smaller words, if that helps. :)
You are blind. Completely blind.

The Bible means what it says.

Jesus Christ died on our behalf that we die with Him and we may then be raised up with Him to newness of life where we abide in the Spirit of His life.

You view Jesus Christ as a substitute who obeyed for you and paid your sin debt. Two teachings which are not in the Bible. Thus of course I don't uphold that lie. You have never seen me post Bible truth as YOU PERCEIVE Bible truth. My message is the opposite of yours. I contend against sin and for righteousness whilst you content for ongoing iniquity and a cloak. Your entire theology is a denial of the teachings of Jesus and therefore an actual denial of Jesus Himself. I hope you somehow wake up to that because Jesus is going to reject MANY people who profess "Lord, Lord" who were "workers of iniquity." Work is what you DO. The Saints of God work righteousness because they have been cleansed inwardly and thus walk by a faith that works by love via the Spirit.

Jesus condemned sin in the flesh and offered Himself a perfect sacrifice up to God and in doing so became our high priest and advocate to God. We are to approach God via His blood with a true heart in repentance and faith seeking to be cleansed. God cleanses us and enjoins us into Covenant. We then, with pure hearts, grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ as we add to our faith perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Obedience unto righteousness, righteousness unto holiness, holiness the end of which is eternal life. The gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ.

Jesus literally saves us from not only condemnation but from sin itself. We stop sinning. We stop sinning unto death. Sure we may make mistakes due to a lack of understanding but we don't produce iniquity from a defiled heart. God disciplines us our sins of ignorance and we grow from that chastisement.

All that is what the Bible teaches.

Your doctrine is Reformed Theology which teaches that you were born wicked and always will be wicked, at least while you are in a flesh body. Thus you are forced to view Jesus as a substitute who cloaks your wickedness with His righteousness and then God pretends you have the righteousness of Jesus while you are actually still wicked. That is a nonsense gospel. That is make believe. That is stupid.

God is not weak and therefore does not save people and leave them enslaved. Jesus came to save us from sin as it says in Matthew 1:21 and He does so, FOR REAL.

Satan wants to keep people in bondage by deceiving them into believing that such a salvation is impossible even though the Bible plainly teaches it. Jesus DID teach about heart purity and Jesus DID teach that it is the required standard of God. So did Paul, Peter and John. They all taught the same message.

No-one in the Bible taught that Jesus obeyed so we don't have to. No-one in the Bible taught that Jesus obeyed because we couldn't. No, they all teach that Jesus obeyed on our behalf as our example so that we would follow Him. They taught that He died on our behalf so that our previous rebellion could be forgiven by approaching the God via his sacrifice whereby His blood is sprinkled on us and we are washed clean.

"Sin you will and sin you must" and an imaginary cloak for wickedness is Satan's gospel.
 
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Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus saves one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,

thus establishing the law on a right basis, subordinate to the law of grace which saves by faith only,

not by law-keeping.

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6) is then the result

of that saving faith.

Great post Elin, of the New Torah in Christ Jesus!
which He erased and consumed in Himself upon the Cross;
every jot and tittle of the Old Torah of Moses
and the Prophets, was fulfilled and did pass away!
The old heavens and earth in the 1st Adam has passed away;
Behold all things have become new in Christ Jesus,
Who is our New Creation, and New Adam!
 
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psychomom

Guest
Scott, i am sure there are areas in which i am blind.

but i know to Whom to go for healing.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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Scott, i am sure there are areas in which i am blind.

but i know to Whom to go for healing.
Truth and error do not mix and while you might think you go to Jesus for healing it is most certainly another Jesus. I have seen the posts you "like" and I have seen the truths you deny.

Jesus did not die on the cross as your substitute. You are trusting in a fiction and the fiction has you completely in its grasp. That is why you cannot refute what I write with the Bible.

Everything I say I can back up with the scripture and I don't do it simply by proof texting single verses out of their context either. I do it here a little and there a little and show the context. The message of the Bible is very simple as it pertains to salvation, sin, righteousness and judgment.

Paul wrote this...

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Actually read that for one time in your life and tell me if this substitutional sacrifice, you sin in throught word amd deed everyday, your heart is deceitfully wicked, if you say you have no sin you are a liar, you are the Romans wretch and chief of sinners message agrees with it?

Do Romans wretches who sin every day who are still internally wicked obey the truth and patiently continue in well doing seek glory honour and immortality?

Of course not. It is a contradiction. The false teaches rip all that stuff out of context to support their "I am wicked but trust in Jesus" lie.

Yet perhaps you don't want to go there and take comfort in the lie because it is popular?

My message sure is not popular, people hate you for it. I mean who wants to truly forsake their sin like it says in Proverbs?

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

It is much easier to preach inability and claim "I can't do that and no-one can and I just trust in Jesus who was perfect in my place." That kind of message is delicious because it means one can sin and not surely die so long as they "trust in the finished work of the cross."

It is not going to work at the judgement because the Bible does not teach that.
 
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