We establish the Law...but how?

[Elin]

Rom 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law

The Greek reads: "That the righteous demands of the law"

might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It is not through the power of Christ and the Holy Spirit within us, that righteousness is fulfilled when we follow what the Spirit leads us to do.

Well, I can tell you right now, I don't do it through my own power.

So whose power am I doing it through?

 

[Elin]

Then you are standing firm in your belief that faith only is required, and then we can stand back and watch ourselves to see the results of that faith with trust in ourselves. So law keeping by using our minds, discipline, or will must be set aside?

If this miraculously leads to a Christian walk, then people have only to handle what they think of the Lord and whatever acts they do are not our responsibility but the responsibility of Christ?

Read it again.

 

[JesusIsAll]

So whose power am I doing it through?

Exodus, Leviticus and a couple bottles of 5-Hour Energy?

 

[RedTent]

Read it again.

. You would never use Truman's phrase "the buck stops here." You have great skills at being evasive.

 

[cfultz3]

The Greek reads: "That the righteous demands of the law"

It can be said like that also and would not change the verses.

Well, I can tell you right now, I don't do it through my own power. So whose power am I doing it through?

If you do not follow Jesus by your own consent, willfully, then your walk is not your own. It is Christ who wills you, but we need to consent, seeing that God will not force one's alliance.

A person is responsible for his own walk.

Psa 15:1 A Psalm of David. LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
Psa 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
Psa 15:3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
Psa 15:4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
Psa 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.​

The Son speaking to Jehovah

Psa 26:1 A Psalm of David. Judge me, O LORD; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have trusted also in the LORD; therefore I shall not slide.
Psa 26:2 Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart.
Psa 26:3 For thy lovingkindness is before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.
Psa 26:4 I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers.
Psa 26:5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.
Psa 26:6 I will wash mine hands in innocency: so will I compass thine altar, O LORD:
Psa 26:7 That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works.
Psa 26:8 LORD, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.
Psa 26:9 Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men:
Psa 26:10 In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes.
Psa 26:11 But as for me, I will walk in mine integrity: redeem me, and be merciful unto me.
Psa 26:12 My foot standeth in an even place: in the congregations will I bless the LORD.​

Each will give an account of his own deeds:

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.​

In conclusion: do not use this faith to abolish law. Use this faith to establish God's law.

 

[cfultz3]

Exodus, Leviticus and a couple bottles of 5-Hour Energy?

Why mock God's Law?

 

[JesusIsAll]

Why mock God's Law?

Why comment on something you failed to understand? (Not that this gets in anybody's way around here.)

 

[cfultz3]

Why comment on something you failed to understand?

I surely read what lead up to your comment.

The question is, why do you mock God's Law?

 

[JesusIsAll]

I surely read what lead up to your comment.

The question is, why do you mock God's Law?

Why comment you something you failed to understand, twice?

 

[cfultz3]

Why comment you something you failed to understand, twice?

Elin: So whose power am I doing it through?

you: Exodus, Leviticus and a couple bottles of 5-Hour Energy?

me: why do you mock God's Law?

What do we do with God's Law? Is that Law also legalism? Something to be avoided by all means?

 

[JesusIsAll]

Well, here we go again,

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[cfultz3]

Well, here we go again,

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how-2.html#post1697914

 

[Elin]

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6) is then the result of that saving faith.

Then you are standing firm in your belief that faith only is required, and then we can stand back and watch ourselves to see the results of that faith with trust in ourselves. So law keeping by using our minds, discipline, or will must be set aside?

If this miraculously leads to a Christian walk, then people have only to handle what they think of the Lord and
whatever acts they do are not our responsibility but the responsibility of Christ?

Read it again.

You would never use Truman's phrase "the buck stops here." You have great skills at being evasive.

I give you the word of God:

"it is God who works in you both to will and to do." (Php 2:13)

 

[crossnote]

You are then denying that you have been given faith. You are actully saying that the Spirit of God has not given you any gifts.

Those are your words. I never denied I have been given faith. My faith is in Christ who has upheld/established the law. My faith does not establish the law.
Now maybe you don't agree with that, but please don't twist what I am saying in an effort to prove yourself right.

 

[just-me]

Well, here we go again,

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Just for conversations sake to put your scripture together with these.

11 Ye shall not steal , neither deal falsely , neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged .
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear , O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

 

[Elin]

It can be said like that also and would not change the verses.

If you do not follow Jesus by your own consent, willfully, then your walk is not your own.
It is Christ who wills you, but we need to consent, seeing that God will not force one's alliance.

A person is responsible for his own walk.

These are the spiritual facts:

All those who are born again have saving faith.

Saving faith is obedient.

None who are born again into saving faith will be condemned at the Final Judgment.

You do the math.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Those are your words. I never denied I have been given faith. My faith is in Christ who has upheld/established the law. My faith does not establish the law.
Now maybe you don't agree with that, but please don't twist what I am saying in an effort to prove yourself right.

This is something I've also often noticed, how some are constantly putting words in peoples' mouths never said, criticizing and making accusations involving points nobody even made. It's as if they have some canned argument lined up, though it doesn't reflect your thoughts, much less anything you ever said or even implied, they seem to have to lay on you, anyway. So tiresome. I especially like it when you post voluminous verses of truth, and they rip into you for not providing the right verses to support their blathering.

 

[crossnote]

It's hopeless when certain ones pick and choose verses throughout the bible, all the WHILE ignoring the verses in immediate context. Bad 'her-men-new-ticks'.

 

[JesusIsAll]

It's hopeless when certain ones pick and choose verses throughout the bible, all the WHILE ignoring the verses in immediate context. Bad 'her-men-new-ticks'.

Yes, the Ebola of interpretation...

 

[Elin]

We establish the law...but how?

How?

The atoning sacrifice of Jesus saves one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,

thus establishing the law on a right basis, subordinate to the law of grace which saves by faith only,

not by law-keeping.

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6) is then the result

of that saving faith.