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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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At the risk of reading heresy, perhaps you would enlighten me (us)?
You ignore the fact that they have the book of the Mormon and a couple other books they hold above the Bible. In them Jesus was just a man that slowly ascended to godhood. This is what Mormons believe every true believer will attain. Thus they are absolutely not Christian. They are wolves in sheep's clothing deceiving many.
 
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“As it regards the Cross of Christ versus the Resurrection, the great Apostle said:

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the Cross of Christ should be made of none effect” (I Cor. 1:17). If it is to be noticed, he did not say, “lest the Resurrection of Christ should be made of none effect.”

He also said, “For the preaching (Word) of the Cross is to them who perish foolishness; but unto us which are Saved it is the Power of God” (I Cor. 1:18).” “He did not say, “For the preaching of the Resurrection is to them. . . .”

The great Apostle also said, “But we preach Christ Crucified” (I Cor. 1:23). He did not say, as it regards the Atonement, “We preach Christ Resurrected. . . .”

Of course, Paul preached the Resurrection of Christ, even as Chapter 15 of I Corinthians bears out, but not as the Atonement.

He also stated to the Church at Corinth and to all others as well, “For I determined not to know any thing among you save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified” (I Cor. 2:2). He did not say, “For I determined not to know any thing among you save Jesus Christ, and Him Resurrected. . . .”

“He also stated, “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .” (Gal. 6:14). He did not say, “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . .”

As we have stated, while the Resurrection, and the Ascension, and the Exaltation of Christ were of extreme significance, these three tremendous attributes were the result of the Atonement, i.e., “the Cross,” instead of the cause.

Excerpt From
Brother Swaggart, Here Is My Question About The Cross
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/br...my-question-about-the-cross/id917790228?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
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“Let’s look for a moment at the three great attributes of Resurrection, Ascension, and Exaltation.

THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

The Resurrection of Christ was not merely an incident. Several things are attributed to His Resurrection.
• Death was defeated: While we do not yet have all the effects of this great Victory over death, that awaiting the coming Rapture of the Church, still, due to the Cross, and the Resurrection of Christ, death has been defeated. When the Trump sounds, we will then be given the full reward of the great Victory won at Calvary’s Cross. Paul said:”

“So when this corruptible (sin nature) shall have put on incorruption (the Divine Nature in total control by the Holy Spirit), and this mortal (subject to death) shall have put on immortality (will never die), then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory ([Isa. 25:8], the full benefits of the Cross will then be ours, of which we now have only the Firstfruits [Rom. 8:23])” (I Cor. 15:54).

“• The Resurrection of Christ guarantees the coming Resurrection of the Sainted Dead with them given a Glorified Body that will never see death, and with all those in Christ who are alive treated in like manner. So, His Resurrection, while guaranteeing our Resurrection, also guarantees a Glorified Body, actually, like unto Him. John wrote:

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God (we are just as much a ‘son of God’ now as we will be after the Resurrection), and it does not yet appear what we shall be (our present state as a ‘son of God’ is not at all like that we shall be in the coming Resurrection): but we know that, when He shall appear (the Rapture), we shall be like Him (speaks of being glorified); for we shall see Him as He is. (Physical eyes in a mortal body could not look upon that Glory, only eyes in Glorified Bodies)” (I Jn. 3:2).”

“• His Resurrection guaranteed our Justification. Paul said concerning this:

“Who was delivered for our offences (had to do with Jesus dying on the Cross for our sins; He had no sins), and was raised again for our Justification (we were raised with Him in newness of life [Rom. 6:4-5])” (Rom. 4:25).”

“Commenting on the words, “was raised for our Justification,” Denney says, “He was delivered up on account of our offences — to make atonement for them; and He was raised on account of our Justification — that it might become an accomplished fact. Paul does ascribe expiatory value to the death or blood of Christ: in a sense it is true the Work of Christ was finished on the Cross. But Paul never thought of that by itself: he knew Christ only as the Risen One Who had died, and Who had the virtue of His atoning death ever in Him; this Christ was One, and all that He did and suffered — The Christ Who had evoked in Him the faith by which he was justified, the only Christ through faith in Whom sinful men ever could be justified; and it is natural, therefore, that he should conceive Him as raised with a view to our justification.”

“• “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

“Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a ‘Newness of Life’).”

“THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH

“For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His Death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection (we can have the ‘likeness of His Resurrection,’ i.e., ‘live this Resurrection Life,’ only as long as we understand the ‘likeness of His Death,’ which refers to the Cross as the means by which all of this is done)” (Rom. 6:3-5).”

Excerpt From
Brother Swaggart, Here Is My Question About The Cross
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/br...my-question-about-the-cross/id917790228?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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“THE ASCENSION OF CHRIST

• “Of Righteousness, because I go to My Father (As far as we know, the First thing that Jesus did after His Ascension, was to present a spotless Righteousness to the Father, namely Himself, which pertained to His Sacrifice at Calvary, that was accepted by God; consequently, that Righteousness is imputed to all who will believe in Him and His Work on the Cross), and you see me no more (meaning that His Work was Finished)” (Jn. 16:10).

• The Ascension of Christ also opened the door for the Holy Spirit to be sent in a new dimension. He said:

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away (the Mission and Ministry of the Holy Spirit to the Body of Christ depended upon the return of Christ to the Father): for if I go not away, the Comforter (Holy Spirit) will not come unto you (concerns the respective Office Work of Both Jesus and the Holy Spirit — Jesus as the Saviour of men, and the Holy Spirit as the Power of the Church); but if I depart, I will send Him unto you (a Finished Work on the Cross was demanded of Christ, before the Holy Spirit could be sent)” (Jn. 16:7).”

Excerpt From
Brother Swaggart, Here Is My Question About The Cross
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/br...my-question-about-the-cross/id917790228?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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It's too bad that MoTC hasn't studied the Word of God enough on his own that he still needs to lean on the opinions of bruddah Jimmy.
 
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“THE EXALTATION OF CHRIST

• Concerning the Exaltation Paul wrote:

“Has in these last days (the dispensation of Grace, which is the Church Age) spoken unto us by His Son (speaks of the Incarnation), Whom He has appointed Heir of all things (through the means of the Cross), by Whom also He made the worlds (proclaims His Deity, as the previous phrase of Him being the ‘Heir of all things’ proclaims His Humanity);”

“AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE MAJESTY ON HIGH

“Who being the brightness of His Glory (the radiance of God’s Glory), and the express Image of His Person (the exact reproduction), and upholding all things by the Word of His Power (carries the meaning of Jesus not only sustaining the weight of the universe, but also maintaining its coherence and carrying on its development), when He had by Himself purged our sins (which He did at the Cross, dealing with sin regarding its cause, its power, and its guilt), sat down on the Right Hand of the Majesty on high (speaks of the Finished Work of Christ, and that the Sacrifice was accepted by the Father)” (Heb. 1:2-3).”

“GOD HAS HIGHLY EXALTED HIM

• “And being found in fashion as a man (denotes Christ in men’s eyes), He humbled Himself (He was brought low, but willingly), and became obedient unto death (does not mean He became obedient to death; He was always the Master of Death; rather, He subjected Himself to death), even the death of the Cross. (This presents the character of His Death as one of disgrace and degradation, which was necessary for men to be redeemed. This type of death alone would pay the terrible sin debt, and do so in totality.)
“Wherefore God also has highly exalted Him (to a place of supreme Majesty; Jesus has always been Creator, but now He is Saviour as well), and given Him a Name which is above every name (actually says, ‘The Name,’ referring to a specific Name and Title; that Name, as Verse 11 proclaims, is ‘Lord’):”


“JESUS CHRIST IS LORD

“That at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow (in the sphere of the Name, which refers to all it entails; all of this is a result of the Cross, the price paid there, and the Redemption consequently afforded), of things in Heaven, and things in Earth, and things under the Earth (all Creation will render homage, whether animate or inanimate);
“And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (proclaims ‘Lord’ as the ‘Name’ of Verse 9; it means ‘Master’ of all, which again has been made possible by the Cross), to the Glory of God the Father. (The acknowledgment of the Glory of Christ is the acknowledgment of the Glory of the Father.)” (Phil. 2:8-11).”


“THE INTERCESSORY WORK OF CHRIST

The Exaltation of Christ also includes His Intercessory Work, all on our behalf. Paul again wrote:

“Wherefore He (the Lord Jesus Christ) is able also to save them to the uttermost (proclaims the fact that Christ Alone has made the only true Atonement for sin; He did this at the Cross) who come unto God by Him (proclaims the only manner in which man can come to God), seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them. (His very Presence by the Right Hand of the Father guarantees such, with nothing else having to be done.)” (Heb. 7:25).”

“THE THRONE OF GRACE

In regard to His Intercessory Work, Paul also said:

“For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities (being Very Man as well as Very God, He can do such); but was at all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (His temptation, and ours as well, was to leave the prescribed Will of God, which is the Word of God; but He never did, not even one time.)

“Let us therefore come boldly unto the Throne of Grace (presents the Seat of Divine Power, and yet the Source of boundless Grace), that we may obtain Mercy (presents that which we want first), and find Grace to help in time of need (refers to the Goodness of God extended to all who come, and during any ‘time of need’; all made possible by the Cross)” (Heb. 4:15-16).”

“As should be obvious, while the Resurrection, the Ascension, and the Exaltation of Christ were, as previously stated, of utmost significance, still, these tremendous attributes were the result of what Jesus did at the Cross. This means that it was and is the Cross, which made and makes it all possible.

As I close the answer to the question, “Is the Atonement found solely in the Cross or the Resurrection?”, the following word given by Oswald Chambers would be appropriate. He titled it, the heading that I will once again use:”

“IT IS FINISHED

“I have finished the Work which You gave Me to do” (Jn. 17:4).
“The Death of Jesus Christ is the performance in history of the very Mind of God. There is no room for looking on Jesus Christ as a martyr; His death was not something that happened to Him which might have been prevented; His death was the very reason why He came.


“Never build your preaching of forgiveness on the fact that God is our Father and He will forgive us merely because He loves us. It is untrue to Jesus Christ’s revelation of God; it makes the Cross unnecessary, and the Redemption ‘much ado about nothing.’ If God does forgive sin, it is because of the Death of Christ. God could forgive men in no other way than by the Death of His Son, and Jesus is exalted to be Savior because of His Death. ‘We see Jesus because of the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor.’ The greatest note of triumph that ever sounded in the ears of a startled universe was that sounded on the Cross of Christ — ‘it is finished.’ That is the last word in the Redemption of man.

“THE CROSS OF CHRIST
“Anything that belittles or obliterates the holiness of God by a false view of the love of God, is untrue to the Revelation of God given by Jesus Christ. Never allow the thought that Jesus Christ stands with us against God out of pity and compassion; that He became a curse for us out of sympathy with us. Jesus Christ became a curse for us by the Divine Decree. Our portion of realizing the terrific meaning of the curse is conviction of sin, the gift of shame and penitence is given us — this is the great Mercy of God. Jesus Christ hates the wrong in man, and Calvary is the estimate of His hatred.”1”


Excerpt From
Brother Swaggart, Here Is My Question About The Cross
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/br...my-question-about-the-cross/id917790228?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Standing together at the Great White Throne judgment of God overlooking the shores of the Lake of Fire, MoTC will turn to bruddah Jimmy and ask, "Why did you lie to me?"

Bruddah Jimmy will reply, "Why didn't you study your Bible on your own instead of just taking my word for it?"
 
Sep 9, 2018
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That is your flesh talking that hates the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won.
Victory? What victory? You could lose it tomorrow? Seeing as how it is up to you really to save yourself. Jesus did His part, but now you believe you have to do yours. Or should I say that is what Swaggart believes. You are just his parrot.
 
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Those who walk in the spirit will always have shortcomings (acts of sin) until the trump sounds. We must rejoice in whatever Glory we are in. God is the potter and we are the clay. He moves us from glory to glory and faith to faith. No man or woman can change their life without the Holy Spirit. Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil (Jeremiah 13:23). The scripture says before He formed me in my mothers womb He approved me.

This is why we must understand what justification is and why it is the first subject in the book of Romans. It lays down the foundation as I go through sanctification.

Justification gives me the ability to get back up from every failure no matter how many times and stand up and go through this process and learn it. Justification gives us a legal standing with God that is not cancelled because of the acts of sin. So if I fail (and we will) at this same thing a thousand times - God forbid! We are a work in progress. Remember Jesus said I did not come to condemn (John 3:17).

Justification is not what we do, and not what I am, and not what I worked for. It is what Jesus did and my faith in it that gives me the standing with God that I need to carry on my Christian experience. Sometime I do it well, and sometimes I do it not so well, but his justifying Grace will not fail unless my faith fails. It is just if I have never sinned and just if I have always obeyed.

Pastor Loren Larson - JSM
The part "unless my faith fails"IMO,would be talking about the sanctification process and not salvation.
 

Maynard

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2013
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"We preach Christ crucified."

"Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world."
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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That is your flesh talking that hates the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won.
Without quoting Swaggart or his buddies, how about you try forming a rational response instead of throwing manure at those who disagree with the material you post.
 
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The part "unless my faith fails"IMO,would be talking about the sanctification process and not salvation.
What did Jesus say about the Cross?

DISCIPLESHIP

25 And there went great multitudes with Him (proclaims Him having left the home of this Pharisee, and now continuing His journey toward Jerusalem): and He turned, and said unto them (He was anxious now, at the end, clearly to make it known to all these multitudes what serving Him really signified),

26 If any man come to Me (no exceptions), and hate (prefer) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also (no affection, however strong, must be permitted to compete with or displace Christ), he cannot be My Disciple (once again, no exceptions!).”

“27 And whosoever does not bear his Cross (this doesn’t speak of suffering as most think, but rather ever making the Cross of Christ the Object of our Faith; we are Saved and we are victorious not by suffering, although that sometimes will happen, or any other similar things, but rather by our Faith, but always with the Cross of Christ as the Object of that Faith), and come after Me (one can follow Christ only by Faith in what He has done for us at the Cross; He recognizes nothing else), cannot be My Disciple (the statement is emphatic!; if it’s not Faith in the Cross of Christ, then it’s faith that God will not recognize, which means that such people are refused [I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Rom. 6:3-14; 8:1-2, 11, 13; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15]).” (Luke 14:25-27)

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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Standing together at the Great White Throne judgment of God overlooking the shores of the Lake of Fire, MoTC will turn to bruddah Jimmy and ask, "Why did you lie to me?"

Bruddah Jimmy will reply, "Why didn't you study your Bible on your own instead of just taking my word for it?"
Self-righteousness will always make my sin not so bad; your sin awful. Mines is understandable, and yours is always terrible.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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What did Jesus say about the Cross?

DISCIPLESHIP

25 And there went great multitudes with Him (proclaims Him having left the home of this Pharisee, and now continuing His journey toward Jerusalem): and He turned, and said unto them (He was anxious now, at the end, clearly to make it known to all these multitudes what serving Him really signified),

26 If any man come to Me (no exceptions), and hate (prefer) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also (no affection, however strong, must be permitted to compete with or displace Christ), he cannot be My Disciple (once again, no exceptions!).”

“27 And whosoever does not bear his Cross (this doesn’t speak of suffering as most think, but rather ever making the Cross of Christ the Object of our Faith; we are Saved and we are victorious not by suffering, although that sometimes will happen, or any other similar things, but rather by our Faith, but always with the Cross of Christ as the Object of that Faith), and come after Me (one can follow Christ only by Faith in what He has done for us at the Cross; He recognizes nothing else), cannot be My Disciple (the statement is emphatic!; if it’s not Faith in the Cross of Christ, then it’s faith that God will not recognize, which means that such people are refused [I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Rom. 6:3-14; 8:1-2, 11, 13; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15]).” (Luke 14:25-27)

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
You posted this before. It was an equivocation then, and still is. Jesus wasn't talking about the cross on which He would later die, so the assertion that He was talking about "the" cross is not supported. Here are Jesus' words without the commentary:

25 And there went great multitudes with Him: and He turned, and said unto them
26 If any man come to Me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple
27 And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple. (Luke 14:25-27)


The rest of your quotation is from Swaggart. I wonder why you present Swaggart's words in bold, as though they are more important.
 
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What did Jesus say about the Cross?

DISCIPLESHIP

25 And there went great multitudes with Him (proclaims Him having left the home of this Pharisee, and now continuing His journey toward Jerusalem): and He turned, and said unto them (He was anxious now, at the end, clearly to make it known to all these multitudes what serving Him really signified),

26 If any man come to Me (no exceptions), and hate (prefer) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also (no affection, however strong, must be permitted to compete with or displace Christ), he cannot be My Disciple (once again, no exceptions!).”

“27 And whosoever does not bear his Cross (this doesn’t speak of suffering as most think, but rather ever making the Cross of Christ the Object of our Faith; we are Saved and we are victorious not by suffering, although that sometimes will happen, or any other similar things, but rather by our Faith, but always with the Cross of Christ as the Object of that Faith), and come after Me (one can follow Christ only by Faith in what He has done for us at the Cross; He recognizes nothing else), cannot be My Disciple (the statement is emphatic!; if it’s not Faith in the Cross of Christ, then it’s faith that God will not recognize, which means that such people are refused [I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Rom. 6:3-14; 8:1-2, 11, 13; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15]).” (Luke 14:25-27)

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
Take up your cross and follow me would have to be talking about the sanctification process renewing the mind to the new creation that the person has become or else the person would be talking about self righteousness,no man can be righteous In his own strength.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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Victory? What victory? You could lose it tomorrow? Seeing as how it is up to you really to save yourself. Jesus did His part, but now you believe you have to do yours. Or should I say that is what Swaggart believes. You are just his parrot.
Obviously you are Armenian. Calvinists believe OSAS.
“As it regards the Cross of Christ versus the Resurrection, the great Apostle said:

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the Cross of Christ should be made of none effect” (I Cor. 1:17). If it is to be noticed, he did not say, “lest the Resurrection of Christ should be made of none effect.”

He also said, “For the preaching (Word) of the Cross is to them who perish foolishness; but unto us which are Saved it is the Power of God” (I Cor. 1:18).” “He did not say, “For the preaching of the Resurrection is to them. . . .”

The great Apostle also said, “But we preach Christ Crucified” (I Cor. 1:23). He did not say, as it regards the Atonement, “We preach Christ Resurrected. . . .”

Of course, Paul preached the Resurrection of Christ, even as Chapter 15 of I Corinthians bears out, but not as the Atonement.

He also stated to the Church at Corinth and to all others as well, “For I determined not to know any thing among you save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified” (I Cor. 2:2). He did not say, “For I determined not to know any thing among you save Jesus Christ, and Him Resurrected. . . .”

“He also stated, “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .” (Gal. 6:14). He did not say, “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . .”

As we have stated, while the Resurrection, and the Ascension, and the Exaltation of Christ were of extreme significance, these three tremendous attributes were the result of the Atonement, i.e., “the Cross,” instead of the cause.

Excerpt From
Brother Swaggart, Here Is My Question About The Cross
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/br...my-question-about-the-cross/id917790228?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
The issue is without the Resurrection his death on the cross is meaningless. He said his sign was that of Jonah. As Jonah was in the belly of the fish for 3 nights and days so he would be in the grave for the same time. His resurrection proved he was the Messiah. Thus fulfilling 318 Old Testament Prophecies in his life, death and resurrection.
 
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Take up your cross and follow me would have to be talking about the sanctification process renewing the mind to the new creation that the person has become or else the person would be talking about self righteousness,no man can be righteous In his own strength.
Don’t forget about those “net breaking blessings” (Luke 5:5-6, Psalm 103).