Westboro

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Apr 21, 2020
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#1
The Bible repeatedly warns us about false teachers.
And there are plenty of them; from 'preachers' trying to get money out of you to enrich themselves, to people who try to manipulate your thoughts and actions.

As a relatively new Christian, I'd like to ask if Westboro Baptist Church are false teachers?

I've read that they're hyper-calvinist, but is everything they preach wrong?
 
Mar 14, 2011
67,710
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#2
The Bible repeatedly warns us about false teachers.
And there are plenty of them; from 'preachers' trying to get money out of you to enrich themselves, to people who try to manipulate your thoughts and actions.

As a relatively new Christian, I'd like to ask if Westboro Baptist Church are false teachers?

I've read that they're hyper-calvinist, but is everything they preach wrong?
Why ask about one church in particular?
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
5,620
1,827
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#3
I can't speak much to what they teach since I have never stepped foot in the door, however, their methodology is far from what Christ would expect of them.

Neither Christ, nor the Apostles stormed Rome, Athens, or Corinth screaming at the top of their lungs that God hates them because of their sin.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
5,620
1,827
113
#5
Why ask about one church in particular?
No doubt because of their international notoriety for "protesting" at service members funerals, churches, schools, and of course gay pride parades spreading their message (at the top of their lungs) that God hates homosexuals and that the deaths of service members are to be celebrated as God's retribution for the nation's acceptance of homosexuality.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,530
702
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#6
The Bible repeatedly warns us about false teachers.
And there are plenty of them; from 'preachers' trying to get money out of you to enrich themselves, to people who try to manipulate your thoughts and actions.

As a relatively new Christian, I'd like to ask if Westboro Baptist Church are false teachers?

I've read that they're hyper-calvinist, but is everything they preach wrong?
They have doctrine which anyone can have. But love and compassion are missing. This means God, who is love personified is missing. If they are Hyper Calvinists they are inconsistent because it means God saves the worst sinners. They should preach the gospel only and depend on God to save those who hear.
 
Mar 14, 2011
67,710
13,487
113
#7
I can't speak much to what they teach since I have never stepped foot in the door, however, their methodology is far from what Christ would expect of them.

Neither Christ, nor the Apostles stormed Rome, Athens, or Corinth screaming at the top of their lungs that God hates them because of their sin.
They came into my city and tried to protest something, and most of my cities churches protested them. They looked prety bad on the local news
 
Mar 14, 2011
67,710
13,487
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#8
No doubt because of their international notoriety for "protesting" at service members funerals, churches, schools, and of course gay pride parades spreading their message (at the top of their lungs) that God hates homosexuals and that the deaths of service members are to be celebrated as God's retribution for the nation's acceptance of homosexuality.
Its almost funny, I own property out in Eastern Ohio (I am going there tonight actually) on the way, there is a big church up on a hill. It is called Westborow Baptist Church, I always wondered if it was an affiliate.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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#9
They have doctrine which anyone can have. But love and compassion are missing. This means God, who is love personified is missing. If they are Hyper Calvinists they are inconsistent because it means God saves the worst sinners. They should preach the gospel only and depend on God to save those who hear.
But they would argue that they do love people, because they're warning them that their sin is taking them to hell.

They may not express love in the same way we would, but having watched hours and hours of content on them, I truly believe that they believe they're doing the right thing.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,530
702
113
#10
But they would argue that they do love people, because they're warning them that their sin is taking them to hell.

They may not express love in the same way we would, but having watched hours and hours of content on them, I truly believe that they believe they're doing the right thing.
They are not Calvinists if this is the case. Because all of their hatred would lead to false conversions based on fear and self-interest. True conversion happens where emotions have no effect. It happens spiritually apart from an act of the will. Only then can people know the depts of their sin and seek repentance.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
May 19, 2020
144
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#11
The Bible repeatedly warns us about false teachers.
And there are plenty of them; from 'preachers' trying to get money out of you to enrich themselves, to people who try to manipulate your thoughts and actions.

As a relatively new Christian, I'd like to ask if Westboro Baptist Church are false teachers?

I've read that they're hyper-calvinist, but is everything they preach wrong?
Wikipedia: Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American church known for its use of inflammatory hate speech, especially against LGBT+ people, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, atheists, Muslims, Jews, U.S. soldiers and politicians.[4][5] Multiple sources describe it as a hate group[6] and the WBC is monitored as such by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center. The church has been involved in actions against gay people since at least 1991, when it sought a crackdown on homosexual activity at Gage Park six blocks northwest of the church.[7] In addition to conducting anti-gay protests at military funerals, the organization pickets celebrity funerals and public events.[8] Protests have also been held against Jews and Catholics, and some protests have included WBC members stomping on the American flag or flying the flag upside down on a flagpole. The church also has made statements such as "thank God for dead soldiers," "God blew up the troops," and "God hates America."[9] The church has faced several accusations of brainwashing[10][11][12] and has been criticised as a cult.[13][14]
 
Apr 21, 2020
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#12
They are not Calvinists if this is the case. Because all of their hatred would lead to false conversions based on fear and self-interest. True conversion happens where emotions have no effect. It happens spiritually apart from an act of the will. Only then can people know the depts of their sin and seek repentance.
What I said doesn't imply that they are not Calvinists.

I've seen a documentary in which Westboro members argue that people only begin to follow our Lord Jesus Christ if God puts repentance within them (essentially).
 
Apr 21, 2020
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#13
Wikipedia: Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American church known for its use of inflammatory hate speech, especially against LGBT+ people, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, atheists, Muslims, Jews, U.S. soldiers and politicians.[4][5] Multiple sources describe it as a hate group[6] and the WBC is monitored as such by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center. The church has been involved in actions against gay people since at least 1991, when it sought a crackdown on homosexual activity at Gage Park six blocks northwest of the church.[7] In addition to conducting anti-gay protests at military funerals, the organization pickets celebrity funerals and public events.[8] Protests have also been held against Jews and Catholics, and some protests have included WBC members stomping on the American flag or flying the flag upside down on a flagpole. The church also has made statements such as "thank God for dead soldiers," "God blew up the troops," and "God hates America."[9] The church has faced several accusations of brainwashing[10][11][12] and has been criticised as a cult.[13][14]
Thanks for quoting the introductory remarks about WBC from Wikipedia.

I'm unsure how this answers my question though.
See my original post for my question.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
29,586
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#14
Its almost funny, I own property out in Eastern Ohio (I am going there tonight actually) on the way, there is a big church up on a hill. It is called Westborow Baptist Church, I always wondered if it was an affiliate.
Westboro Baptist Church is an independent church located in Topeka, Kansas, started by Fred Phelps in 1955. They are not affiliated with any denomination, and after Phelps’s death in 2014, his extended family (probably less than 100 people) was believed to constitute most of the membership.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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#15
Thanks for the replies so far.

I have so far been told about how their approach could be much better, and I stated in my original post about how I have read that they're hyper-calvinist.

But to go back to my original question; is everything they preach wrong?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,606
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#16
Thanks for the replies so far.

I have so far been told about how their approach could be much better, and I stated in my original post about how I have read that they're hyper-calvinist.

But to go back to my original question; is everything they preach wrong?
To your specific question: Is everything they preach wrong?

Would it matter? If something they preach is heinously wrong, why would anyone listen to them on other issues? They may actually preach correctly about the deity of Jesus, but would you recommend that anyone listen to them or would you send that someone to another source that doesn't preach absolute garbage on certain topics? Frankly, I'd rather send someone to a source that is biblically sound on most issues and tolerably wrong (as in, holds a different but not heretical view) on secondary debatable issues.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
29,586
7,872
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#17
As a relatively new Christian, I'd like to ask if Westboro Baptist Church are false teachers?

I've read that they're hyper-calvinist, but is everything they preach wrong?
Everything? Probably not. For example: do they preach that God exists? Of course they do. However, their main and plain message seems to be that God hates people/sinners, and that is an absolutely verifiably false teaching from which most of their actions ostensibly spring.
 
Apr 21, 2020
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#18
To your specific question: Is everything they preach wrong?

Would it matter? If something they preach is heinously wrong, why would anyone listen to them on other issues? They may actually preach correctly about the deity of Jesus, but would you recommend that anyone listen to them or would you send that someone to another source that doesn't preach absolute garbage on certain topics? Frankly, I'd rather send someone to a source that is biblically sound on most issues and tolerably wrong (as in, holds a different but not heretical view) on secondary debatable issues.
Thanks for your response Dino, always appreciate your input, along with anybody else's.

I agree with what you said, but that principle applies to all Churches.

For example:
- You and I might say that the hyper-calvinism of Westboro is incorrect, but that they are correct on, say, homosexuality or divorce+remarriage=adultery.
- On the other hand Westboro might argue that other Churches have gone soft on some issues.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,606
7,380
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#20
I agree with what you said, but that principle applies to all Churches.
Yes, it does, and we should apply it accordingly.

For example:
- You and I might say that the hyper-calvinism of Westboro is incorrect, but that they are correct on, say, homosexuality or divorce+remarriage=adultery.
- On the other hand Westboro might argue that other Churches have gone soft on some issues.
That is why it is worthwhile having clear views on which which issues are really important, and which are secondary. There is going to be difference of opinion on the secondary issues (that is what makes up most of the BDF discussions). Personally, I take the appropach that if a particular organization is wrong on a primary issue, their opinion on other issues is irrelevant. For example, the JW's are wrong about the deity of Jesus and the personhood of the Holy Spirit, so I don't look to them for instruction on anything spiritual.