What causes God to hide his face?

[stonesoffire]

Show where the scripture says God brought wrath upon His Son, it doesn't say it like that at all, now some take some verses and assume it means that like these below but that's not what it's saying..

as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live

Or this one that says saved from the wrath of God through Jesus..

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! Rom 5:9

I know some people have been turned off from the gospel because they thought God killed Jesus. Never mind that Jesus said: “No one takes my life from me, but I lay it down of my own accord” (John 10:18).

Isa 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

some say this was was when He became sin for us. I mean this scripture reveals this truth when you look at the Hebrew. Just what I've read, have not studied.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He certainly carried sin to the grave. He died for all yet not all will believe. Belief is a must for all things of God.


Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong hisdays, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

The plan of the Godhead before ever He created all things.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus came to defeat and destroy sin..... NOT to have God (actually, Himself) beat the Hell out of Him (Himself).

This is very religious language. Jesus came to defeat sin? Or did Jesus come to demonstrate
His victory over sin, by becoming man just like us and not sinning, demonstrating both we are
guilty and He is innocent.

By dying and forgiving his murderers he took the consequences of their sin, and forgave it, so
we can have that forgiveness also by identifying our sin with theirs.

And destroy sin? Jesus came to show if we trust Him he can forgive us our sins and lead us
to walk perfectly, thereby destroying sin in our lives and setting us free from slavery.

Sin was never victorious over God, it was us who had the problem. And sin in the world will
be destroyed at judgement by the lake of fire.

Jesus came to forgive the sin in our lives and lead us to victory.

And did God punish Jesus? Forgiveness came at a price, all the worst possible things had to
be done to Christ by man, and Christ to forgive them. It is this forgiveness we get by identifying
ourselves with those people as sinners mocking Christ.

that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
2 Cor 5:19

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin
Rom 6:6

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.
Rom 3:25

The forgiveness is only accessible by faith, and everyone stands condemned.

 

[BeyondET]

Isa 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

some say this was was when He became sin for us. I mean this scripture reveals this truth when you look at the Hebrew. Just what I've read, have not studied.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He certainly carried sin to the grave. He died for all yet not all will believe. Belief is a must for all things of God.


Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong hisdays, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

The plan of the Godhead before ever He created all things.

Yes He did carry the sin upon His shoulders but that wasn't placed upon his shoulders because God brought wrath upon him turned away...

 

[dcontroversal]

God hiding His face from a believer is not really a NT concept, however there are times when it seems that God is very close and personal and other times when it seems that God is nowhere to be found and we are just here on our own.

It is called fellowship which has nothing to do with being a son............If we are in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another........

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus came to defeat and destroy sin..... NOT to have God (actually, Himself) beat the Hell out of Him (Himself).

Just a quote and how would deal with this bro?


English Standard Version
Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

New American Standard Bible
But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

King James Bible
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Yet the LORD was pleased to crush Him severely. When You make Him a restitution offering, He will see His seed, He will prolong His days, and by His hand, the LORD's pleasure will be accomplished.

International Standard Version
"Yet the LORD was willing to crush him, and he made him suffer. Although you make his soul an offering for sin, he will see his offspring, and he will prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will triumph in his hand

 

[royalscot]

Ask, and It Will Be Given
7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!Matthew 7

If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children


if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?

10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock.

it will be opened to you

how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

asking for the correct things,would be a key to getting answers v god doing these things because he love you. etc5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith--

praying in faith with a spiritual teacher(holy spirit)and god giving you something because he love you. are two points that need to be addressed.

how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes He did carry the sin upon His shoulders but that wasn't placed upon his shoulders because God brought wrath upon him turned away...

This might be a silly question, but it's in my head....


What power attributed this sin to Him?

 

[Willie-T]

Just a quote and how would deal with this bro?


English Standard Version
Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

New American Standard Bible
But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

King James Bible
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Yet the LORD was pleased to crush Him severely. When You make Him a restitution offering, He will see His seed, He will prolong His days, and by His hand, the LORD's pleasure will be accomplished.

International Standard Version
"Yet the LORD was willing to crush him, and he made him suffer. Although you make his soul an offering for sin, he will see his offspring, and he will prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will triumph in his hand

God planned to use the expected anger and violence of men to kill Jesus (actually, Himself) to save us from the infection of sin.

This is much as my mother one day locking our screen door when I came running home, screaming with a bully and his friends chasing me. She chose to do that to help me learn to stand up for myself. And even though it hurt her, it "pleased" her (if we insist on using circa 1500 Old English as though it means the same thing in modern day English) to let me get knocked around in a fight. I became a better boy and man because of her letting me be "bruised." It accomplished the end she set out to see come to pass.

There are hundreds of commentaries that will show you how badly that verse is misunderstood, without me having to rewrite their words.

 

[royalscot]

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant Hebrews 9

you were never born under a old covenant. you were all born under a new covenant.

this verse here is telling a jewish convert( to christian teachings.)


Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Well scripture doesn't say God did leave him, so the opposite is true..

My 2¢ ---

I believe God was with Jesus as He hung on the cross, strengthening Him, comforting Him, loving Him. Jesus was doing exactly as God asked Him. What father would ask his child to do something very difficult and then leave the child to do it on his own? No human father would. Why do we think our heavenly Father would leave His Son to bear the cup alone?

Hebrews 12:2 tells us Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Some might claim that the joy set before Jesus was mankind. I'm sorry, but I don't believe I bring much joy. According to Psalm 16:11, only God can provide the joy we need to endure (Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore). The joy set before Jesus was the fullness of joy found only in the presence of God. Was mankind also in mind? Sure. Jesus endured the shame of all mankind as He hung on the cross. But God was definitely there to provide that joy which allowed Jesus to endure the cross, despising the shame.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Uh......... too many places in the Bible tell us that it was NOT God's wrath that fell on Jesus. The Bible actually very clearly spells out WHO it was that killed Jesus, and WHO it was Who saved Him.

My Bible tells me NO ONE killed Jesus ---

John 10:17-18 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[royalscot]

did you miss this verse in your bible. lol

Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection
21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.Matthew 16



all born under a new covenant.


Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them fromthe transgressions committed under the first covenant Hebrews 9


he lay his life down to save the new covenant believers .

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

 

[royalscot]

and the old covenant believers. so he saved ,everyone jews and christian believers .etc

 

[Willie-T]

I guess it sounds Holy, or something, to deny the simple fact that God relied upon rigid Jewish indignation to incite mob mentality and human violence to enact the murder of Jesus.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Matthew 26:

53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


Jesus knew He had to accomplish the task.

Philippians 2:8 tells us Jesus was obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. He laid His life down (John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends).

 

[pottersclay]

The death of Jesus is one of the greatest mysteries that could be pondered for a lifetime.
His life, death, and resurrection is God's master piece.
Looking at the physical, we can say that he died by the hands of his accusers, but that would not be scriptural.
Looking at the cross we could say he died by this cruel implement of death, still not scriptural.
To say he died by the wrath of God which is unmatched by anything known to man, still not scriptural.

Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

 

[pottersclay]

No man has seen God and lived, God's glory, beauty, and radiance would destroy us in the flesh. That's why we need a new body so we can see God as he is among other reasons.
I also believe that the Lord hidding his face is an expression in a lot of the old testament. Meaning not showing favor, not feeling his presence...etc.
In the new testament I think it may be the same as grieving the holy spirit.

 

[yaright]

Good answer. It is written into law concerning redeeming by the blood of the lamb; Jesus fulfilled that law and now it reads by the Blood of the Lamb of God; and this which is hidden from the world is written on our hearts with the indwelling of the Spirit. Men were not able to teach me this. Whether it was spoken before or not, I understood this from the Spirit of our Lord and King.

Today I understand the purpose of 'keys' spoken of by Jesus.

 

[Ariel82]

No man has seen God and lived, God's glory, beauty, and radiance would destroy us in the flesh. That's why we need a new body so we can see God as he is among other reasons.
I also believe that the Lord hidding his face is an expression in a lot of the old testament. Meaning not showing favor, not feeling his presence...etc.
In the new testament I think it may be the same as grieving the holy spirit.

Good point.

So what things do we do that grieves the HOLY Spirit?

 

[Willie-T]

Good point.

So what things do we do that grieves the HOLY Spirit?

Having threads like this where we so completely misunderstand the very father who created us.