WHAT DO WE BELIEVE?

Scotth1960 · Feb 25, 2011

zone said:

your "belief list" is foreign because it is foreign.

anybody who claims they haven't been influenced by some teacher or other is lying.
everybody has presuppositions.

the doctrine you teach is not some grand super-revelation God revealed to you and your disciples...you've been shown over and over where your ideas came from, and that they are false.

who is the "WE"? how many in your group? are you the teacher?

maybe what they taught contradicted what you teach because you are in error. and you didn't open the bible and reach this dispensational doctrine on your own. you got it from dispensational teachers.
its error.
start over.

oh, we're all in error!

the whole church got it all wrong, for 2000 years....thanks to Darby and Scofield we now know the jews who have died in rebellion and unbelief will be resurrected in a millennium into SECOND flesh bodies to "get right with God" under the Mosaic system.

i'll be waiting to see if you and your group EVER apologize.
so far you haven't aknowledged a single correction (of course, you're not wrong, so why apologize, eh?)

people have challenged you. you've been shown error after error.
but you're perfect (the church isn't, that's why you don't like it), and have received the truth directly from God's Word, all by yourself...."you have knowledge on those issues". (not)

you have PLENTY to prove to we who claim you are a false teacher. PLENTY.
dismissing accountability for what you are doing by calling us SCORNERS does not diminish your errors, nor your responsibility.

oh?
"Jesus said dont throw your pearls to the swine.."
"...NOT GOOD...."
"...that would make them look bad, so they have to find a way to cover up and go around it..."

stop your false doctrine.

"dont throw your pearls to the swine.."
"I will not deal with scorners. I have nothing to prove to them"

you're not sharing the truth.
you're spreading false teachings.
and in great quantity.

but your group is ordained by God, ya?

we do understand.
its dispensational rambling.

???
oh my........

you better read the above over and over and let it sink in.

testing the spirits?
done it. stop with the silly teachings ok?

you have.
error.

Dear friends, I believe both Darbyite, Scofieldian, Lindseyian, Walvoordian, LaHayean, Hagee-an, Van Impe-an, etc. dispensationalism and Seventh-day Adventism are error. As is Armstrongism. And Russellism (Jehovah's Witnesses), and Mormonism. They are all in error regarding Daniel, Revelation, and eschatology, the end times of Bible prophecy. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrngton.

zone · Feb 25, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

but you'll never get some folks to admit they've been influenced by these guys.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Feb 25, 2011

zone said:

I'll admit it. I was 'til I was 35. I was as Dispi/Pre-Trib as any lost Pastor could be. Then I heard the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the Spirit taught me from the Word.

Scotth1960 · Feb 25, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

I'll admit it. I was 'til I was 35. I was as Dispi/Pre-Trib as any lost Pastor could be. Then I heard the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the Spirit taught me from the Word.

Click to expand...

I was introduced to Hal Lindsey's writings from someone who must have given his books to my father. I didn't learn pretribulationism from the Lutheran church. The Lutheran church is generally amillennial, as is Roman Catholicism and the Eastern Orthodox Church. I used to be convinced about the rapture by Hal Lindsey. Like anyone in error, he had no doubts about his own nonsense. He did not know or understand that he was misreading and misinterpreting the Bible. He thought the only way you can make sense of the OT and the NT is to read the morning newspaper. Unless it was happening in our day, it wasn't fulfilling OT prophecy in our times. Go figure. Most of OT prophecy has already been fulfilled in the NT of Jesus Christ. Take care.

zone · Feb 25, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

YAY! big HUG! thank you!

i was never pretrib...i read the Bible BEFORE i went to church (LOL)...when i heard it there i was stunned.

but they pushed dispy so much i was kurfuzzled.
i decided to leave millennial teachings alone until i got the critical stuff settled.

after a month of comparison and studying the confessional Lutherans and Reformers, paricularly the Amillinnerians....

BAM!

LOVE ZONEY.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Feb 25, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

I was introduced to Hal Lindsey's writings from someone who must have given his books to my father. I didn't learn pretribulationism from the Lutheran church. The Lutheran church is generally amillennial, as is Roman Catholicism and the Eastern Orthodox Church. I used to be convinced about the rapture by Hal Lindsey. Like anyone in error, he had no doubts about his own nonsense. He did not know or understand that he was misreading and misinterpreting the Bible. He thought the only way you can make sense of the OT and the NT is to read the morning newspaper. Unless it was happening in our day, it wasn't fulfilling OT prophecy in our times. Go figure. Most of OT prophecy has already been fulfilled in the NT of Jesus Christ. Take care.

I'd say Hal was a poster-boy example of a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. No malice, but huge damage from his eventual influence.

LaHaye... don't EVEN get me started...

PneumaPsucheSoma · Feb 25, 2011

zone said:

It's all indoctrination. I believed what I knew rather than knowing what to believe. That's true of most (professing) believers, regardless of affiliation.

No need to live upright by grace through faith, the Rupture is at hand. And it seems I remember a pre-Exodus people who were saved from God's wrath upon Pharoah/Egypt while still in the land. Pre-Wrath is still a Sneak-Out.

The one shall be taken, and the other left... See? God's a selective kleptomaniac.

zone · Feb 26, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

Fuller's Evangelical 'Think Tank'

George Otis was the honorary chairman of "Christians for Reagan", a Christian Voice political project. Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye have both been on the executive board. 36 For George Otis See: The Call DC Plus; The Fuller Evangelical Think Tank; Charisma With Latter Rain << click

http://www.seekgod.ca/fuller2b.htm

journey41 · Feb 27, 2011

Hello, I believe that God is our creator/ heavenly Father and the Father of Jesus Christ.

Now the WORD
John 1:1 In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God.

If we study the wording carefully, it says the WORD was with God.
This word has power and acts on Gods command. It is WITH him. see below

John 1:2 The SAME was in the beginning WITH GOD. (his word)
again, God and his word

another example
John 1:3 All things were made by him (the Word) and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in our image.
Again, God commands and the Word executes. We are talking spiritual things here. Mans word has not the same power when we speak, but God does everything with his Word, and that Word is always with him and obeys him.

So Where does the Word come from? God of course. It's his Word and he makes it clear that it is with him. The Word comes out of him and no-one else.
So the Word is God.

Now the WORD became Flesh, not God became flesh, but the WORD became flesh. Thats what is says... And we know that Gods Word became flesh in the man of Jesus Christ.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood, and his name is called the Word of God.

Thats why that Word was beside God, because he had a purpose for it. He was going to make it flesh,and did, so the word can live amongst man and speak in person. Everything Jesus spoke was God speaking through him, and the Word was not given to Jesus in measure, but the fullness of the Spirit of God was given to him. (John 3:34-35)

That word is also dispersed in to us, but by measure.

The Spirit confirms who you belong to. The spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth God has a spiritual city. It is called Zion, If we worship God in Spirit then we belong to Zion and will recieve our reward. If we do not belong to Zion, then we belong to Babylon (the world, ruled by Satan) There is no inbetween. It's one or the other. We either have the Spirit of God in us, or the Spirit of the world. If anything is not from God, then it is of the World.

The spirit of truth is the holy spirit, (John 14:16-18 & 26) but we are all given it by different measures. Only Jesus has the fullness of the Spirit. We have to feed the spirit in order for it to grow in us, and we do that by reading, learning and living by the Word of God. We have to submitt to the Lord, and change for him.

Thankyou. I hope I my explaination helped you to know where I am coming from.
Regards
Journey

journey41 · Feb 27, 2011

[

No Dave, I dont have a church. Just 2 brethren, thats all. We study together in a loungeroom and we three are related. Thats how we know each other. 2 of us younger ones studied by ourselves for years. We come together now in the last 2 years and we all share what we have learnt. We question each other, we agree & disagree at times, until we find proof to credit or discredit what we have found. We use scripture as our source. We have learnt alot and are still learning every day. I am not perfect, nor did I ever say I was. God is perfect, and the holy spirit is our teacher, for we would not understand anything if the holy spirit was not present and would probably go back to the world we once loved and be doing other things beside sitting on christian chat every chance we get.

Not judging the church members. Just dislike the doctrine the church teaches. Have you judged me in your heart Dave? Were you not sarcastic and defensive of "your church"

[/QUOTE] God is going to use the false prophet to destroy all the churches. The churches have been corrupted. The truth has been trampled. The true church is in you. Dont depend on the church for protection for she will not be here for long. I'm sorry if this hurts, but it is Gods plan. You can still go to church, but let the holy spirit teach you. Read and question everything.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Feb 27, 2011

journey41 said:

Hello, I believe that God is our creator/ heavenly Father and the Father of Jesus Christ.

Now the WORD
John 1:1 In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God.

If we study the wording carefully, it says the WORD was with God.
This word has power and acts on Gods command. It is WITH him. see below

John 1:2 The SAME was in the beginning WITH GOD. (his word)
again, God and his word

another example
John 1:3 All things were made by him (the Word) and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in our image.
Again, God commands and the Word executes. We are talking spiritual things here. Mans word has not the same power when we speak, but God does everything with his Word, and that Word is always with him and obeys him.

So Where does the Word come from? God of course. It's his Word and he makes it clear that it is with him. The Word comes out of him and no-one else.
So the Word is God.

Now the WORD became Flesh, not God became flesh, but the WORD became flesh. Thats what is says... And we know that Gods Word became flesh in the man of Jesus Christ.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood, and his name is called the Word of God.

Thats why that Word was beside God, because he had a purpose for it. He was going to make it flesh,and did, so the word can live amongst man and speak in person. Everything Jesus spoke was God speaking through him, and the Word was not given to Jesus in measure, but the fullness of the Spirit of God was given to him. (John 3:34-35)

That word is also dispersed in to us, but by measure.

The Spirit confirms who you belong to. The spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth God has a spiritual city. It is called Zion, If we worship God in Spirit then we belong to Zion and will recieve our reward. If we do not belong to Zion, then we belong to Babylon (the world, ruled by Satan) There is no inbetween. It's one or the other. We either have the Spirit of God in us, or the Spirit of the world. If anything is not from God, then it is of the World.

The spirit of truth is the holy spirit, (John 14:16-18 & 26) but we are all given it by different measures. Only Jesus has the fullness of the Spirit. We have to feed the spirit in order for it to grow in us, and we do that by reading, learning and living by the Word of God. We have to submitt to the Lord, and change for him.

Thankyou. I hope I my explaination helped you to know where I am coming from.
Regards
Journey

Yes, thank you. It's very close to what I was thinking you meant, and I understand completely. And you understand the Holy Spirit to be God's Spirit rather than a "person", correct?

superdave5221 · Feb 28, 2011

journey41 said:

God is going to use the false prophet to destroy all the churches. The churches have been corrupted. The truth has been trampled. The true church is in you. Dont depend on the church for protection for she will not be here for long. I'm sorry if this hurts, but it is Gods plan. You can still go to church, but let the holy spirit teach you. Read and question everything.[/quote]

Believe me, I do question everything, and study to find out for myself. We encourage each other in our congregation to do the same. We also uplift and support each other, spiritually, and temporally. This was the pattern that Holy Spirit taught the apostles, when they set up the first church.

We do not believe in denominations. There is only ONE church of God. And we are members. Jesus has promised that His church will never be destroyed. I can see where you are coming from, but your words are devisive.

If you read Paul's epistles, there is a common theme throughout all of them, (with the exception of Philemon). There are three main concerns that are evident. These are unity, false teaching, and morality. False teaching has crept into many congregations, but not all. Even immorality is present in some, but again not all. What is mainly evident is the lack of unity.

When Paul addressed the church at Corinth, he knew that there was false teaching and immorality. But he did not say, "leave that false church and study on your own". Instead, he attempted to fix the problems. This, of course, is easier to do when the congregation is self autonomous, which is why that is the way the original church was set up. That is the case with my congregation as well.

In any event, it is not up to you to say that your small group is better than any congregation, or that all congregations are in error. Christ is Lord over His church, and He will do the judging.

wakeup · Feb 28, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

Friend, There is a lot in there that I do not believe. I believe in God. I don't believe in fundamentalist misinterpretations of the Bible, or excessive talk about Satan. May God deliver us from the evil one. Amen. As for dinosaurs being something God did not create, that seems to me a slander against our Creator. Just because we don't understand why dinosaurs were there, doesn't mean God didn't do it. As for satan and the demons having sexual relations with animals and with some people, this is nonsense. Angels are bodiless powers, and are incapable of carnal relations. When angels fall into sin, and become demons, they do not acquire physical bodies. Good angels, on the one hand, and bad angels (demons) on the other are bodiless. Such speculation such as this about some things in Genesis is pointless. What we need to believe is the Gospel: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. We are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ upon the Cross. Christ gave Himself as God's gift of love to make possible the gift of eternal life for those of us who believe in Him (John 3:16). John 3:16 is a key to all the rest that we should believe. Not speculations based on a misreading of the book of Genesis on sex, dinosaurs, or the devil. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

all you have to do is read gen6:1__13
carefully
and backed up by the book of enoch

journey41 · Feb 28, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

Hello again. Yes the Holy Spirit is Gods spirit. The spirit of truth. If we have the holy spirit, we have the spirit of truth in us. The spirit of truth also comforts us, and has power because it is from God, and there is power in truth, it reveals all things and is our connection & bond with our Father. I dont believe the holy spirit to be a person. It is God's truth, with power...

I hope this made sense!
Regards
Journey.

Red33 · Feb 28, 2011

journey41 said:

God is going to use the false prophet to destroy all the churches. The churches have been corrupted. The truth has been trampled. The true church is in you. Dont depend on the church for protection for she will not be here for long. I'm sorry if this hurts, but it is Gods plan. You can still go to church, but let the holy spirit teach you. Read and question everything.[/quote]

If you are speaking of a church (the church) that God had never raised up in the first place, then it has no place in Christ to begin with. These would be assemblies of people that consider themselves a church who do not have the gospel, that don't have the Spirit and that preach another Jesus. But, if you think that God is going to destroy the same church that He has built that the gates of hell will not prevail against (My 16:18), is that not a kingdom divided against itself (Mt 12:25, Eph 2:19)? You claim the churches have been corrupted and I suppose that you have all knowledge of all the churched that God has raised up world-wide and what they teach and the work they are doing?

By this same claim you make yourself above the very church that God has made you a member of (Rom 12:5, 1Cor 12:12) to minister to and to not condemn (2Cor 5:18,19). You are to esteem them better than yourself, but do you live by that truth (Phil 2:3)? When you make this claim you make it against yourself. If you condemn it you condemn yourself, if you judge it you judge yourself (Mt 7:1, 12:37). We are to edify the church and every member of the body of Christ (Rom 14:19), not condemn them randomly, just because you have an understanding with a few people you say is from the Spirit. Are you praying to the Lord of the harvest to send laborers so that God can add to the church (Mt 9:38)? Are you going out yourself, letting your light shine (Mt 5:16) and preaching the gospel to them that are lost and making disciples (2Cor 4:3, Mt 28:19,20)?

Just exactly what do you do to build up the body of Christ that Jesus Christ is going to rapture and present to Himself as His bride without spot, wrinkle or blemish (Eph 5:27), who have been placed in Christ the moment they are saved (86 times in Ephesians)?

resurrection33 · Feb 28, 2011

I believe we should love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Feb 28, 2011

journey41 said:

Yes, it made/makes sense. God's own Word became flesh. God's own Spirit indwells us. The Father and the Spirit aren't distinct/discrete "persons"; and that Word was personified in the flesh, but wasn't an eternally pre-existent "person" distinct/discrete from two other "persons".

Is this an accurate summary of your understanding?

journey41 · Feb 28, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

Yes thats it. Another way I could explain it is that The Word is Gods spoken will. That spoken will was put in Jesus Christ, and he obeyed the will of God till the end. He is now become the Word of God, and that Word is sitting beside God again, but in the Form of Jesus now.

Praise the Lord

Regards
Journey

Scotth1960 · Feb 28, 2011

wakeup said:

The book of Enoch is Apocrypha and no part of Scripture. Only or mainly in Ethiopia do they accept it. Angels, whether good ones, or bad ones, are bodiless minds, and it takes a body to have sex. They don't have bodies, so they can't have sex. It is simple as that.
You are mistaken in your view of Genesis 6:-1-13. You are misinterpreting this badly.

zone · Feb 28, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

both the Zohar and Bristish-Israelism ( and Christian Identity) say satan and eve had sex.

the Zohar says the gentiles were the result, while British-Israelism has some bizarre hybrid serpent-jewish chimera.

putrid fruit from really bad trees.

WHAT DO WE BELIEVE?

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