What do you believe and why do you believe it?

[Spectrox]

Thank you for replying to my post.
Definitely and unmistakably a voice, and not just once, but many times. Some louder and clearer than others, taught me many things I didn't know before.
Mostly about what is actually written in the original languages and the meanings of them.
I would then check out what I was told, and it has always been what I heard.
On one occasion, I was told something I had a very hard time believing.
What the voice said, made sense and was accurate, but I kept going back, doubting the truth of it, until after 5 or 6 times of the same thing. Each time repeating word for word what He said the first time, confirming the same thing with a different scripture verse with an explanation. After that I said, "Okay, I'm not going to doubt it anymore.", and so I accepted what I was told, and that was the end of that, no more instructions or revelations on that particular subject.
I was told some things that would scare the pants and dresses of most believers. Dangerous things for many, if they were not careful. I say that because it scared me and what I commonly believed and told.
I could give you many examples, even quoting what I heard, but what good would that serve.
No offense, but Jesus told us not to cast our pearls before swine/unbelievers, and like many on CC, you fit that description.
The guy spoke of most likely failed to study people who actually believe the word of God and ACT on it, but instead studied people who depend on circumstances to dictate whether God actually answered their prayer or said no. That is not faith. Far from it, and that is one major reason why they failed to receive. Ignorance of the word of God and how faith works.
I not only have had MANY answered prayers, but have COMMANDED things to happen in the name of Jesus, as well, and it manifested/happened, EVEN AS I BELIEVED and spoke.
It is like the law of gravity. It works consistently, every time within its parameters, for whoever truly believes. For it is indeed a law.
If you don't really believe, or if you waver, you can both rest assured and expect, absolutely nothing to happen.
I know some who believed at one time, but fell away simply BECAUSE they failed to receive what they asked for.
You might be one of those people.
I've been there and done that, failing to receive what I asked for, many times over.
But those who continue and don't quit or waver, will ALWAYS get their prayers answered. For ALL the promises of God, in Christ, are ALWAYS yes and it is so or so be it/amen.
Does it happen immediately?
Not often, but God NEVER, EVER says no, to those who are actually "in Him", and both believe and act on what He said without wavering or doubting.
Even the slightest of doubt will, no doubt, cause failure for one to receive. That's a promise written in the book of James, and it's accurate.
Ask all those who fell away because they THOUGHT they believed, when they didn't.
Hoping, wishing, and/or wondering are not the same as the faith written in scripture.

Thank you for sharing this, although I find it a bit vague to discern what's really going on. I asked for a rough, brief transcript. Maybe that's too personal? I had similar experiences when I was a believer. I would open up The Bible and read and feel that my prayer or concern had been answered. But at the time I was unaware of the concept of "the Cold Reading" - the vague, very general script that means something to everyone. See Derren Browne's explanation of this. In reality, my experience was much more random than I originally thought.

 

[Spectrox]

I thought you didn't believe there was a supreme almighty GOD?
Do I have that wrong or do you just not believe the bible has the only answer to heaven, because it's flawed?

I should have added the word "allegedly".

 

[Spectrox]

You know, the thing you seem to be losing out of your sight when saying prayer does not work and trying to create a study about it, is that many people tend to have very fixed ways in which they want their prayers answered. Like, many people don't take no for an answer.
Or, how about this answer: "It's not the time yet"?
Or maybe: "I have another idea, and it's for the better"?
Or even: "Let them have what they want, and fall, and be broken, so I can finally fix them".

God always hears and answers prayers. The thing is, sometimes that answer is "No".
Gasp! Why does this thing not work? I put my coin in and pulled the lever!

Then it's unrepeatable. What you have described is a result that is indistinguishable from a God that doesn't exist.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Thank you for your gentle words and your advice. Your gamble feels like Pascal's Wager which I have dismissed as a good reason for belief. But if it truly works for you then who am I to discourage you?

Actually I read Pascals' wager in one of your posts and went to look it up last night, I didn't even know it was a "thing", lol. I have surely forgotten about this completely, because I did have Philosophy in high school for 4 years. I have always liked the thinkers of the Enlightment, because they carried a hunger for knowledge.

The very thing that you are asking questions and studying and analyzing means you are not happy or finding peace with the state of things as of now. You seem to show a strong need to know and be certain about God, is he there, what is God like, what is true, and so on... and you already know that you have this need! So you are at least maybe in better situation than people who have these questions but try to bury and forget them.

I don't feel discouraged by you at all. Because I have come through my walk to know God, and also experience God. The wager was just a start of a wild ride. I am available to pm when you get tired of debate, if you need anything, or want to ask me questions. Much love.

 

[Spectrox]

Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins et al., have not been able to answer the problems and ramifications that atheism creates and it seems neither have you.

You continue to deflect.

I am not deflecting. Give me your best example of where I am deflecting anything. Maybe Dawkins et al feel that God (which one?) creates so many problems that it makes more sense to simply not believe these claims?

 

[Spectrox]

Not true, at least the latter part. One cannot acknowledge themselves a sinner and confess their sins etc without taking some form of responsibility. Saying we are encouraged not to take responsibility is a flat out lie.

It's not a lie. What about weekly confessionals about the same issues over and over again? If your behaviour really is immoral and is hurting others, then just stop doing it and make amends. If The Bible is being too ideological and unhelpful or too extreme on an issue, then just ignore it.

 

[UnderGrace]

I am not deflecting. Give me your best example of where I am deflecting anything. Maybe Dawkins et al feel that God (which one?) creates so many problems that it makes more sense to simply not believe these claims?

I am trying to discuss moral philosophy and you keep speaking about the Bible to me... that is what I mean about deflecting.

 

[Spectrox]

One scientific study shows that prayer does not work? That is hilarious. Me thinks you simply do not understand the purpose of prayer. God is not a genie in a bottle designed to grant our every wish. Prayer is meant to align our will with His, not the other way around. You simply show that you are more willing to disbelieve and give credit to those who wish to discredit, rather than accept the fact that millions have had prayers answered and miracles happen in their lives. Science is meant to study the natural world, you know, NOT the supernatural

I never said it was a genie in a bottle. The studies were about people praying FOR OTHERS to get better. But why bother incorporating such details in your argument?

 

[Spectrox]

I am trying to discuss moral philosophy and you keep speaking about the Bible to me... that is what I mean about deflecting.

That's not deflecting. It's pinning you down on your presuppositions which affects your entire worldview.

 

[UnderGrace]

That's not deflecting. It's pinning you down on your presuppositions which affects your entire worldview.

Belief in a transcendent moral being can be accepted without the Bible, based completely on moral reasoning.

Even Aristotle was able to arrive at an unmoved mover.

 

[Spectrox]

Laughable. Jesus gave all the evidence needed (empty tomb, eyewitnesses, healings, His word, prophecy, etc.)

No, your "evidence" is laughable. How do you KNOW any of this? The alleged healings cannot be verified. There were no contemporary eye witnesses since the gospels were written decades later. And prophecy has been shown to be no more magical than me predicting that I would receive a medium-rare steak after having ordered it.

 

[Spectrox]

Belief in a transcendent moral being can be accepted without the Bible, based completely on moral reasoning.

Even Aristotle was able to arrive at an unmoved mover.

I think that to get to the truth of any claim that manifests in the physical world, you don't just need reasoning. You need reliable evidence too.

But if you want to lay out a formal logic argument with premises and a conclusion I would be happy to look at it.

 

[Spectrox]

Actually I read Pascals' wager in one of your posts and went to look it up last night, I didn't even know it was a "thing", lol. I have surely forgotten about this completely, because I did have Philosophy in high school for 4 years. I have always liked the thinkers of the Enlightment, because they carried a hunger for knowledge.

The very thing that you are asking questions and studying and analyzing means you are not happy or finding peace with the state of things as of now. You seem to show a strong need to know and be certain about God, is he there, what is God like, what is true, and so on... and you already know that you have this need! So you are at least maybe in better situation than people who have these questions but try to bury and forget them.

I don't feel discouraged by you at all. Because I have come through my walk to know God, and also experience God. The wager was just a start of a wild ride. I am available to pm when you get tired of debate, if you need anything, or want to ask me questions. Much love.

Well, yes. It is a pretty important claim. It's worth spending some time thinking about it and testing it. I appreciate your offer of a private chat. Take care.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Then it's unrepeatable. What you have described is a result that is indistinguishable from a God that doesn't exist.

You are correct, it is unrepeatable.
As some other members have pointed out, science is by itself empirical, which means it dabbles in measurable and relative matters.
While God may permeate the world, God is absolute and immeasurable by definition. So it's kind of a futile way to look for God.

I thought to not respond further since I know one does not come to God through debates, I mostly wanted to give you friendly support, but wanted just to add this as food for your thoughts:
The only experiment where science came close, is the double slit experiment.
The particles behaved differently based on whether they were observed or not.
You, as the observer, just by observing, are changing how particles actually behave, not imagining that they behaved differently. Think about it.
Could this be the reason that for an atheist skeptic observer life unfolds without supernatural occurrences, while for a believer's observer is filled with supernatural activity and miracles of God?
And based on this repeatable experiment, they might not "imagine" it as atheists always think, but miracles actually do unfold .
It's one thing I often thought about. And it's not because God is "mean" or something premeditated. God doesn't premeditate stuff in this way, in spite that it might be delivered so in the language of the Bible in a way that we can relate to. But really, God simply is.
Psalms 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[Spectrox]

That is a misunderstanding of Christianity. "Faith" is not the "cure". Jesus Christ is the "cure" by which "faith" (as the mere conduit) takes hold. Sin is not imaginary, but is a very real 'disease' and which word is but simply the term to describe violation of God's laws, whether Physical or Spiritual (iow moral), hence 'murder' being 'sin'.

Even the 'placebo effect' proves 'faith' to be real, although it will not tell you which faith is real or substantial, or even how to test which is the truth. For that, you need something else.

Do you consider God's support of genocide and slavery a sin or not?

 

[UnderGrace]

I think that to get to the truth of any claim that manifests in the physical world, you don't just need reasoning. You need reliable evidence too.

But if you want to lay out a formal logic argument with premises and a conclusion I would be happy to look at it.

I thought we agreed science cannot explain everything?

 

[Spectrox]

you haven't understood me

You essentially said I had traded truth for nihilism. Whereas from my POV I traded incorrect information for what I perceive to be reality. We are all in the same boat unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

 

[Spectrox]

Why are you spinning?
Christ is not the creator of the universe and He does not know the day and hour of His return...so how could He even predict His 2nd advent?

Matt....24:36 KJV....But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

This is a pure spin to accommodate ......................your slant.....and is not cricket.

If you can't address facts in a debate, I for one, will leave it with your chosen program.

Be blessed.

Jesus is the creator of the universe. You are making a serious error by denying this as it is most definitely contrary to scripture.[/QUOTE]

So what is Matthew 16 all about then? It could be that the text contradicts other declarations. Have you not considered that possibility?

 

[tourist]

Jesus is the creator of the universe. You are making a serious error by denying this as it is most definitely contrary to scripture.

So what is Matthew 16 all about then? It could be that the text contradicts other declarations. Have you not considered that possibility?[/QUOTE]
There is nothing in this chapter that states even remotely that Jesus was not the creator of the universe.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not an evolutionary biologist but I have at least some understanding of evolution and the scientific method. All you have on the subject is willful ignorance.

Sure pal.....assuming = jack crap.......think on that a bit........the bolded is your assumption that I am some Hill Billy "bakwerds" "unsedakated" commoner that just shoot from the hip with a long gun missing the rear sights......

Wake up pal......many on this site are highly educated and wise based upon maturity and experience.....sure some just lip flap with no understanding, education, and or any comprehensible cognitive reasoning.....BUT make no mistake.....there are some highly educated people on this site that don't just shoot from the hip!