What do you believe and why do you believe it?

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May 23, 2012
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I originally posted this message in the New Member Intro section but a member said I should post it here. So here goes...

Colloquially speaking I am an agnostic as I don't know whether or not a god exists. Technically I am an atheist as I don't believe any god claim I have heard. Although I used to be a Christian. I was brought up in the Church of England but properly self-identified as a Christian in my twenties and believed I was saved. I had my doubts after several months as a result of speaking to atheists and ex-Christians. Some things in the Bible stopped making sense to me. Some of the Bible was immoral, some of it was inconsistent and some of it was not credible. I prayed for answers but no answers came. I now consider myself to be an ex-Christian. Every so often I like to challenge my beliefs as I think it is healthy. In that spirit I would like to ask all Christians here what do you believe and why do you believe it?
I believe what I believe because when I believe, I have not seen, heard or taught anything that caused me; not to believe what I believe. That is why I believe.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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So for the most part I would say you do trust your brain, .... you trust the visual processing, motor planning ..... how your brain processes information from the world around you etc..

That is good... common ground
The Dictionary definition of "trust" is something like "having guaranteed reliance on something." Trust is 100% certainty built up as a history of past transactions. I need independent verification sometimes from others or a scientific method to be sure. What you are talking about is "confidence" which is a probability not a certainty. So I have a degree of confidence in my brain but sometimes I cannot be sure.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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Dear child, you are essentially here claiming to be a temporary non-entity comprised of random partical collisions having a psychotic delusion of selfhood without any rational basis to be trusted in anything you say, purportedly carrying the message that we are likewise mere illusionary emergent properties of utter randomness with no ultimate basis for coherence apart from replication of our deluded nothingness. As tho it's some kind of freedom.

You are the one with the 'extraordinary claim' and you are too stupid to even recognize what your own argument is.
I have never claimed that. I dont know if there is an afterlife or not. All the evidence I have is that I am an animal not too disimilar from my pet dog and the myriad of other creatures this planet is teeming with. All you are doing, as I have repeatedly pointed out, is trying to find something wrong with the unbeliever. Its a double negative. You haven't even begun to meet the burden of proof about the Bible although you refer to it when you talk of Jesus and sin. Its just a classic Christian strategy to avoid scrutiny. What is your positive claim and what is your rationale and evidence to support that claim?
 
Jul 25, 2019
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To all ,especially young christians, who follow this thread . Be ware of wolfs in sheeps clothing.
To you Spectrox: Find yourself a different play ground. One where your brain belongs. The kingdom of God is far beyond you.
And yet here we are on this thread. Myself versus dozens of what could be the best Christians in the world supported allegedly by an all-knowing Universe-creating deity. And yet I am finding it alarmingly easy to dismantle your declarations.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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What I know is that you NEVER enjoyed any relationship with God. However do not disappear God his still waiting and knocking.

Meanwhile you should stop spilling your thoughts on a Christian chat program about what or who you are what you believe.

Go to your closet and settle this issue between you and God. Meanwhile spare everyone else the misery you choose to wonder in because you continually reject His council.
I believed I had a relationship with God. You don't know you have a relationship with God because I suspect you would be unable to demonstrate that to an unbeliever. I would take council from the God character in the Bible if it was wise. Very often it isn't.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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I believe that Jesus is Lord and that he came to save the world. I believe he also came for me. I believe Jesus died on the cross and physically rose again on the third day.
I believe that one day he will come again to this world and one day God will make everything right again. One day God will make a new heaven and earth. There will no longer be injustice, violence, and wars. Instead there will be love, joy and peace.

I believe in the existence of both heaven and hell. I believe heaven is more beautiful than this world. I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven.

Reading through Psalm 22, it foretells the crucifixion so well it is as if David was watching it happen. There are plently of other messianic prophecies. There were people who not only died for their faith in Jesus Christ, but who rejoiced in sufferings and also stated they saw the Lord Jesus after his resurrection and would not renounce faith in him. Peter who had once denied the ever knew Jesus three times, after Jesus resurrection, he was bold in proclaiming Jesus in the face of persecution.
Thank you for sharing the what and the why of your belief. In terms of the why - have you not considered the possibility that New Testament scholars read Old Testament scriptures and prophecies? In which case it can hardly be considered a fulfilled prophecy if the events did not happen. Its just plagiarism. Also do you believe miracle claims in other religions e.g Islam or Mormonism. If not, why not?
 
Jul 25, 2019
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Hello and welcome and I have to tell you the truth, your in it now,
What if God had blinded you to the truth for your own protection? Now, what are you going to do? You have gone and made yourself responsible for all the truth you have been given. That's just great. So you now have a choice. Better choose wisely. You get to work it out here or you will work it out there. God loves and wants your love. Doesn't need it. I would study those instructions now because it is so much better to get it now as opposed to later. (ask the rich man)

Every knee shall bow. That means yours, too. Belief or no belief, still no choice. You will receive your answer, even without faith. God created all souls and we all belong to Him, so you don't have to believe it now, but guaranteed, you will. You wont be asking "if" there is a God soon

You know God is real. You know this isn't some big huge "perfect" accident. It is just mathematically impossible for the Bible NOT to be written by God. To like the billionth degree. You don't think all those EX atheists with all those computers at their finger tips didn't try to disprove it yet did you? It hasn't been done because it can't be. Those who set out to "prove" The Word is not real, always become believers.

Another way. The date. If there were any other Gods it would not be used the world over.

God makes promises. Seek, and ye shall find, I did. And He did exactly as He promised.
If God has blinded me to the truth then it really is his responsibility for everything that happens as a consequence of that. Maybe he is using me to test your faith? Who knows?
 
Jul 25, 2019
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With his worldview tho, the only reason he can trust his brain is pragmatism, because the alternative - which would be more honest to his axioms, is to fully embrace the nihilistic madness that is the inescapable conclusion of that worldview.
Either you haven't read a single word I have written or you don't understand what an axiom is. My axioms are:

1. I, as a thinking entity, exist.
2. The Laws of Logic are self-attesting truths due to the impossibility of the contrary.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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I believe what I believe because when I believe, I have not seen, heard or taught anything that caused me; not to believe what I believe. That is why I believe.
Now where has that Klingon-Earth Dictionary gone? I'm sure I put it down on my desk somewhere...
 
Jul 25, 2019
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We are about to embark on it.
My departure from the UK (and therefore this thread) has been delayed for a short while but I am pretty sure I will be leaving sooner rather than later. Maybe at a moment's notice. I am conscious that I probably have very little time left and it would be a shame if I was unable to respond to your argument. How far have you got with it?
 
Jul 25, 2019
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Hello and welcome and I have to tell you the truth, your in it now,
What if God had blinded you to the truth for your own protection? Now, what are you going to do? You have gone and made yourself responsible for all the truth you have been given. That's just great. So you now have a choice. Better choose wisely. You get to work it out here or you will work it out there. God loves and wants your love. Doesn't need it. I would study those instructions now because it is so much better to get it now as opposed to later. (ask the rich man)

Every knee shall bow. That means yours, too. Belief or no belief, still no choice. You will receive your answer, even without faith. God created all souls and we all belong to Him, so you don't have to believe it now, but guaranteed, you will. You wont be asking "if" there is a God soon

You know God is real. You know this isn't some big huge "perfect" accident. It is just mathematically impossible for the Bible NOT to be written by God. To like the billionth degree.
Would you care to demonstrate this mathematically for me? You won't be able to. Even if you believed you had proved that the Universe has to have an all-powerful deity behind it, there is still a long long way to go to prove it also wrote the Bible. In Genesis, it can't even get the order of creation correct. Apparently plants were photosynthesising before the Sun was formed!
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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I believed I had a relationship with God. You don't know you have a relationship with God because I suspect you would be unable to demonstrate that to an unbeliever. I would take council from the God character in the Bible if it was wise. Very often it isn't.
Then why ask if God exist you completely contradicted your opening statement and that proves your just here as a borg scammer

You Believe you had a relationship.
 
May 8, 2016
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The Dictionary definition of "trust" is something like "having guaranteed reliance on something." Trust is 100% certainty built up as a history of past transactions. I need independent verification sometimes from others or a scientific method to be sure. What you are talking about is "confidence" which is a probability not a certainty. So I have a degree of confidence in my brain but sometimes I cannot be sure.
If you prefer confidence that is fine.

And the atheist believes his brain is the end product of an unguided process (evolution) ...correct?
 
Jul 25, 2019
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If you prefer confidence that is fine.

And the atheist believes his brain is the end product of an unguided process (evolution) ...correct?
Not every atheist believes that e.g Raillians. However, from what I know about evolutionary processes, the human brain is possibly the most complex end result thus far from evolution although there are other end results such as bacteria or amoeba which haven't changed much over millions of years. Evolution isn't going anywhere. Evolution does not have a goal.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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Then why ask if God exist you completely contradicted your opening statement and that proves your just here as a borg scammer

You Believe you had a relationship.
Demonstrate my alleged contradiction. You won't be able to. In 1994 I believed The God of the Bible existed. I then became aware of information which cast doubt on that belief. By 1995 I no longer believed that a God existed. I had made a mistake through my own naivety and gullibility. That is all.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Not every atheist believes that e.g Raillians. However, from what I know about evolutionary processes, the human brain is possibly the most complex end result thus far from evolution although there are other end results such as bacteria or amoeba which haven't changed much over millions of years. Evolution isn't going anywhere. Evolution does not have a goal.
Evolution is a farce. Nothing would deliberately evolve into a liberal.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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Another thought has occurred to me. What do Christians make of the Apochrypha - gospels written at around the same time as the accepted gospels - the Gospel of Peter/ Thomas? If there had been a fifth Gospel then we could have had a fifth trip by the women to the tomb. Would they have been overjoyed or frightened on this occasion or would they just have been indifferent?