What do you believe and why do you believe it?

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May 8, 2016
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Not every atheist believes that e.g Raillians. However, from what I know about evolutionary processes, the human brain is possibly the most complex end result thus far from evolution although there are other end results such as bacteria or amoeba which haven't changed much over millions of years. Evolution isn't going anywhere. Evolution does not have a goal.
So what are you stating then you do believe there is a unmoved mover or prime mover?

Please be clear?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Evolution has a lot of self-supporting evidence whereas your assertion does not. What's wrong with being liberal? Do you prefer totalitarianism?
It was a joke, Einstein. Besides, everything is wrong with liberalism. I prefer common sense and integrity to rule the day.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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Demonstrate my alleged contradiction. You won't be able to. In 1994 I believed The God of the Bible existed. I then became aware of information which cast doubt on that belief. By 1995 I no longer believed that a God existed. I had made a mistake through my own naivety and gullibility. That is all.
Fare enough I guess it must of been pretty dramatic,
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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Another thought has occurred to me. What do Christians make of the Apochrypha - gospels written at around the same time as the accepted gospels - the Gospel of Peter/ Thomas? If there had been a fifth Gospel then we could have had a fifth trip by the women to the tomb. Would they have been overjoyed or frightened on this occasion or would they just have been indifferent?
five walk abouts lol might have, what I’m posting next wouldn’t go over well with any Bible scholars heracy cast to chains and beaten.

Lk24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

Mt28:2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.

Mt28:3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.

Mt28:4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
Mt28:5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.

Mt28:6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.
Mt27:52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

Mt27:53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Mt27:54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"

Mk16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

Mt28:11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened.

Mt28:12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money,

Mt28:13 telling them, "You are to say, `His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.'

Mt28:14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble."

Mt28:15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

Jh20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.

Jh20:11 but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb

Jh20:12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

Jh20:13 They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?" "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him."

Jh20:14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Jh20:15 "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."
Jh20:16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).

Jh20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Mk16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

Mk16:10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping.
Jh20:18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

Mk16:11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
Jh20:2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"

Jh20:3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb.
Mk16:3 and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?"

Mk16:4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away.

Jh20:4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first.

Jh20:5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in.

Jh20:6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there,

Jh20:7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen.
Jh20:8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed.

Jh20:9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

Jh20:10 Then the disciples went back to their homes,

Mt28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Mk16:5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

Mk16:6 "Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.

Lk24:4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.

Lk24:5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?

Lk24:6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee:

Lk24:7 `The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.'"

Lk24:8 Then they remembered his words.

Mt28:8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

Mt28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Mt28:10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

Lk24:9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.

Lk24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.

Lk24:11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.
 
Jul 25, 2019
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five walk abouts lol might have, what I’m posting next wouldn’t go over well with any Bible scholars heracy cast to chains and beaten.

Lk24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

Mt28:2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.

Mt28:3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.

Mt28:4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
Mt28:5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.

Mt28:6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.
Mt27:52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

Mt27:53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Mt27:54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"

Mk16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

Mt28:11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened.

Mt28:12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money,

Mt28:13 telling them, "You are to say, `His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.'

Mt28:14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble."

Mt28:15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

Jh20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.

Jh20:11 but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb

Jh20:12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

Jh20:13 They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?" "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him."

Jh20:14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Jh20:15 "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."
Jh20:16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).

Jh20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Mk16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

Mk16:10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping.
Jh20:18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

Mk16:11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
Jh20:2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"

Jh20:3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb.
Mk16:3 and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?"

Mk16:4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away.

Jh20:4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first.

Jh20:5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in.

Jh20:6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there,

Jh20:7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen.
Jh20:8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed.

Jh20:9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

Jh20:10 Then the disciples went back to their homes,

Mt28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Mk16:5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

Mk16:6 "Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.

Lk24:4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.

Lk24:5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?

Lk24:6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee:

Lk24:7 `The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.'"

Lk24:8 Then they remembered his words.

Mt28:8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

Mt28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Mt28:10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

Lk24:9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.

Lk24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.

Lk24:11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.
When I have a bit more time I will read through this. So this is not a Multiple Trips Theory? Has all the pertinent information been included with nothing omitted?
 
May 8, 2016
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Could you give a starting point definition for what you mean by those 2 terms?
Have you read Aristotle?

Since the motion it causes is everlasting, this X (unmoved mover) must itself be an eternal substance. It must lack matter, for it cannot come into existence or go out of existence by turning into anything else. It must also lack potentiality, for the mere power to cause motion would not ensure the sempiternity of motion. It must, therefore, be pure actuality (energeia).
 
May 8, 2016
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Demonstrate my alleged contradiction. You won't be able to. In 1994 I believed The God of the Bible existed. I then became aware of information which cast doubt on that belief. By 1995 I no longer believed that a God existed. I had made a mistake through my own naivety and gullibility. That is all.
What information?
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Spectrox: Its obvious you have educated yourself in the field of physiology . You most likely have a degree in physiology.
So my suggestion is, why not find a physiology chat site? Otherwise know this, you are the man prophets spoke about who
swell up in their own knowledge, boasting themselves against the Knowledge of God.

It is sad, all the saints of God on this site so eager to share Gods love with you , they are like a well you from which you are in
invited to come and drink freely. But you just came to defile and puke your endless vocabulary of humanist thinking into this
well.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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When I have a bit more time I will read through this. So this is not a Multiple Trips Theory? Has all the pertinent information been included with nothing omitted?
Various people at various times, maybe to the point of fundamental
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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Proverbs 22:10
Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.


Proverbs 27:22
Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.


Proverbs 14:7
Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.


Proverbs 29:9
If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.


Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


You, an atheist, have been allowed to come into CC, upset everyone, argue with everyone, scamming, promoting atheism, and trampling on christian beliefs...and instead of kicking you out, we are just arguing endlessly.

I personally have tried to be patient, giving the benefit of the doubt but you keep crossing the line.

I wanted you to know that I have reported you and believe we all should be, to be honest.

I have no ill will towards you personally, just your approach and your beliefs and lack there of.

I pray you consider opening your heart to the One true Savior.
 
May 6, 2017
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Thank you for sharing the what and the why of your belief. In terms of the why - have you not considered the possibility that New Testament scholars read Old Testament scriptures and prophecies? In which case it can hardly be considered a fulfilled prophecy if the events did not happen. Its just plagiarism. Also do you believe miracle claims in other religions e.g Islam or Mormonism. If not, why not?
I am sure the were plently of people back in that day who were reading Scripture and the Prophetic books. Many were looking for a messiah. Psalm 22 is one of the more clearer messianic prophecies but there are others that are not so easily seen. Zechariah 13:7 and Jeremiah 31:15 may be some examples of this. You would have to know your Scripture very well to catch all the prophecies right. Even in the scenario of plagiarism you mentioned, someone would have to be a fool to suffer and die for a faith that same one knows to be false. It would seem unlikely for Christianity to have spread as quickly as it did. In Acts 2:36, Peter flat out says to the people of Israel that they crucified Jesus and God has made Jesus " both Lord and Christ", which is a bold thing to asset. However the people do not respond as if they don't know what he is talking about but rather " were pricked in their heart" and asked " what should we do?" ( see Acts 2:37 KJV )

I don't recall hearing about miracle stories from other religions such as Islam and Mormonism. I can be a bit skeptical at times because I know of " faith healers" who make a show out of it but aren't really healing. Some people are just in it for the money which is sad but sometimes the case. I do believe in miracles still.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
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Would you care to demonstrate this mathematically for me? You won't be able to. Even if you believed you had proved that the Universe has to have an all-powerful deity behind it, there is still a long long way to go to prove it also wrote the Bible. In Genesis, it can't even get the order of creation correct. Apparently plants were photosynthesising before the Sun was formed!
Light, dry earth, plants. AT least set it out in order and don't argue a lie.

I am not going to ask you for 30 or 40 just, 3.

In 150 to 250 years from now, a ruler is going to be born. Just tell me what he will be called, what city he will be born in, and what nation he will rule.. Any one could do that. No, lets make it easier. Anyones name, 200 years from now, the name of the city they are born in and the extraordinary thing that named person will do.
There is your "math" yes???

Here is some of Gods

Here is going to Start the Bible with the EXACT family bloodline through which the person all the preditions about will come, and only that blood line will have meticulous records kept. (So you would need to start keeping record now, making sure everyone who follows in your bloodline for the next 4000 years not only does the same, but that they have to keep all the records safe. And they need to make sure all the copies are the exact same)

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
THEY WROTE, THIS HAPPENED

Luke 2:3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
Luke 2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)

Luke 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.


Jeremiah 31:15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
THEY WROTE, THIS HAPPENED

Matthew 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
Matthew 2:17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,

Matthew 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, andgreat mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
THEY WROTE, THIS HAPPENED
Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luke 1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt
THEY WROTE, THIS HAPPENED

Matthew 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Matthew 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Isaiah 40:4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
Isaiah 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
THEY WROTE, THIS HAPPENED
Luke 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Luke 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth

Luke 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.


Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
THEY WROTE, THIS HAPPENED
Luke 7:24 And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.


Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Malachi 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
THEY WROTE, THIS HAPPENED
Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
WRITTEN, FULFILLED

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

























Z
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
1,405
542
113
Evolution has a lot of self-supporting evidence whereas your assertion does not
For evolution to be true, it can never stop. Where are the 1/8 7/8 skeletons or the half and half. Darwin said archeology would prove him right. How is it that nothing has been found to back him up, yet biblical findings are happening all the time. If it were correct there would be more and more "mixes" as they got closer to what we look like today yet, NOpe. Not like we haven't had people digging everywhere looking for them. Animals from ages ALL OVER the place. NOT one skeleton found in the tar pits???? That in itself proves there is a God, no???