What do you think about works?

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Dean62

New member
Sep 10, 2021
9
7
3
#21
I love the Sermon On The Mount.

Matthew 5:16
16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

This is about others seeing God's glory. In this case through us.

Matthew 6:1-2
6 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

This is about others seeing my glory.

Pride has been a problem for us since the Garden of Eden. Here is a good example:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

In this next, very intense verse, Jesus does what we all struggle to do.

Mark 14:36
36 And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Thy will not mine. An important message of the Bible. The "Good News". It's not about me.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
347
92
28
ogom.co
#22
Then why do you think there are so many posts telling us to be careful of our works because only faith saves, telling us we are dead to the law so we need not listen to it, and on and on? One person says there is only one purpose of law and that is to tell us we are sinful, there is no other reason for it.


they are not listening to their heart / intuition / feelings / sense of right and wrong / conscience / spirit.................................................


and / or:


1....... I could not talk to you as to spiritual people, but [only] as to [a]worldly people [dominated by human nature], mere infants [in the new life] in Christ! 2I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Even now you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly [controlled by ordinary impulses, the sinful capacity].
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
347
92
28
ogom.co
#23
Isaiah 45
7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Wesley's Notes for 1 Corinthians 13:9

13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part - The wisest of men have here but short, narrow, imperfect conceptions, even of the things round about them, and much more of the deep things of God. And even the prophecies which men deliver from God are far from taking in the whole of future events, or of that wisdom and knowledge of God which is treasured up in the scripture revelation.


People's Bible Notes for 1 Corinthians 13:9

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. A reason why these gifts should pass away. Our knowledge is now only partial, and the prophecy only gives glimpses. These are all i m p e r f e c t and f r a g m e n t a r y , and hence must give way to something better.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
2,431
2,674
113
65
#24
I would like to hear someone's take on this, which one is it? Do or don't do in front of men?
Hello Hakawaka, context is everything in these two texts. In Matthew 5, we are commanded to be "salt" and "light" in the lives of the lost and wayward to help lead them out of the darkness and toward the Lord Jesus Christ. As Jesus says to all Christians, "YOU are the salt of the earth and the light of the world" .. Matthew 5:13-16, and we are to be those things in such a way that they see and glorify God, not us.

Matthew 6 is a different matter. There we are told to, "beware of practicing our righteousness before men .. to be noticed by them." IOW, we are told to not be like the Pharisees, who were doing exactly that, practicing their righteous before men to be noticed by them/to seek glory from men for themselves, not for God.

There are many Christian spiritual disciplines that are meant to strengthen us spiritually. Those we can do in secret (praying, fasting, giving, quiet time, etc.) should normally be done in secret (there are exceptions, of course). The point is, everything that we do for the Lord (whether publicly or in secret) should be done in such a way that people are drawn to Him, not to us, in such a way that He receives all of the glory for what we are doing, from other people and from us too.

Perhaps it would help to see the two passages together, so here they are.

Matthew 5
13 You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
14 You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;
15 nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 6
1 Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2 So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
3 But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
5 When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
6 But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

I hope that helps.

God bless you!

~Deut
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
467
83
#25
I would like to hear someone's take on this, which one is it? Do or dont do in front of men?
If you serve God's will, you serve. You don't care who's watching.
I think the verse means, don't make a spectacle of yourself when serving God's will. For you and whomever you happen on who needs your good works to help them.

Remember the parable of the good Samaritan? How many people thinking their prejudices came first? And kept it moving. They worried about how it would look. What others would think? Never thinking one day they may need a charitable heart to save them.
Luke 10
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
467
83
#26
Then why do you think there are so many posts telling us to be careful of our works because only faith saves, telling us we are dead to the law so we need not listen to it, and on and on? One person says there is only one purpose of law and that is to tell us we are sinful, there is no other reason for it.
Well, when it comes to all those different opinions, we can't forget some people have been raised in Denominations that teach the wrong things.

Then there are those who think of themselves as self taught. Some are on the right track. Some are not.
Then, we can't forget the ridiculous little monkey's who enjoy arguing from a ridiculous Soteriological, or Exegetical perspective because they enjoy watching Christians make the effort to correct them. Thinking they're genuine believers and hoping to turn them onto the right path.

Take you're pick. They're everywhere.:giggle:
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
3,271
2,128
113
#27
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
It's about the reason why something is being done. Jesus talked about other things too. For example, it's good to pray, but don't pray with vain repetition. You can judge others, but don't judge them if you're a hypocrite. You can look at people, but don't look at them with lust in your heart. Money isn't evil, but the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

The list goes on.

See how our intentions matter? I believe that's what God is trying to teach us.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,754
352
83
#28
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
There is a difference between works done to be seen and those done out of a pure heart for Jesus.

The Pharisees ad scribes were performing works to be seen not driven by belief in Jesus. Jesus wanted the disciples to do works driven by Jesus love for them in a different way to the legalistic Pharisees.

It's in the context
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,359
10,642
113
#29

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,359
10,642
113
#30
It isn't that I am "wrong' but a matter of understanding. It is correct, they stood firm against heresy but they did not stand firm against how to eat or the day to worship. In the early church they loved each other as is documented even by the Romans who were against them, they were not quick to say to each other "you are misrepresetig".
I know... any remotely corrective word from me offends you. My choice of words and your reaction don't change the truth that I'm trying to convey to you.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
6,599
5,416
113
#32
What do you think about works?

They stem from, and are a logical and spiritual consequence of, Faith.

Ephesians
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
16,218
7,995
113
#33
I would like to hear someone's take on this, which one is it? Do or dont do in front of men?
What Christ was warning about was self-aggrandizement. Making a show of giving, or praying, or what have you. Christians can (and should) do every kind of work which is beneficial to others (particularly the poor, the needy, and the sick), propagates the Gospel, and glorifies God, either by themselves or with the assistance of others. But it is the motivation behind the work with which God is concerned.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
467
83
#35
The law of Christ is not the law of Moses. Gentiles (as a whole) were never under the law of Moses.
We were under what is commonly referred to s the patriarchal law. That term doesn't appear in scripture though. From Eden into the Christian dispensation.

The ten commandments apply because they were reiterated by Jesus. And he also said if we love him we will keep his commands.

Any Christian that insists commands like, thou shalt not murder, steal, etc... don't apply to the Christian today is not someone who lives emulating Christ and his teachings.

We don't love our neighbor if we think God no longer commands us not to murder, or have no gods before him.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,359
10,642
113
#36
We were under what is commonly referred to s the patriarchal law. That term doesn't appear in scripture though. From Eden into the Christian dispensation.

The ten commandments apply because they were reiterated by Jesus. And he also said if we love him we will keep his commands.

Any Christian that insists commands like, thou shalt not murder, steal, etc... don't apply to the Christian today is not someone who lives emulating Christ and his teachings.

We don't love our neighbor if we think God no longer commands us not to murder, or have no gods before him.
There is no need for you to put words in my mouth. Let's go back a few posts; you claimed that the apostles never stopped keeping the law, and that they (Paul in particular) taught gentiles to keep the law because he kept it and taught them to emulate him.

You did not clearly account for the fact that Paul specifically addressed the requirements for gentiles coming to Christ. Following the OT law ("patriarchal law" as you call it) is not required. Instead you implied that following the law is required. Now you are changing gears and talking about the law of Christ. That's equivocation, not sound argumentation.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
I think people are confused. We must determine which works are being discussed

there are works of sanctification which are worked empowered by God as a result of being born again

Then their are self righteous works. Which are works done out of f trying to earn maintain or not lose salvation. These are called dead works ir works of the flesh

The issue was a you can have two people doing the same works. One out of love and the other out of trying to obey some law so God does not condemn you. And people refuse to acknowledge they are different works. Even if the same act

That is what is the issue here on Cc

People Claim we are saved by faith alone and the workers say they reject works and promote sin. Which is a lie straight from satan

Then you have those who promote faith plus works and yet deny these works are self righteous works in the flesh done to try to earn your way to heaven. Which is also a lie straight from satan
 
Sep 15, 2021
8
9
3
#38
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?


God see's our hearts, our intentions.

If we are out doing good things in a way specifically for other people to see our good works, that we may get glory from man, we are doing wrong.

Also, if we are out doing good things in hopes that this is going to buy us salvation, we are surely doing wrong, because salvation is a free gift from God, nothing we can do earns this. Jesus did all the work.

Salvation is only attainable, because Jesus paid the debt for all our sins and opened that door. It is nothing we did or can do that can open that door, Jesus already did it. We just have to walk through it.

To do good things, is surely an outward expression of our love for Christ and a show of thankfulness and joy for the gifts and love that God has so freely given us. To love God with our whole hearts, and to love our neighbor as ourselves!

Basically, if we are saved and have the light of God in us, but are walking in the ways of this world and that light is not showing in our ways and conduct, then our light is not shining.

We are to do God's will, to walk in the light, as HE is in the light.

To let our light shine, is simply to live in the light, and walk in the light as HE is in the light.

It is not that we walk in the light to receive praise from man, but we walk in the light because that is what God says for us to do, and that is the fruit that the Spirit of God will produce in us. Not something intentional to impress people, but the result of the Holy Spirit working in our lives, transforming us from the ways of this world, to the ways of God.

If people see that we are walking in the ways of God, maybe this light will be attractive to them, and help them to come near to God or seek His ways.

There is nothing wrong with doing good things and helping people, there is nothing wrong with letting the world see our love for God and the amazing light HE shines in our lives.

But we should always be mindful of our motives! =)


1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”



Ephesians 5:15-20

15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise,
16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil.
17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,
20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,


James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.


Hebrews 13:20-21

Now may the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
467
83
#39
There is no need for you to put words in my mouth. Let's go back a few posts; you claimed that the apostles never stopped keeping the law, and that they (Paul in particular) taught gentiles to keep the law because he kept it and taught them to emulate him.

You did not clearly account for the fact that Paul specifically addressed the requirements for gentiles coming to Christ. Following the OT law ("patriarchal law" as you call it) is not required. Instead you implied that following the law is required. Now you are changing gears and talking about the law of Christ. That's equivocation, not sound argumentation.
I didn't put words in your mouth. I replied precisely to the words in your post. Thanks.
 

Mofastus

Active member
May 23, 2019
207
104
43
#40
We were under what is commonly referred to s the patriarchal law. That term doesn't appear in scripture though. From Eden into the Christian dispensation.

The ten commandments apply because they were reiterated by Jesus. And he also said if we love him we will keep his commands.

Any Christian that insists commands like, thou shalt not murder, steal, etc... don't apply to the Christian today is not someone who lives emulating Christ and his teachings.

We don't love our neighbor if we think God no longer commands us not to murder, or have no gods before him.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.