What do you think about works?

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Sep 17, 2021
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yes, this is why we are told to:


"... grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. "


g r o w IN both g r a c e and k n o w l e d g e


this must mean there are lesser degrees of grace,

and............................................................... ............... greater


this must mean there are lesser degrees of knowledge,

and............................................................... ................ greater


and to be on our guard (a work -- an awareness -- an always / often work),



so that , so that, so that , so that -- ??


17 ... you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and f a l l from your s e c u r e s t a n d i n g.


You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness (11)
Mean(awesome, cool, brilliant,)....I must admit I was sceptical, and weary of what you posted, but after reading your post's a few times, came to discern your message, and it was put in a language that may be better understood by others, as apposed to the simple language I use, (lack of formal education),.. I fear they still may fall on closed mind's
I for one appreciate the wisdom and the words used, which have inspired me to continue to monitor the fruits of the spirit in me.
You have done what the Bible asked,,, inspired someone to continue faith...thank you
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Mean(awesome, cool, brilliant,)....I must admit I was sceptical, and weary of what you posted, but after reading your post's a few times, came to discern your message, and it was put in a language that may be better understood by others, as apposed to the simple language I use, (lack of formal education),.. I fear they still may fall on closed mind's
I for one appreciate the wisdom and the words used, which have inspired me to continue to monitor the fruits of the spirit in me.
You have done what the Bible asked,,, inspired someone to continue faith...thank you
Not wishing to be semantic if indeed it is.

You say "fruits of the spirit in me"
I assume you are referring to

Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Paul says the fruit.
To me they are not individual fruits but a fruit all encompassed by LOVE.
Our walk is all about love, that is clear from the above and Jesus himself made that clear.
 
Sep 17, 2021
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Not wishing to be semantic if indeed it is.

You say "fruits of the spirit in me"
I assume you are referring to

Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Paul says the fruit.
To me they are not individual fruits but a fruit all encompassed by LOVE.
Our walk is all about love, that is clear from the above and Jesus himself made that clear.
YES that is correct...the fruit's of the spirit.....just as you have correctly highlighted. Galatians 5:22-25

here's how I read it....I have the fruits in me as do you.
against such there is no LAW.....agreed.
24..."and those who are CHRIST's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires"
and this is where a miss-understanding has occur'ed,.... I KNOW my flesh still has it's Passion's and Desiree's,
I KNOW that the fruits of the spirit, in me are not all fully complete ( who can say they are completed but Christ )
so I still need the LAW in me, until such time as deemed by GOD (or death takes me) the fruits are ripe in ME.
ONLY a fool can say he is perfect on this earth, and a fool I AM not.
BUT I can honestly say I am getting good control over many of the fruits...," self control" getting tested immensely on these pages
25: what does the spirit mean to you?
Love IS one of the fruits, ...as we know there are different kinds of love....you must mean the AGAPE love,..."encompassing" again something only GOD & Christ has displayed. now unless you and a few others are as perfect as Christ, then I suggest you keep working on and with your "fruits" just like me.
I hope I have explained your post sufficiently, and without compromise ?
May we all GROW and MOVE forward in the Spirit. GODblessusall.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
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YES that is correct...the fruit's of the spirit.....just as you have correctly highlighted. Galatians 5:22-25

here's how I read it....I have the fruits in me as do you.
against such there is no LAW.....agreed.
24..."and those who are CHRIST's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires"
and this is where a miss-understanding has occur'ed,.... I KNOW my flesh still has it's Passion's and Desiree's,
I KNOW that the fruits of the spirit, in me are not all fully complete ( who can say they are completed but Christ )
so I still need the LAW in me, until such time as deemed by GOD (or death takes me) the fruits are ripe in ME.
ONLY a fool can say he is perfect on this earth, and a fool I AM not.
BUT I can honestly say I am getting good control over many of the fruits...," self control" getting tested immensely on these pages
25: what does the spirit mean to you?
Love IS one of the fruits, ...as we know there are different kinds of love....you must mean the AGAPE love,..."encompassing" again something only GOD & Christ has displayed. now unless you and a few others are as perfect as Christ, then I suggest you keep working on and with your "fruits" just like me.
I hope I have explained your post sufficiently, and without compromise ?
May we all GROW and MOVE forward in the Spirit. GODblessusall.
Paul did not say "Fruits"

He said "The fruit"
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
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25: what does the spirit mean to you?
Love IS one of the fruits, ...as we know there are different kinds of love....you must mean the AGAPE love,..."encompassing" again something only GOD & Christ has displayed. now unless you and a few others are as perfect as Christ, then I suggest you keep working on and with your "fruits" just like me.
Do you know or realise how condescending the above is?

My post reveals what the Holy Spirit means to me.

"Now unless you and a few others are as perfect as Christ, the I SUGGEST YOU KEEP ON WORKING ON AND WITH YOUR FRUITS JUST LIKE ME"

Condescending to the core indeed.
 
Sep 17, 2021
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Paul did not say "Fruits"

He said "The fruit"
SEMANTICS (I think)?.....there are 9 traits mentioned by Paul, that's more than 1, usually in English that means you add an s to imply that.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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SEMANTICS (I think)?.....there are 9 traits mentioned by Paul, that's more than 1, usually in English that means you add an s to imply that.
Nope the Greek word used is singular and not plural, for noun and verb.

Let's look at what Jesus says.

John 15:1-2

The True Vine
1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Fruit and fruit and fruit.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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It says that under the old covenant it taught works, but under the new covenant it teaches faith. Under the old covenant they taught law, under the new one they teach grace. Under the old covenant they teach works, under the new covenant they teach rest.

Yet under the old covenant you find teaching of faith and grace. Those are eternal truths, not old and new. The true law is the spirit of the law and it is eternal, not old and new.
the old covenant was based upon thier works without having faith , or the Holy Ghost. It’s old because of the word presented it spoke on this wise

“ if you keep every command and ordinance Moses has given you , you will be blessed when you enter into the promised land you will live a long blessed life and then sleep with the fathers of you keep everything you were given on Moses book “

“ but if you do not keep every command and ordinance you will be curses when you enter the promised land and I will curse you and not bless I will make the land desolate until you are all destroyed , if you go aside from any of my commandments in Moses book “


Faith speaks like the is after the word of true covenant is given

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not based upon “ if you do each and everything Jesus spoke you will be blessed but if you mess up you are cursed “

it’s based purely on promise of whoever believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved . It produces faith telling us we’re going to be saved if we believe the gospel of the kingdom and as we seek him in the word we’re going to start believing the right things to do and. Ot to do if we keep believing he’s able to soccur us and strengthen us in those things by faith

There are works that come by faith ( by believing Jesus word , that produces the right works in us and then we willingly do those things ) but salvstion by faith


and doing works so you aren’t cursed are different one says “ if you do everything Moses said in the book you will have a blessing if you don’t you’ll be cursed the other says “



“if you believe the gospel you shall be saved if you don’t believe the gospel you’ll be cursed

one word focuses us on our own capability without the Holy Ghost being given to us , without the word of faith that gives us life _

. The other is based solely on receiving the word of life and believing because it’s able to change our hearts and that is where the works come from under faith. There are works we do but we have to hear faith first to understand what they are and that we’re meant to actually do them believing Jesus gospel is what teaches us those things.

our life is a grace period in the gospel to come to repentance and let the gospel doctrine change our hearts so we become zealous of doing the good and turning away from the evil

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one saves by belief first d produces works from that belief , the other tells us the works of the old time , and says do them all or die but doesn’t empower anyone to change in the heart or invite belief that saves
 
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Do you know or realise how condescending the above is?

My post reveals what the Holy Spirit means to me.

"Now unless you and a few others are as perfect as Christ, the I SUGGEST YOU KEEP ON WORKING ON AND WITH YOUR FRUITS JUST LIKE ME"

Condescending to the core indeed.
SORRY....it wasn't written that way, wasn't meant to be that way, ...how is it condescending?
I was just being honest, and made my statements on a post you used to prove your point I used that post and gave what I thought may explain what PAUL is saying.
a few on here think they are saved, I believe I'm yet to be saved, I believe (the Bible says) I need self-control, others say Christ has done that for me,...
"now unless you are perfect (I know 'I'm not), I SUGGEST you keep working ON and IN the "fruit of the Spirit" ...Is it condescending ???

So again I apologise, NO I did not know or realise...
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
Like with everything in life it is a matter of the heart that is the deciding factor. It is true trying to earn our salvation with works if fruitless work it cannot save us or keep us saved. And it is also true doing our works purposely in front of people toshine our light is not what Jesus wants eaither but we do works out of motivation of what is in our hearts not for redeption or for any kind of notice works just naturally flows like a river as if by instinct it just comes naturally.

Think of it this way lots of people do good deeds all the time some people even do many of them a day and they do it out of the goodness of their hearts many are not even christians they just have caring hearts. If even unsaved people can do this without proving anything or wanting to be noticed how much more should we be lead to do such things?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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SORRY....it wasn't written that way, wasn't meant to be that way, ...how is it condescending?
I was just being honest, and made my statements on a post you used to prove your point I used that post and gave what I thought may explain what PAUL is saying.
a few on here think they are saved, I believe I'm yet to be saved, I believe (the Bible says) I need self-control, others say Christ has done that for me,...
"now unless you are perfect (I know 'I'm not), I SUGGEST you keep working ON and IN the "fruit of the Spirit" ...Is it condescending ???

So again I apologise, NO I did not know or realise...
Yes.

I encourage you would have been better.
Further also you said "unless you and a few others are as perfect as Christ" you did not say "I know I'm not" as you have now added above.
Also you did not say the fruit of the spirit as you now say above but in your response you suggested I keep walking on and in my fruits just like you do.

Thanks for the apology, accepted.
Let's just move on.
 
Sep 17, 2021
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Hey BillG, I just realised how fast you were to pick up the condescending on my post, (I don't think I was) and how quick you were to point it out to me,
but haven't done it to others ?
 
Sep 17, 2021
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Yes.

I encourage you would have been better.
Further also you said "unless you and a few others are as perfect as Christ" you did not say "I know I'm not" as you have now added above.
Also you did not say the fruit of the spirit as you now say above but in your response you suggested I keep walking on and in my fruits just like you do.

Thanks for the apology, accepted.
Let's just move on.
because I knew they offended you, I worked on those things, to keep myself in the Spirit of the Lord. like all Christians.
also I imply Im not perfect in my post, if you didn't read it or understand it in my post....read it again
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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the old covenant was based upon thier works without having faith ,
We read the same scripture, yet I interpret the ways of the OT people so different. They were to sacrifice animals as blood given on the altar for the forgiveness of sin, but they had no knowledge of that blood being symbolic of the blood of Christ, yet when God told them to do that they obeyed based on their faith in God. In Isaiah it speaks of people giving blood to feed god like the heathens did and God spoke through Isaiah to say he hated that blood.

The saints were preserved in sleep through Christ as we are told in the book of Matthews, until Christ was crucified. Scripture tells us no one has ever had forgiveness and salvation ever except through Christ. No one has ever been saved through their works. God is eternal, these are eternal truths.
 
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I know the word I was looking for .......PEDANTIC
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I know the word I was looking for .......PEDANTIC
Speaking of ‘pedantic’, would you care to explain why you posted a ‘Disagree’ icon on my post? With what, specifically, do you disagree, and why?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,183
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We read the same scripture, yet I interpret the ways of the OT people so different. They were to sacrifice animals as blood given on the altar for the forgiveness of sin, but they had no knowledge of that blood being symbolic of the blood of Christ, yet when God told them to do that they obeyed based on their faith in God. In Isaiah it speaks of people giving blood to feed god like the heathens did and God spoke through Isaiah to say he hated that blood.

The saints were preserved in sleep through Christ as we are told in the book of Matthews, until Christ was crucified. Scripture tells us no one has ever had forgiveness and salvation ever except through Christ. No one has ever been saved through their works. God is eternal, these are eternal truths.
Mayes we aren’t actually that different in how we read it most of what I think comes from the New Testament and how the apostles explained the law

I don’t think they ever had faith because God said that in the law itself

“And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭32:20‬ ‭

but also because he knew that of them the law is not of faith

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬

They had no faith it’s evident in that while he was writing down the commandments to give to
Moses they were busy breaking the first commandment and making a false god to worship. That’s an act of no faith . And it repeated itself through the generations under the law .

but I do think we’re closer Than you do on what we’re seeing , about the spirit of the law.

if we are to have faith we have to go to the testament that produces faith which is the New Testament ( gospel of the kingdom ) that says this

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it allows for someone to first believe into salvation and for thier faith to fulfill the scripture and produce repentance and righteousness through hearing the word of faith and letting it produce the fruits of Christ

rather than having to first prove the fruits on thier own , and then they won’t be cursed.

as to the sacrifices of animal blood it was only a shadow thier sacrifices had no power to offer forgiveness or remission of sins

“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

An animals lifeblood can’t atone for a mans sin it has to be the blood of a perfect man sacrificed for the sins of man. The law was meant to hold us guilty without remission actually reminding them every year that thier sins hadn’t been remitted

“But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


and this is a foretelling of what Christ would come and do

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭17:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the alter he’s speaking of is in heaven and is what they patterned thiers after in the law only as a necessary reminder that until Christ came thier sins were always present.

I think our wording is sometimes different but a lot of the time what you are saying and what I am saying are pretty close and on par
 
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"Are there any of you who are wise and understanding.? You are to prove it by your good life, by your good deeds, performed with humility and wisdom" James 3:13
 
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Speaking of ‘pedantic’, would you care to explain why you posted a ‘Disagree’ icon on my post? With what, specifically, do you disagree, and why?
I just read your post again 556, and yeah all of it except the last line.
you should read it again, especially how you broke it down, makes it easier to understand my questions, my answer comes from the Lord.
my post above 578
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,981
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I just read your post again 556, and yeah all of it except the last line.
you should read it again, especially how you broke it down, makes it easier to understand my questions, my answer comes from the Lord.
my post above 578
If you disagree with everything I said, except the last line, you have much learning to do.