What do you think about works?

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Mar 14, 2011
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#41
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Yeah we do
1 the law condemns us a sinner
2. The law states the result of sib
3 the law shows what must be done to redeem or atone for sin

So when we are led by the law to have faith in these things and are led to
Christ we establish the law
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,021
1,889
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#42
I think people are confused. We must determine which works are being discussed

there are works of sanctification which are worked empowered by God as a result of being born again

Then their are self righteous works. Which are works done out of f trying to earn maintain or not lose salvation. These are called dead works ir works of the flesh

The issue was a you can have two people doing the same works. One out of love and the other out of trying to obey some law so God does not condemn you. And people refuse to acknowledge they are different works. Even if the same act

That is what is the issue here on Cc

People Claim we are saved by faith alone and the workers say they reject works and promote sin. Which is a lie straight from satan

Then you have those who promote faith plus works and yet deny these works are self righteous works in the flesh done to try to earn your way to heaven. Which is also a lie straight from satan
It seems to me that when people try to mix up the word into words to gentiles and words to Jews instead of listening to the word as simply truth, they do not really hear from God.

God created a race that listened to Him, God created the Hebrews. But to this day, people are saying we are not to listen to what God told the Hebrews, it was ONLY for them. To back up this statement that man gives, God gave them literal helps to learn His ways like cutting skin to help them set themselves apart from the world of the flesh, and then gave them the holy spirit to help them instead. Man accepts the holy spirit without this Jew/gentile thing they have created, but hang on to the Jew/gentile idea of God before pentecost.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,360
435
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#43
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Christianity isn't a by the book religion.
Though God knows there are many in the world who not just disagree but have no idea what I just said.

I think that's why I'm gathering places like this, we witness the evidence of that none the less.
 

Cabrillo

Active member
Sep 6, 2021
196
91
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#44
Christianity isn't a by the book religion.
Though God knows there are many in the world who not just disagree but have no idea what I just said.

I think that's why I'm gathering places like this, we witness the evidence of that none the less.
Yes, the old letter of the law vs. spirit of the law paradox.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,721
10,384
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#45
It seems to me that when people try to mix up the word into words to gentiles and words to Jews instead of listening to the word as simply truth, they do not really hear from God.

God created a race that listened to Him, God created the Hebrews. But to this day, people are saying we are not to listen to what God told the Hebrews, it was ONLY for them. To back up this statement that man gives, God gave them literal helps to learn His ways like cutting skin to help them set themselves apart from the world of the flesh, and then gave them the holy spirit to help them instead. Man accepts the holy spirit without this Jew/gentile thing they have created, but hang on to the Jew/gentile idea of God before pentecost.
God gave the Law to the Jews, NOT to the gentiles.

The gentiles (en masse) were never under the Law.

Christians are not required to follow the Law. We have the Holy Spirit within, guiding us in righteous behaviour.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,021
1,889
113
#46
Yeah we do
1 the law condemns us a sinner
2. The law states the result of sib
3 the law shows what must be done to redeem or atone for sin

So when we are led by the law to have faith in these things and are led to
Christ we establish the law
It is so very good that you listen to what the Lord tells us about the law, up to a certain point, but it is not good that you stop reading scripture after you learn the parts you will read.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,360
435
83
#47
It seems to me that when people try to mix up the word into words to gentiles and words to Jews instead of listening to the word as simply truth, they do not really hear from God.

God created a race that listened to Him, God created the Hebrews. But to this day, people are saying we are not to listen to what God told the Hebrews, it was ONLY for them. To back up this statement that man gives, God gave them literal helps to learn His ways like cutting skin to help them set themselves apart from the world of the flesh, and then gave them the holy spirit to help them instead. Man accepts the holy spirit without this Jew/gentile thing they have created, but hang on to the Jew/gentile idea of God before pentecost.
I've met these type people so, don't underestimate the presence of Antisemitism that insists on that divisive language and (lack of) understanding.

An ex-con rewrote the new testament to fit that ideology. A white supremacists who started and redefined the teachings themselves into Christogenia.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,360
435
83
#48
God gave the Law to the Jews, NOT to the gentiles.

The gentiles (en masse) were never under the Law.

Christians are not required to follow the Law. We have the Holy Spirit within, guiding us in righteous behaviour.
The last sentence following all that you've to say about good deeds, the law of God, says you just don't get it. And how you express that, thinking you're able to lead others to your way of thinking because you think we are wrong, is pride and ego. And that makes it sadder still.
:(
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,721
10,384
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#49
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Most people think that everything Jesus said was for Christians, but He spoke these words were spoken to Jews, not to Christians. Unless we understand the context in which they were spoken, we can easily misinterpret the message.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,721
10,384
113
#50
The last sentence following all that you've to say about good deeds, the law of God, says you just don't get it. And how you express that, thinking you're able to lead others to your way of thinking because you think we are wrong, is pride and ego. And that makes it sadder still.
:(
I have said nothing about good deeds, and I'm not acting in pride and ego.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,033
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#51
Sabbath keeping was not reiterated as a commandment in the NT.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest, not any particular day of the week...


Matthew 11:28-30
:)
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,360
435
83
#53
Sabbath keeping was not reiterated as a commandment in the NT.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest, not any particular day of the week...


Matthew 11:28-30
:)
The Sabbath was God's gift to man,woman.

Jesus is,was, God.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,360
435
83
#54
Most people think that everything Jesus said was for Christians, but He spoke these words were spoken to Jews, not to Christians. Unless we understand the context in which they were spoken, we can easily misinterpret the message.
Yes, you do and have.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,360
435
83
#55
Yes, the old letter of the law vs. spirit of the law paradox.
Jesus is the holy spirit of the holy spiritual law.

The letter of the law never really was meant to be taken as such.

This is why Jesus and his Disciples angered the letter bound Pharisees so much. As when Jesus and his followers worked on the Sabbath.
Jesus was a revolutionary.
He was put here to put things right-eous.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,033
14,962
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#56
The Sabbath was God's gift to man,woman.

Jesus is,was, God.
So? Everything is a gift from God, including Jesus, His sacrifice on our behalf, grace, faith, life itself.

Since you disagreed with my post, could you clarify?

With which part did you disagree?

No reiteration of the commandment for Sabbath keeping in NT?

Or that we are to find our rest in Christ?
 
Sep 8, 2021
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#57
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples, saying, "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NIV)

But just a little bit later he tells them, "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)

These two admonishments seem to be in contradiction with one another; but since they come so close together, it seems like there is probably a way to harmonize them. Are there different types of good deeds one should or should not do before men? What did Jesus mean by each of these statements if they don't contradict one another?

Many posters on this site warn against working because we are saved by faith not works. They add that we can never earn our salvation through works, and our works is not looked at by the Lord to achieve righteousness, that is only given to us as a gift. They feel these things mean we must be careful of our works.

For 300 years the church was led by either the men who knew Christ or were trained by these men. They said that Christ wanted us to live transformed lives, that faith in Christ included faith in all he said and to have faith in him was to live for him. They weren’t interested much in doctrine, they thought people understood scripture differently. They stood united in the core of beliefs and guarded against adding or taking from that core but were tolerant of differences in interpretation. There were heresies they argued against, but would never force their beliefs.

What do you think the Lord wants from us?
I know this first hand how a child of God can do good works and God gets the glory for it when that person comes to a knowledge of the truth. My grandma is a very loving forgiving person. I was a terrible teenager and she constantly forgave me and loved on me. I didnt grow up thinking that God loved me, as a matter of fact I believed the exact opposite. Well....... as I was coming to a knowledge of Truth and that Jesus Christ is real and actually died for my sins I was able to see that He was always there for me growing up. I was able to see this because of the love and forgiveness my grandma showed me. Also it opened my eyes to see that God was there for me through others as well that would stop me on the street and share the gospel with me and help me in times of need. WOW!!!!! what that did for my heart was melt it. God truly loves me and has always been there for me. I seen it. He sent His children to love on me and to show me grace and to show me His forgiveness! Huge part of why I fell in love with Him was this. I wasnt angry at Him anymore. He did love me! So....... When we do what is right and walk in love, seeds truly are being planted. it wasnt until 20 plus years later that the fruit of those seeds came to grow so never grow weary in doing whats right. Im living proof on how important it is to walk in love.

Now........
When I give gifts to people that the Lord tells me to I do not go infront of a church congregation and testify about it and toot my own horn. I dont pray to be seen praying. I do not go bragging about all the good works that God has caused me to walk in. Here is the difference...... My grandma suffered from my troubled bad decisions when I was growing up yet she chose to continue to love me anyway. She didnt do it to be praised by man and to receive sympathy from man but did it because She was obeying Christ. huge differnce


I hope I was able to clearly explain the differences in the 2. Because one is to glorify God and the latter is to receive praise from man


God bless you
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,721
10,384
113
#59
Jesus is the holy spirit of the holy spiritual law.

The letter of the law never really was meant to be taken as such.

This is why Jesus and his Disciples angered the letter bound Pharisees so much. As when Jesus and his followers worked on the Sabbath.
Jesus was a revolutionary.
He was put here to put things right-eous.
Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.

The letter of the law was indeed meant to be followed. A man was found gathering sticks on the Sabbath; he died for that infraction. A king decided to act like a priest; he was stricken with leprosy.

The problem with the Pharisees is that they made up non-biblical interpretations of the Law and imposed them on the people, while rejecting the plain message of the Law and the One to whom it pointed.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,547
7,665
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#60
[QUOTE="Icedaisey, post: 4652142, member: 309093"]Jesus is the holy spirit of the holy spiritual law.[/quote]
No. Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit, who is distinct from Jesus. And Holy Spirit is a proper noun and capitalized.
The letter of the law never really was meant to be taken as such.
Nonsense. For about 1,500 the letter of the Law was to be taken literally and applied as given to Israel, upon pain of death. Of course, no one is justified by the deeds of the Law.
Jesus was a revolutionary.
Nonsense. The Lord Jesus Christ came to FULFIL the Law, and He did so in His life, and in His death, burial, and resurrection. There was no revolutionary here, and Christ did not even address the issue of the Roman occupation of Palestine.

I'm not sure where you are getting your teachings from, but you need to pay attention to what is actually in Scripture.