What does, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved” mean?

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Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#61
Just like satan to add to God's words and now mine - shame on you - READ my Post #22

i want everyone on this forum to bear witness to this:

The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Saints are not appointed to God's wrath, which is the wrath of the Lamb - Rev 6:16

There is no wrath from God upon His Elect/ the Saints/the Bride of Christ/His Overcomers/His Brethren/the Church

From my Post #22 = Praise God - His Elect are not appointed to wrath - AMEN 1 Thessalonians 5: 9-11
I'm not Satan. You're that desperate to lie about my citing the scripture that are repellant to you?
You are a shame.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#62
I'm not Satan. You're that desperate to lie about my citing the scripture that are repellant to you?
You are a shame.
You falsely accused me of saying the Church is appointed to God's wrath

Your words from your Post# 49 - "You believe God's church will suffer God's wrath. What a shame. But it isn't scripture."

You are a proven liar and if you do it again i will report you.

i did not say you are satan - but you are lying like him - and accusing the Brethren

You added to God's words what He did not say and you did the same with me - Now grow up and own your error.
 

Adell

New member
Sep 22, 2021
1
3
3
#63
One who obeys and have faith and trust no matter what they go through. Be Strong family
 
S

SaltwaterGirl

Guest
#64
If The Church, God's Elect, suffer the Great Tribulation as some believe, our King would not tell us His angel's will gather us to him after the Tribulation and from the four winds and from one end of Heaven to the other.
It would say instead, one end of earth to the other. But it doesn't.
What happens at the 7th trump? We are changed into our spiritual bodies. The earth age is over!

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
. . . . .
Matthew 24:31
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​
When Jesus Christ came at His first advent, He humbly rode into Jerusalem on a lowly ass and was later delivered up and beaten and crucified in order to pay the price to bring salvation to whosoever will.This time (7th trump) when He comes at His second advent, it will be with all power and authority to gather His elect and establish His rule upon the earth.

That great sound of a trumpet in verse 31 is the 7th Trumpet, the last trumpet, for there are only seven! By this time the four winds will have been released upon the earth and all those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads will have been taken by storm and swept away in the flood of lies and deception and gathered unto the false messiah.

You can read about the four winds which bring about the final events and the return of Jesus Christ in both Daniel 7 and Rev. 7.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#65
What happens at the 7th trump? We are changed into our spiritual bodies. The earth age is over!

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
. . . . .
Matthew 24:31​
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

When Jesus Christ came at His first advent, He humbly rode into Jerusalem on a lowly ass and was later delivered up and beaten and crucified in order to pay the price to bring salvation to whosoever will.This time (7th trump) when He comes at His second advent, it will be with all power and authority to gather His elect and establish His rule upon the earth.

That great sound of a trumpet in verse 31 is the 7th Trumpet, the last trumpet, for there are only seven! By this time the four winds will have been released upon the earth and all those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads will have been taken by storm and swept away in the flood of lies and deception and gathered unto the false messiah.

You can read about the four winds which bring about the final events and the return of Jesus Christ in both Daniel 7 and Rev. 7.
i just learned something new - the four winds - thank you
 
S

SaltwaterGirl

Guest
#66
i just learned something new - the four winds - thank you
Here’s some more good stuff. :)

THE FOUR WINDS:

In Rev. 7:1, the four angels are holding back the "four winds" that they should not blow, i.e., they are stopping their action.

Rev. 7:1

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Okay, let’s continue...

Rev. 12:7-9

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

The dragon and his angels are none other than Apollyon and his locusts of Rev. 9.

[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Their time is almost up.

[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This happens at the 6th Trump when the FOUR WINDS are let loose to BLOW upon the earth. Let's document it.

Rev. 9:13

And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

The angel of the 6th Trump just blew the battle cry of the trumpet, and he now is going to get a new set of instructions from Jesus Christ to give to the four angels who are holding back the FOUR WINDS:

[14] Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Let the FOUR WINDS blow!

[15] And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

[16] And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

[17] And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

These guys will appear as ministers of Jesus Christ, the role that Satan will play (Levitical priests wore jeweled breastplates; remember?). They will have the power (horses are symbolic of power, remember?) to spiritually rip and tear and shred like lions the people without the Gospel Armor on, and out of their mouths, they will speak utter blasphemy!

So we have learned that the 6th Trump has been held back, which means that the Four Winds, the locust army, has been DELAYED.

But why?

To allow time for God's elect to teach the 144,000 of the House of Israel and the multitudes of others who will listen and take heed and come out of Babylon.

Do you know that Christ shortened the days (the length of time) FOLLOWING the appearance of the abomination of desolation until Christ returns? Do you know WHY He shortened those days? He shortened them for the elect's sake.

Matthew 24:15

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This is Satan, the son of perdition, who is cast out of heaven with his angels and sits in the temple (holy place) claiming that he is God (Jesus). Paul documents this very well in 2 Thes. 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Let's skip down to verse 21.

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Hey, when Michael stands up in Rev. 12:7-9 and boots the locusts and their king out of heaven, it's a time of great SPIRITUAL TRIBULATION!

Remember that the locusts don't physically kill anyone!

Daniel 12:1

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The sealing is over and the entries have been entered into the book when the FOUR WINDS are let loose upon the earth!

Back to Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus just said that the appearance of Satan, the desolator, little horn, the king of the locusts, (and therefore the locust angels too) have had their length of time to HURT the unsealed SHORTENED! For how long? For FIVE MONTHS!

Rev. 9:10

And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Many Christians know about Daniel's prophecies about the 70th week, the last 7 years and their split of 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 years. But it is written that in these last days the "wise would understand,” and part of that understanding is knowing that Jesus Christ gave the command to the angel of the 6th Trump to hold back the FOUR WINDS, the appearance of the locust army and their king. "Don't sound that 6th Trump just yet!" Again, WHY?

For the sake of the ELECT. So they have more time to Seal the 144,000 and as many who will listen BEFORE the Four Winds are let loose. Because when the Four Winds BLOW, the SEALING is OVER! Here's the same statement by Jesus in Mark 13 declaring that the Four Winds will be held back.

Mark 13:20

And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Are you thinking right about now, “Woe, wait a minute there. Haven't you read Mat. 24:24 and Mark 13:22?”

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Folks, these verses do not say that God's elect are in jeopardy of being deceived. To the contrary they declare that Satan (disguised as Jesus) and his locusts (disguised as priests) are really, really, good at the art of deception. They are so good in fact that if it were possible (meaning it is NOT possible if you’ll research this out), they could even deceive the elect. But no; the Elect can't and never will be deceived.

Rev. 12:12

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Only five months; not three and one half years)

The FOUR WINDS are being held back . . .for us to do our job!
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#67
I'm not Satan. You're that desperate to lie about my citing the scripture that are repellant to you?
You are a shame.
I love the Scripture you cite = beautiful and i agree with the Scripture you cite because it is Truth.

This is how we are sanctified in Christ, by His words which are Eternal and Truth - Amen

I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Dwell on these words from our LORD - everyday - Print them out and put them on the wall - if you earnestly and truthfully want to now the Truth, wait on Him and He will open the Scripture to you.

If you want to believe in pre-trib more then John 17 - then you will remain where you are.

Peace in the Word that became flesh and we beheld His Glory - Amen
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#68
Here’s some more good stuff. :)

THE FOUR WINDS:

In Rev. 7:1, the four angels are holding back the "four winds" that they should not blow, i.e., they are stopping their action.

Rev. 7:1

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Okay, let’s continue...

Rev. 12:7-9

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

The dragon and his angels are none other than Apollyon and his locusts of Rev. 9.

[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Their time is almost up.

[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This happens at the 6th Trump when the FOUR WINDS are let loose to BLOW upon the earth. Let's document it.

Rev. 9:13

And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

The angel of the 6th Trump just blew the battle cry of the trumpet, and he now is going to get a new set of instructions from Jesus Christ to give to the four angels who are holding back the FOUR WINDS:

[14] Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Let the FOUR WINDS blow!

[15] And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

[16] And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

[17] And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

These guys will appear as ministers of Jesus Christ, the role that Satan will play (Levitical priests wore jeweled breastplates; remember?). They will have the power (horses are symbolic of power, remember?) to spiritually rip and tear and shred like lions the people without the Gospel Armor on, and out of their mouths, they will speak utter blasphemy!

So we have learned that the 6th Trump has been held back, which means that the Four Winds, the locust army, has been DELAYED.

But why?

To allow time for God's elect to teach the 144,000 of the House of Israel and the multitudes of others who will listen and take heed and come out of Babylon.

Do you know that Christ shortened the days (the length of time) FOLLOWING the appearance of the abomination of desolation until Christ returns? Do you know WHY He shortened those days? He shortened them for the elect's sake.

Matthew 24:15

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This is Satan, the son of perdition, who is cast out of heaven with his angels and sits in the temple (holy place) claiming that he is God (Jesus). Paul documents this very well in 2 Thes. 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Let's skip down to verse 21.

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Hey, when Michael stands up in Rev. 12:7-9 and boots the locusts and their king out of heaven, it's a time of great SPIRITUAL TRIBULATION!

Remember that the locusts don't physically kill anyone!

Daniel 12:1

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The sealing is over and the entries have been entered into the book when the FOUR WINDS are let loose upon the earth!

Back to Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus just said that the appearance of Satan, the desolator, little horn, the king of the locusts, (and therefore the locust angels too) have had their length of time to HURT the unsealed SHORTENED! For how long? For FIVE MONTHS!

Rev. 9:10

And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Many Christians know about Daniel's prophecies about the 70th week, the last 7 years and their split of 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 years. But it is written that in these last days the "wise would understand,” and part of that understanding is knowing that Jesus Christ gave the command to the angel of the 6th Trump to hold back the FOUR WINDS, the appearance of the locust army and their king. "Don't sound that 6th Trump just yet!" Again, WHY?

For the sake of the ELECT. So they have more time to Seal the 144,000 and as many who will listen BEFORE the Four Winds are let loose. Because when the Four Winds BLOW, the SEALING is OVER! Here's the same statement by Jesus in Mark 13 declaring that the Four Winds will be held back.

Mark 13:20

And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Are you thinking right about now, “Woe, wait a minute there. Haven't you read Mat. 24:24 and Mark 13:22?”

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Folks, these verses do not say that God's elect are in jeopardy of being deceived. To the contrary they declare that Satan (disguised as Jesus) and his locusts (disguised as priests) are really, really, good at the art of deception. They are so good in fact that if it were possible (meaning it is NOT possible if you’ll research this out), they could even deceive the elect. But no; the Elect can't and never will be deceived.

Rev. 12:12

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Only five months; not three and one half years)

The FOUR WINDS are being held back . . .for us to do our job!
You blew me away - pun intended - now you gave me extra homework - It looks great - i never studied the four winds

Thank You SaltwaterGirl, i will examine - thank you
 
S

SaltwaterGirl

Guest
#69
You blew me away - pun intended - now you gave me extra homework - It looks great - i never studied the four winds

Thank You SaltwaterGirl, i will examine - thank you
Thank you!

Also, you might enjoy my #48 post. God’s Word is so awesome! B3F7AF74-AAFD-47ED-B403-18C308BBC944.gif
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#71
Here’s some more good stuff. :)

THE FOUR WINDS:

In Rev. 7:1, the four angels are holding back the "four winds" that they should not blow, i.e., they are stopping their action.

Rev. 7:1

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Okay, let’s continue...

Rev. 12:7-9

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

The dragon and his angels are none other than Apollyon and his locusts of Rev. 9.

[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Their time is almost up.

[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This happens at the 6th Trump when the FOUR WINDS are let loose to BLOW upon the earth. Let's document it.

Rev. 9:13

And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

The angel of the 6th Trump just blew the battle cry of the trumpet, and he now is going to get a new set of instructions from Jesus Christ to give to the four angels who are holding back the FOUR WINDS:

[14] Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Let the FOUR WINDS blow!

[15] And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

[16] And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

[17] And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

These guys will appear as ministers of Jesus Christ, the role that Satan will play (Levitical priests wore jeweled breastplates; remember?). They will have the power (horses are symbolic of power, remember?) to spiritually rip and tear and shred like lions the people without the Gospel Armor on, and out of their mouths, they will speak utter blasphemy!

So we have learned that the 6th Trump has been held back, which means that the Four Winds, the locust army, has been DELAYED.

But why?

To allow time for God's elect to teach the 144,000 of the House of Israel and the multitudes of others who will listen and take heed and come out of Babylon.

Do you know that Christ shortened the days (the length of time) FOLLOWING the appearance of the abomination of desolation until Christ returns? Do you know WHY He shortened those days? He shortened them for the elect's sake.

Matthew 24:15

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

This is Satan, the son of perdition, who is cast out of heaven with his angels and sits in the temple (holy place) claiming that he is God (Jesus). Paul documents this very well in 2 Thes. 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Let's skip down to verse 21.

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Hey, when Michael stands up in Rev. 12:7-9 and boots the locusts and their king out of heaven, it's a time of great SPIRITUAL TRIBULATION!

Remember that the locusts don't physically kill anyone!

Daniel 12:1

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The sealing is over and the entries have been entered into the book when the FOUR WINDS are let loose upon the earth!

Back to Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus just said that the appearance of Satan, the desolator, little horn, the king of the locusts, (and therefore the locust angels too) have had their length of time to HURT the unsealed SHORTENED! For how long? For FIVE MONTHS!

Rev. 9:10

And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Many Christians know about Daniel's prophecies about the 70th week, the last 7 years and their split of 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 years. But it is written that in these last days the "wise would understand,” and part of that understanding is knowing that Jesus Christ gave the command to the angel of the 6th Trump to hold back the FOUR WINDS, the appearance of the locust army and their king. "Don't sound that 6th Trump just yet!" Again, WHY?

For the sake of the ELECT. So they have more time to Seal the 144,000 and as many who will listen BEFORE the Four Winds are let loose. Because when the Four Winds BLOW, the SEALING is OVER! Here's the same statement by Jesus in Mark 13 declaring that the Four Winds will be held back.

Mark 13:20

And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Are you thinking right about now, “Woe, wait a minute there. Haven't you read Mat. 24:24 and Mark 13:22?”

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Folks, these verses do not say that God's elect are in jeopardy of being deceived. To the contrary they declare that Satan (disguised as Jesus) and his locusts (disguised as priests) are really, really, good at the art of deception. They are so good in fact that if it were possible (meaning it is NOT possible if you’ll research this out), they could even deceive the elect. But no; the Elect can't and never will be deceived.

Rev. 12:12

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Only five months; not three and one half years)

The FOUR WINDS are being held back . . .for us to do our job!
And His Elect cannot be deceived - WHY??? - "I will send you the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive."

Christ in you (Holy Spirit) the Hope of Glory - Amen

i want you to see something - read Matt 25:1-13
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#72
And of course that is not even the point.

The point is that Jesus commanded us to always pray that we might delivered from those things that are going to come upon the earth and that we might be able to stand before Him...and that He said elsewhere that if we believe that we receive what we pray for, we shall have the thing that we have asked for.

So, if I am obedient to Luke 21:36 and pray for what He told me to pray for...is He then not going to give me what I ask for? It is obviously His will that I ask Him for it because He told me to ask Him for it.

Then, consider this passage.

1Jo 5:14, And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1Jo 5:15, And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


What I am saying in favour of a pre-tribulation rapture for those who are obedient to Luke 21:36 is pretty air-tight impaho.
As far as I can tell, the pre-trib rapture isn't in the scriptures. If it's there and I'm just not seeing it, then I would be inclined to believe the Bible is riddled with contradictions and not credible. I'm speaking hypothetically of course.

What I do see are direct references of when the rapture is and who is raptured mentioned in the Bible.

I see Matthew 24:29-31 being the most solid post-trib rapture passage and 2 Thessalonians 2 being another great post-trib passage.
 
S

SaltwaterGirl

Guest
#73
And His Elect cannot be deceived - WHY??? - "I will send you the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive."

Christ in you (Holy Spirit) the Hope of Glory - Amen

i want you to see something - read Matt 25:1-13
. . .
Would you like to share? :)
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#74
As far as I can tell, the pre-trib rapture isn't in the scriptures. If it's there and I'm just not seeing it, then I would be inclined to believe the Bible is riddled with contradictions and not credible. I'm speaking hypothetically of course.

What I do see are direct references of when the rapture is and who is raptured mentioned in the Bible.

I see Matthew 24:29-31 being the most solid post-trib rapture passage and 2 Thessalonians 2 being another great post-trib passage.
Again, see what I've written here. It clearly shows that there is a pre-tribulation rapture in the holy scriptures.

And of course that is not even the point.

The point is that Jesus commanded us to always pray that we might delivered from those things that are going to come upon the earth and that we might be able to stand before Him...and that He said elsewhere that if we believe that we receive what we pray for, we shall have the thing that we have asked for.

So, if I am obedient to Luke 21:36 and pray for what He told me to pray for...is He then not going to give me what I ask for? It is obviously His will that I ask Him for it because He told me to ask Him for it.

Then, consider this passage.

1Jo 5:14, And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1Jo 5:15, And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


What I am saying in favour of a pre-tribulation rapture for those who are obedient to Luke 21:36 is pretty air-tight impaho.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#75
As far as I can tell, the pre-trib rapture isn't in the scriptures. If it's there and I'm just not seeing it, then I would be inclined to believe the Bible is riddled with contradictions and not credible. I'm speaking hypothetically of course.

What I do see are direct references of when the rapture is and who is raptured mentioned in the Bible.

I see Matthew 24:29-31 being the most solid post-trib rapture passage and 2 Thessalonians 2 being another great post-trib passage.
It comes into view if you rightly divide the nation of Israel from the body of Christ.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#76
And His Elect cannot be deceived - WHY??? - "I will send you the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive."

Christ in you (Holy Spirit) the Hope of Glory - Amen

i want you to see something - read Matt 25:1-13
Obviously not talking about Christians because Christians can be deceived. See the believers at Galatia.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#78
i just learned something new - the four winds - thank you
You’re not rightly dividing Israel and the body of Christ. Matthew is concerning the Jews, Paul writes to the body of Christ. There is a Church rapture which is not seen, then there is a rapture of tribulation Jews.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#79
You’re not rightly dividing Israel and the body of Christ. Matthew is concerning the Jews, Paul writes to the body of Christ. There is a Church rapture which is not seen, then there is a rapture of tribulation Jews.
Who told you that lie? - Matthew is speaking of the Jews
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
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#80
You’re not rightly dividing Israel and the body of Christ. Matthew is concerning the Jews, Paul writes to the body of Christ. There is a Church rapture which is not seen, then there is a rapture of tribulation Jews.
We must Rightly divide the word of truth = Scripture