What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[RR]

[QUOTE="Cameron143, post: 5053230, member: 314370" ]What does it mean that God desires all people to be saved?[/QUOTE]

Therefore, I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. - 1 Timonthy 2:1-4

God will have all men to be saved (from the death conditions that came upon all because of Adam's disobedience; just as the whole race is in a dying condition with the vast majority in the grave, so the Lord will have "all," "every man," saved from this condition of death) and to come to the knowledge of the truth (in order to bring the race--all men--to the knowledge of the truth it would be necessary to resurrect them from the grave, for very few members of the race have come to the knowledge of the truth in this present life, as the Lord Jesus Himself stated on one occasion, "Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life; and few there be that find it"), for there is one God (not three Gods nor many), and one Mediator (go-between), the Man Christ Jesus, who (will satisfy the claims of Divine Justice and bring about the atonement or reconciliation between God and men, because, by the grace of God, He) gave Himself a ransom for all ("every man," which truth; or fact is), to be testified (to all) in due time, when all have come forth from the grave.

 

[Cameron143]

[QUOTE="Cameron143, post: 5053230, member: 314370" ]What does it mean that God desires all people to be saved?

Therefore, I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. - 1 Timonthy 2:1-4

God will have all men to be saved (from the death conditions that came upon all because of Adam's disobedience; just as the whole race is in a dying condition with the vast majority in the grave, so the Lord will have "all," "every man," saved from this condition of death) and to come to the knowledge of the truth (in order to bring the race--all men--to the knowledge of the truth it would be necessary to resurrect them from the grave, for very few members of the race have come to the knowledge of the truth in this present life, as the Lord Jesus Himself stated on one occasion, "Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life; and few there be that find it"), for there is one God (not three Gods nor many), and one Mediator (go-between), the Man Christ Jesus, who (will satisfy the claims of Divine Justice and bring about the atonement or reconciliation between God and men, because, by the grace of God, He) gave Himself a ransom for all ("every man," which truth; or fact is), to be testified (to all) in due time, when all have come forth from the grave.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[PaulThomson]

“The disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus before pentecost. “

it doesn’t say they received the spirit until it says they received the spirit

Thisnis what it plainly says without adding to or taking anything away

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. ( in a few days )

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a few days later this happened to Peter and the disciples just as John first and then Jesus had foretold they would receive

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

….But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: ( Peter is now filled with the Holy Ghost so it makes sense to listen to what he’s saying )

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

….And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:2-4, 14, 16-18, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That tells us they received the holt ghost at pentocost ….this doesn’t say they received anything

“And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:22‬ ‭


It’s just a figure and blessing for what’s coming when he ascended to heaven as it says in acts chi alter one there nd then he did this like it says in chapter two after he ascended to heaven

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter explains it well really the day of pentocost is when the church receives the spirit of Christ or aka the “ Holy Ghost “

If we just read what the apostles are revealing to res never any need to interpret what isn’t there

The holy spirit came when Jesus ascended to his throne

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s to be done then ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You have to follow Gods promises he’s always promised the same thing the same order it’s just about accepting what’s there in scriptire without having to add or take anything away

“The disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus before pentecost. “

it doesn’t say they received the spirit until it says they received the spirit

Thisnis what it plainly says without adding to or taking anything away

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. ( in a few days )

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a few days later this happened to Peter and the disciples just as John first and then Jesus had foretold they would receive

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

….But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: ( Peter is now filled with the Holy Ghost so it makes sense to listen to what he’s saying )

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

….And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:2-4, 14, 16-18, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That tells us they received the holt ghost at pentocost ….this doesn’t say they received anything

“And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:22‬ ‭


It’s just a figure and blessing for what’s coming when he ascended to heaven as it says in acts chi alter one there nd then he did this like it says in chapter two after he ascended to heaven

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter explains it well really the day of pentocost is when the church receives the spirit of Christ or aka the “ Holy Ghost “

If we just read what the apostles are revealing to res never any need to interpret what isn’t there

The holy spirit came when Jesus ascended to his throne

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s to be done then ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You have to follow Gods promises he’s always promised the same thing the same order it’s just about accepting what’s there in scriptire without having to add or take anything away

You are confusing the promise of "the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on all flesh" giving gifts of POWER, with the promise of the individual's new birth by the Holy Spirit giving the gift of A NEW HEART.

The disciples confessed Jesus as Lord and believed in their hearts that God raised Him from the dead. That is what they needed to do to be saved, born of the spirit, justified by faith. It happened in John 20 when Jesus breathed on them and said, "Begin to receive (2nd aorist active imperative) the Holy Spirit."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Cain did what many still do...try to be accepted of God in their own way rather than find acceptance in God's way.

Right Gods way is to do what’s right like abel and not wickedness like cain that’s why God told him that “ just do what’s right and you’ll be accepted but if you don’t sin is crouching and desires to have you “

Gods way is always to do good and not evil

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You are confusing the promise of "the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on all flesh" giving gifts of POWER, with the promise of the individual's new birth by the Holy Spirit giving the gift of A NEW HEART.

The disciples confessed Jesus as Lord and believed in their hearts that God raised Him from the dead. That is what they needed to do to be saved, born of the spirit, justified by faith. It happened in John 20 when Jesus breathed on them and said, "Begin to receive (2nd aorist active imperative) the Holy Spirit."

I do t think I’m confusing anything I’m just accepting what it says the Bible doesn’t say anyone except Jesus received the holy spirit until pentocost. They couldn’t because the gift wasn’t yet given

but it isn’t worth me arguing about it just says what it says some wish to add things th at arent there like “ they received the holt spirit before pentocost

Even though that’s clearly not what happened

a few days before pentocost

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8-9‬ ‭

the day of pentocost

“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Seems basic reading why is he promising the holt spirit to those who already had the holy spirit ? Because he had promised the spirit and then he gave the spirit at pentocost like he said he would

 

[PaulThomson]

I do t think I’m confusing anything I’m just accepting what it says the Bible doesn’t say anyone except Jesus received the holy spirit until pentocost. They couldn’t because the gift wasn’t yet given

but it isn’t worth me arguing about it just says what it says some wish to add things th at arent there like “ they received the holt spirit before pentocost

Even though that’s clearly not what happened

a few days before pentocost

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8-9‬ ‭

the day of pentocost

“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Seems basic reading why is he promising the holt spirit to those who already had the holy spirit ? Because he had promised the spirit and then he gave the spirit at pentocost like he said he would

Jesus spoke about the holy spirit beoming a spring in believers bubbling up to aeonous life.John 4:14. This opening of the well of the Holy Spirit within the disciples present on Resurrection Sunday evening was when Jesus breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."
Jesus also spoke of the Holy Spirit becoming in the disciples "rivers of living water" that would "flow out of their bellies. John 7:38. This was the Holy Spirit coming upon them from above and filling them to overflowing at Pentecost.
The idea that Jesus would command the disciples to start receiving the Holy Spirit (as a bubbling up well), and they did not receive the well at His command, is unbelievable IMHO.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus spoke about the holy spirit beoming a spring in believers bubbling up to aeonous life.John 4:14. This opening of the well of the Holy Spirit within the disciples present on Resurrection Sunday evening was when Jesus breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."
Jesus also spoke of the Holy Spirit becoming in the disciples "rivers of living water" that would "flow out of their bellies. John 7:38. This was the Holy Spirit coming upon them from above and filling them to overflowing at Pentecost.
The idea that Jesus would command the disciples to start receiving the Holy Spirit (as a bubbling up well), and they did not receive the well at His command, is unbelievable IMHO.

Right

Jesus spoke about the holy spirit beoming a spring in believers bubbling up to aeonous life.John 4:14.

did you notice what it says about that elsewhere ? It explicitly says the spirit hadn’t yet been given until he was glorified ……

“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So again I return to pentocost and when Jesus was glorified n his throne and sent the spirit to mankind from heaven they didn’t receive the spirit until he went to heaven and sent it to them at pentocost

this isn’t even a real debate it’s too clearly written the holt spirit is the spirit of Jesus Christ no one receives it until he lived died rose up and ascended to his throne and sent it to them as he said he would all along

It’s just factual the spirit of Christ was sent to believers all believers from this moment forward

from this ….

for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

To this

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted,( he’s now glorofied ) and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”( he’s now sent the promised holt spirit to believers in him fulfilling his promise )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I don’t really see any reason to keep debating it’s too clearly written

 

[ForestGreenCook]

1 Timonthy 2:1-4

Paul sent Timothy to the church in Ephesus that he might charge some that they teach no other doctrine (Tim 1:3). The (ALL MEN) in 1 Tim 2:4 has reference to those that were guilty of teaching false doctrine's. Saved=delivered, according to Strong's concordance. There is a deliverance (salvation) here on earth, when a child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth. Rom 10:1-3 is another example that harmonizes with 1 Tim 2:4.

[QUOTE="Cameron143, post: 5053230, member: 314370" ]What does it mean that God desires all people to be saved?

Therefore, I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. - 1 Timonthy 2:1-4

God will have all men to be saved (from the death conditions that came upon all because of Adam's disobedience; just as the whole race is in a dying condition with the vast majority in the grave, so the Lord will have "all," "every man," saved from this condition of death) and to come to the knowledge of the truth (in order to bring the race--all men--to the knowledge of the truth it would be necessary to resurrect them from the grave, for very few members of the race have come to the knowledge of the truth in this present life, as the Lord Jesus Himself stated on one occasion, "Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life; and few there be that find it"), for there is one God (not three Gods nor many), and one Mediator (go-between), the Man Christ Jesus, who (will satisfy the claims of Divine Justice and bring about the atonement or reconciliation between God and men, because, by the grace of God, He) gave Himself a ransom for all ("every man," which truth; or fact is), to be testified (to all) in due time, when all have come forth from the grave.[/QUOTE]

Mark 10:45 & Matt 20:26 says Jesus gave himself a ransom for "MANY",

 

[PaulThomson]

Right

Jesus spoke about the holy spirit beoming a spring in believers bubbling up to aeonous life.John 4:14.

did you notice what it says about that elsewhere ? It explicitly says the spirit hadn’t yet been given until he was glorified ……

“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So again I return to pentocost and when Jesus was glorified n his throne and sent the spirit to mankind from heaven they didn’t receive the spirit until he went to heaven and sent it to them at pentocost

this isn’t even a real debate it’s too clearly written the holt spirit is the spirit of Jesus Christ no one receives it until he lived died rose up and ascended to his throne and sent it to them as he said he would all along

It’s just factual the spirit of Christ was sent to believers all believers from this moment forward

from this ….

for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

To this

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted,( he’s now glorofied ) and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”( he’s now sent the promised holt spirit to believers in him fulfilling his promise )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I don’t really see any reason to keep debating it’s too clearly written

Jesus was glorified on Resurrection Sunday, Zec.3:1-7 and John 20:17, Matt.28:9-10, Luke 24:25-27, 36-44.

 

[Magenta]

In another topic though, you mentioned that Mary didn't really have a choice when the Angels appeared to her and gave her the good news.
I didn't agree with that because she could have chosen to say No, but the thing is, God already knew her nature so she couldn't say no, but the choice was hers ultimately.
What do you think about that?

Hello and good evening, Eli .

I have kind of been pondering which post or what it was I said that gave you the impression you
expressed here, and I wondered if it was when I said Mary was not asked? But rather informed that
thisis what was going to happen regarding her conceiving a child by the Holy Spirit of God. No biggie...

I have just gotten home from a day at my daughter's and need to move my car... Toodles for now... .

 

[Eli1]

Hello and good evening, Eli .

I have kind of been pondering which post or what it was I said that gave you the impression you
expressed here, and I wondered if it was when I said Mary was not asked? But rather informed that
thisis what was going to happen regarding her conceiving a child by the Holy Spirit of God. No biggie...

I have just gotten home from a day at my daughter's and need to move my car... Toodles for now... .

It was a few months ago so it would be hard to find now, but thank you for clarifying this though.
When i read your description of free will i was happy to see another believer have the same understanding.

 

[Magenta]

It was a few months ago so it would be hard to find now, but thank you for clarifying this though.
When i read your description of free will i was happy to see another believer have the same understanding.

Hey, good morning, Eli! I figured it must have been when someone said Mary had been asked, and I responded, that was not what Scripture said, as she was informed. Yes, she was willing, but Gabriel did not come to her and say, Hey Mary, God and I were wondering if you would be up for a virgin birth to mother the long-awaited Messiah? Heh. I had wondered if it had been something I said since then, but Mary does not necessarily come up much in our CC discussions, though she had around Christmas; the more I thought about it, the more I thought surely it was when I clarified the issue of the annunciation .. I think it is important for us (generally speaking) to faithfully convey what is written, so when I saw someone say she was asked, I felt the need to set that record straight .

Coffee? .

 

[Magenta]

When i read your description of free will i was happy to see another believer have the same understanding.

Yes, it is rare to find others who largely agree on such issues... many think the ability to make choices means we have free will, but I do not see them as being the same thing at all, especially in light of the fact that man's will is constrained by many factors, even aside from what Scripture necessarily teaches, which is that the natural man is a slave to sin. I did experience the question being put to me of whether or not I would believe after a very profound encounter with God and Jesus Christ, and honestly found I could not. However, something happened immediately following that was literally one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. I alluded to it a few day ago, saying I rarely speak of it, because it was so spiritually otherworldly in nature, I don't think many people would be able to relate. I'd had many paranormal experiences in my life before that, but none that terrified me... so that changed the course of my life, because the people I had been consorting with for years could not answer my questions, and said such things to me as, God does not really exist, and, those stories about Jesus Christ are just stories. I could no longer accept those things as true even if I yet could not believe that they were not! It was a few months after that when I met a Christian who explained to me Who Jesus was and how God saw His Son when He looked at us if we were covered by grace through faith in Christ's shed righteous blood. That was an eye opener for me at the time. I started going to church after that, and eventually attended the Alpha Course, during which I came to the realization that I no longer needed any more convincing of the Truth of God's revealed written Word. It was such a relief to know after all my years of running I had finally laid down my opposition to Him!

Praise the Lord

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3

Peter is addressing "the children of the prophets, and of the covenant". they are spiritual Israel, as described in Rev 5:9-10, who were redeemed to God, by the blood of Jesus, out of every kindred, (ALL THE KINDRED'S OF THE EARTH) and tongue, and people, Nation.

In keeping with the harmony of the scriptures, God did not turn away the iniquities of all the inhabitants of the earth.

 

[Tulipbee]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

Calvin in the Comedy Club: The Trip of Predestination
Well, Cameron143, you've spun quite the theological road trip here, and I reckon if John Calvin were here, he'd be ready to hop in the car - but with a few caveats.
Calvin on God's Desire: First off, we're talking about desires, right? But let's remember who we're dealing with here. This isn't Uncle Bob we're talking about, this is God Almighty, the Alpha and Omega. When it comes to God's desires, Calvin said, "We must, therefore, hold that the will of God is one and simple but that because our minds cannot grasp it in its unity, it appears to us as manifold." (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 24, Section 17)
Calvin and Prevenient Grace: Now, you're asking about God's actions towards people. But here's where Calvin might push back on the GPS a bit. God's actions aren't like us deciding who to buy plane tickets for. No, sir. Calvin was a firm believer in predestination. He wrote, "Predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no one desirous of the credit of piety, dares absolutely to deny." (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 5)
Calvin vs. Arminianism and Wesley: And about this Arminianism and Wesley business... Calvin would be quick to point out that while these ideas might make us feel like we're in the driver's seat, the Bible tells us that God is the one behind the wheel. In Romans 9:16, it says, "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
Proclaiming the Gospel: So, Cameron143, while your questions are intriguing, remember this: God's desire for salvation isn't like us planning a family vacation. It's not dependent on our actions or decisions. It's all about His mercy and grace. And that's the heart of the Gospel, the real reason we're on this road trip. As Calvin said, "For our wisdom ought to be nothing else but to embrace with humble teachableness, and at least without finding fault, whatever is taught in Sacred Scripture." (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 18, Section 4)
So, keep those theological wheels turning, but remember, it's God who's navigating! Let's keep this Calvinistic comedy club rolling! Any more theological pit stops you want to make? #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelClarityLinguistics

 

[Cameron143]

Calvin in the Comedy Club: The Trip of Predestination
Well, Cameron143, you've spun quite the theological road trip here, and I reckon if John Calvin were here, he'd be ready to hop in the car - but with a few caveats.
Calvin on God's Desire: First off, we're talking about desires, right? But let's remember who we're dealing with here. This isn't Uncle Bob we're talking about, this is God Almighty, the Alpha and Omega. When it comes to God's desires, Calvin said, "We must, therefore, hold that the will of God is one and simple but that because our minds cannot grasp it in its unity, it appears to us as manifold." (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 24, Section 17)
Calvin and Prevenient Grace: Now, you're asking about God's actions towards people. But here's where Calvin might push back on the GPS a bit. God's actions aren't like us deciding who to buy plane tickets for. No, sir. Calvin was a firm believer in predestination. He wrote, "Predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no one desirous of the credit of piety, dares absolutely to deny." (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 5)
Calvin vs. Arminianism and Wesley: And about this Arminianism and Wesley business... Calvin would be quick to point out that while these ideas might make us feel like we're in the driver's seat, the Bible tells us that God is the one behind the wheel. In Romans 9:16, it says, "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
Proclaiming the Gospel: So, Cameron143, while your questions are intriguing, remember this: God's desire for salvation isn't like us planning a family vacation. It's not dependent on our actions or decisions. It's all about His mercy and grace. And that's the heart of the Gospel, the real reason we're on this road trip. As Calvin said, "For our wisdom ought to be nothing else but to embrace with humble teachableness, and at least without finding fault, whatever is taught in Sacred Scripture." (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 18, Section 4)
So, keep those theological wheels turning, but remember, it's God who's navigating! Let's keep this Calvinistic comedy club rolling! Any more theological pit stops you want to make? #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelClarityLinguistics

Thanks for sharing. Just for clarity, do you believe your action in answering was predestined, your choice, or both?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Thanks for guiding me to Daniel 4:35. Are all things under God's control....yes. Are we all made to worship and honour God...yes. Do we...no. God gives us free will 🥰

Yes, God has given mankind the freedom to choose how they want to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth.

We are all born into this world dead in our sins, even the elect of God, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, and did not have the capability ( to worship and honor God) by choosing the things of the Spirit, until God, by his grace, gave us a new spiritual birth (Eph 2:1-5).

All of those who are born again have a WILL to worship and honor God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The Greek word translated "to will" is "thelein". It means "to desire". That is what we are dealing with in discussions about biblical free will. The freedom to desire what we choose to desire. It has nothing to do with whether we can perform what we desire. I have free will to want to fly. The fact that I cannot is not a constraint on my will, but on my ability.

You are exactly right, the natural man, before he has been born again, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, has no desire to know the things of the Spirit, and also does not have the ability to know the things of the Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

he rejoiced knowing that a Savior would some day appear to perform all that was necessary for his salvation.

Jesus did perform it by his death on the cross, and said "It is finished" and that there would be no more sacrifice for their sins (by mankind's sacrifice to perform all that was necessary for their eternal salvation).

 

[Tulipbee]

Thanks for sharing. Just for clarity, do you believe your action in answering was predestined, your choice, or both?

Ah, Cameron143, the intersection of free will and predestination – a theological roundabout where Calvin might find himself doing a divine dance! In the Calvinist comedy club, let's add a dash of humor to this theological tango.
Quoting Calvin with a touch of Calvinist wit: John Calvin: Now, Cameron143, when it comes to this dance of predestination and choice, Calvin might quip, "Our actions are like divinely choreographed steps in the cosmic ballroom, where God leads, and we follow – a divine dance of providence!" (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Section 8)
Calvin on the Sovereign Shuffle: And if Calvin were to put on his dancing shoes, he'd likely say, "Our choices are like intricate footwork in the grand ballroom of God's sovereign will. The dance floor is His providence, and our steps are guided by His eternal plan." (John Calvin, Divine Dance of Providence, Theological Waltz Edition)
Navigating the Theological Dance Floor: Now, Cameron143, let's waltz through this theological ballroom with a touch of humor. In our Calvinist comedy script, we're saying, "Our steps may feel like our own, but the music and choreography are orchestrated by the Master Choreographer – the sovereign God of predestination."
Proclaiming the Gospel with a Calvinistic Salsa: And at the heart of this divine dance, let's remember the Gospel truth – the reason for our theological salsa! As Calvin proclaimed, "For God so loved the world, that He predestined a heavenly dance, where believers waltz in the grace and mercy of Christ." (Calvin's Gospel Salsa Remix, Gospel According to the Divine Dance)
So, Cameron143, whether you're doing the theological tango or pondering the providential cha-cha, let's keep this Calvinistic comedy club rocking! Any more dance moves you'd like to explore on the divine dance floor? #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelClarityDance