What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[Cameron143]

I know prophecy is not your interest......but I though this to be pertinent nevertheless....

Mal 1:2
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Mal 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness
Mal 1:4
Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.


Eze 25:12
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because that Edom hath dealt against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and hath greatly offended, and revenged himself upon them;
Eze 25:13
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword.
Eze 25:14
And I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel: and they shall do in Edom according to mine anger and according to my fury; and they shall know my vengeance, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 32:29
There is Edom, her kings, and all her princes, which with their might are laid by them that were slain by the sword: they shall lie with the uncircumcised, and with them that go down to the pit.
Joe 3:19
Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
Amo 1:11
Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Edom, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he did pursue his brother with the sword, and did cast off all pity, and his anger did tear perpetually, and he kept his wrath for ever:
Oba 1:8
Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
Jer 49:8
Flee ye, turn back, dwell deep, O inhabitants of Dedan; for I will bring the calamity of Esau upon him, the time that I will visit him.
Jer 49:10
But I have made Esau bare, I have uncovered his secret places, and he shall not be able to hide himself: his seed is spoiled, and his brethren, and his neighbours, and he is not.
Oba 1:9
And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.

Thanks for all you have shared.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Agree. Do you have an answer for the question?

it is God's desire All People are Saved, but not all people want to be Saved.

 

[Cameron143]

it is God's desire All People are Saved, but not all people want to be Saved.

Again I agree. But the question isn't if God desires all men to be saved but does His desire require Him to act upon the desire for it to be a genuine desire.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Again I agree. But the question isn't if God desires all men to be saved but does His desire require Him to act upon the desire for it to be a genuine desire.

normally, yes, but in this scenario God put into play, Free Will. that is going to change the dynamics and rules no matter what.

 

[Nehemiah6]

that's not really true, though, is it?

Why is it not true? God has offered His salvation to all from the very beginning.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 45:22) As to how God has done this is known only to God.

 

[Simona1988]

Unless you know that God sought out Esau then you have no way of knowing whether He did or not. To say with certainty is to go beyond scripture.

To this I reply with John 3:16 and 1 Peter 3:19.

And the scripture also says that God doesn't choose to make Himself known because of anything that is true of us but according to His sovereign pleasure.

I would say that His ways defies our worldly logic and expectations. And this is because His kingdom is not of this world.

But we have gone far afield from the original question.

The problem is how we perceive God and salvation. In my church (Orthodox Church), salvation is not something that depends solely on God. It's an ongoing process of transfiguration. God gives you strength and help, you only have to want to be transformed. In other words, Jesus Christ died on the cross for you, me, Stalin, Mussolini, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler etc. But for many people His sacrifice is in vain. And that's not because God isn't doing His part, but because the person is not doing their part.

 

[Cameron143]

normally, yes, but in this scenario God put into play, Free Will. that is going to change the dynamics and rules no matter what.

Thanks

 

[Cameron143]

To this I reply with John 3:16 and 1 Peter 3:19.



I would say that His ways defies our worldly logic and expectations. And this is because His kingdom is not of this world.



The problem is how we perceive God and salvation. In my church (Orthodox Church), salvation is not something that depends solely on God. It's an ongoing process of transfiguration. God gives you strength and help, you only have to want to be transformed. In other words, Jesus Christ died on the cross for you, me, Stalin, Mussolini, Vladimir Putin, Adolf Hitler etc. But for many people His sacrifice is in vain. And that's not because God isn't doing His part, but because the person is not doing their part.

I'm in no way suggesting God is responsible for man not getting saved. Romans 1 shows man to be without excuse. Neither do I think man is incapable of understanding the gospel. I can explain it satisfactorily to most 6 year olds. And I don't believe there is any reason God wouldn't as a part of salvation engage the person to whom He is conveying Himself. After all, relationship is one of the purposes of salvation.
Where it gets sticky is determining at what point God's initiation meets men's response in faith.

 

[Simona1988]

Where it gets sticky is determining at what point God's initiation meets men's response in faith.

I believe this is called kairos. When God's call is met with our response. And this is an unforgettable encounter, the true worship in spirit and truth.

We are all called to repent (the gr. word for it is "metanoia" - renewal of the mind) in order to acquire the thought of God. All our life should be a perpetual offering to God. We should strive to accomplish God's will (first we have to find out what is His will with each one of us). We must learn to distinguish the spirits. We never know 100% if God accepts our offering or not, but we should keep on trying and coming with different offerings.

Of course, the devil won't sleep and will try to come between us and God. Our weapons against the devil are the prayer, the reading of the Bible and the participation into the life of the Church.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe this is called kairos. When God's call is met with our response. And this is an unforgettable encounter, the true worship in spirit and truth.

We are all called to repent (the gr. word for it is "metanoia" - renewal of the mind) in order to acquire the thought of God. All our life should be a perpetual offering to God. We should strive to accomplish God's will (first we have to find out what is His will with each one of us). We must learn to distinguish the spirits. We never know 100% if God accepts our offering or not, but we should keep on trying and coming with different offerings.

Of course, the devil won't sleep and will try to come between us and God. Our weapons against the devil are the prayer, the reading of the Bible and the participation into the life of the Church.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where it gets sticky is determining at what point God's initiation meets men's response in faith.

There's no need to get philosophical and speculate on matters which belong solely to God. Stick with the basics and you will not go into error.

 

[Blade]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

The song playing now is by Phillips, Craig & Dean "when God Ran". I cry every time. He leaves the 99 for the one. Do we have kids? is there one of them you desire not to be saved? See each one of us have a free choice. Christ cried in then streets asking them to come to Him. So yeah He desires all to be saved. 1/3 of the angels left.. not what God wanted He desired all to stay.

 

[memmett]

Some believe there are those who are predestined for destruction. That God
has predetermined their outcome, through an act of His sovereign will.

Desire is an act of the will.

God has predestined to go to hell all who of their own free will reject His offer of forgiveness.

 

[Cameron143]

There's no need to get philosophical and speculate on matters which belong solely to God. Stick with the basics and you will not go into error.

I don't. I leave it to the experts here.

 

[Cameron143]

The song playing now is by Phillips, Craig & Dean "when God Ran". I cry every time. He leaves the 99 for the one. Do we have kids? is there one of them you desire not to be saved? See each one of us have a free choice. Christ cried in then streets asking them to come to Him. So yeah He desires all to be saved. 1/3 of the angels left.. not what God wanted He desired all to stay.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 3:10-12
I should have posted this earlier... @HeIsHere .

 

[Magenta]

God has predestined to go to hell all who of their own free will reject His offer of forgiveness.

That is different.

 

[CS1]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

For one, you must take the word " desire " in the text and keep in context

2pet 3:8-10

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing (desires) that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The provision to be saved is there for all.

 

[HeIsHere]

Romans 3:10-12
I should have posted this earlier... @HeIsHere .

Very different design, cool!

 

[Magenta]

Very different design, cool!

Yes, thank you, a much simpler layout, and much faster than my normal designs... the
woman is from a Finnish TV series I watched a while back, her name is Pihla Vitala .