What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#141
May 24, 2014
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#141
Cameron143 said:
I'm saying you don't need to assume things into scripture to understand scripture.
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Do you think I do this?
Cameron143 said:
When we do we distort scripture.
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Do you think I do that?
Cameron143 said:
The Bible says the fallen condition of mankind has him not seeking God. The scripture also says that God has done things to help man to seek him.
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There is a big difference between "some not wanting to" and "no one being able to".
Cameron143 said:
Life Bible itself testifies that God deals with people in different ways and to differing degrees.
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That is a good thing, not a bad thing. He knows our frame. He is sensitive to our differences.
Jude 1
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Has something happened recently in your life that has made you angry with God? If so, we can go to God together and pray for restored peace, dear brother.
God is good. We must not lose sight of this simple truth.

Cameron143 said:
I'm amazed sometimes that Christians take positions so adamantly that their understanding is more informed by their positions than scripture
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That does happen. It is very serious and very bad. Do you say I have done this? Please show me if you care about me and truly love me. (This is just for Cameron.)

Cameron143 said:
I'm not directing this comment towards anyone in particular.
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Feel free to PM me if you want to, Cameron.
Cameron143 said:
But individual ideas should be able to stand or fall based on their own without someone having to fall into one camp or another and without predisposing to another a whole set of views because you are so predisposed.
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Not sure what would cause me to be predisposed. I am not beholden to any denomination or religious group. I like to believe that I come from the Word rather that going to it to bolster my own preferences. Let me know if you think otherwise, Cam.

I love you. It is safe for you to talk to me directly, Cam. PM me anytime.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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#142
May 24, 2014
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Cameron143 said:
Again I agree. But the question isn't if God desires all men to be saved but does His desire require Him to act upon the desire for it to be a genuine desire.
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I see this word "desire" keep popping up in your posts. Are you referring to something other than love? Love never forces it's own way. Desire may well do that, but that is not the nature of God's love.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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#143
May 24, 2014
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#143
Cameron143 said:
Where it gets sticky is determining at what point God's initiation meets men's response in faith.
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It seems so simple to me.
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
 
notmyown

notmyown

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May 26, 2016
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Cameron143 said:
Your comments are always welcome. I'm never offended by anyone's posts.
The question was born out of a conversation I was having with another.
The gist of it was how could God both desire salvation for all men and at the same time fit some for destruction.
I think the way most people see these things is based more on their understanding of salvation rather than what may actually be true. But sentiment doesn't allow for a thoughtful discussion.
For the record, I don't believe God has to act on a desire. Neither do I think He has made any to destroy. Every person being born besides Jesus is born into a fallen estate and fit themselves for destruction as a matter of living. All that is required for someone to live, die, and go to hell is for God to do nothing.
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if you mean some receive mercy and some receive justice, i agree. er... is that what you mean?
i probably should have asked that first. :)
 
notmyown

notmyown

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Nehemiah6 said:
Why is it not true? God has offered His salvation to all from the very beginning.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 45:22) As to how God has done this is known only to God.
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i think i see. i didn't expect you to be so optimistic. totally my fault. thank you for explaining!
 
Blain

Blain

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Aug 28, 2012
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Cameron143 said:
Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.
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I like that your really thinking and considering.
we were made in his image so the desire aspect is also instilled in us he desires all to be saved but it is a form want perhaps more of a deeper version version of wanting, but that is exactly what it is a wanting a deep wanting but isn't something that can happen without action you can desire something all you want but unless you do something to achieve it it is just a want a desire.

for us humans we desire something and have to act to make it a reality but notice he opperates differently he desires all to be saved but doesn't enforce his desire on us instead he calls us normally if you have a want or desire you take action to make that happen but he instead doesn't act but calls he wants us to come to him

This is just my thoughts on the matter
 
notmyown

notmyown

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oyster67 said:
Was he not a son of Adam and Noah? Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. His faith was counted as righteousness, which is counted as salvation.


It took the faith sought out by men like Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, which was available to every man ever created until the time further revelation was given.
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i disagree with your conclusions. i still love you, though. ♥
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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Cameron143 said:
This post has only one question. There are plenty of other threads to discuss these other matters. Please
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I did not bring up Rom 1. I was just responding to someone that did bring it up. I question why you would respond in this manner.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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oyster67 said:
Do you think I do this?

Do you think I do that?

There is a big difference between "some not wanting to" and "no one being able to".

That is a good thing, not a bad thing. He knows our frame. He is sensitive to our differences.
Jude 1
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Has something happened recently in your life that has made you angry with God? If so, we can go to God together and pray for restored peace, dear brother.
God is good. We must not lose sight of this simple truth.


That does happen. It is very serious and very bad. Do you say I have done this? Please show me if you care about me and truly love me. (This is just for Cameron.)


Feel free to PM me if you want to, Cameron.

Not sure what would cause me to be predisposed. I am not beholden to any denomination or religious group. I like to believe that I come from the Word rather that going to it to bolster my own preferences. Let me know if you think otherwise, Cam.

I love you. It is safe for you to talk to me directly, Cam. PM me anytime.
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As I stated, the comments were not directed at anyone in particular but I do believe they are true to some extent of us all.
And I appreciate your sentiments towards me and they are mutual.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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oyster67 said:
I see this word "desire" keep popping up in your posts. Are you referring to something other than love? Love never forces it's own way. Desire may well do that, but that is not the nature of God's love.
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The word desire is the term used in 1 Timothy 2:4. That's why I keep referring to it.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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oyster67 said:
It seems so simple to me.
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
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I believe this verse is speaking of fellowship with the believer and not salvation.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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Magenta said:

Jeremiah 29:13-14a
:)
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If I am not mistaken, is not the prophet Jeremiah directing his comments to the residue of the elders, which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets?
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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Blain said:
I like that your really thinking and considering.
we were made in his image so the desire aspect is also instilled in us he desires all to be saved but it is a form want perhaps more of a deeper version version of wanting, but that is exactly what it is a wanting a deep wanting but isn't something that can happen without action you can desire something all you want but unless you do something to achieve it it is just a want a desire.

for us humans we desire something and have to act to make it a reality but notice he opperates differently he desires all to be saved but doesn't enforce his desire on us instead he calls us normally if you have a want or desire you take action to make that happen but he instead doesn't act but calls he wants us to come to him

This is just my thoughts on the matter
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Have you considered Dan 4:35?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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notmyown said:
if you mean some receive mercy and some receive justice, i agree. er... is that what you mean?
i probably should have asked that first. :)
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That's certainly 1 aspect of it.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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T
Blain said:
I like that your really thinking and considering.
we were made in his image so the desire aspect is also instilled in us he desires all to be saved but it is a form want perhaps more of a deeper version version of wanting, but that is exactly what it is a wanting a deep wanting but isn't something that can happen without action you can desire something all you want but unless you do something to achieve it it is just a want a desire.

for us humans we desire something and have to act to make it a reality but notice he opperates differently he desires all to be saved but doesn't enforce his desire on us instead he calls us normally if you have a want or desire you take action to make that happen but he instead doesn't act but calls he wants us to come to him

This is just my thoughts on the matter
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Thanks for sharing
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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ForestGreenCook said:
I did not bring up Rom 1. I was just responding to someone that did bring it up. I question why you would respond in this manner.
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My apologies. I wrote that and thought better of sending it. I didn't erase it and it became part of my next response. I recognize that threads go in many directions.
Can you answer the question I posed?
 
notmyown

notmyown

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Cameron143 said:
That's certainly 1 aspect of it.
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i believe God can have a desire and it doesn't require Him to act on it. the way i understand the focus of your question is just that. but you're right; sentiment confuses the issue.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Cameron143 said:
The word desire is the term used in 1 Timothy 2:4. That's why I keep referring to it.
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1 Timothy 2:
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

That is a beautiful passage. I fail to see how that would cause anyone to be troubled.

Cameron143 said:
I believe this verse is speaking of fellowship with the believer and not salvation.
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Revelation 3:20 certainly is for all men and certainly is about salvation. When a man opens his heart's door to Jesus, Jesus comes in to stay. That's not an opinion. That is a fact.
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

This is part of a letter to a church of the day, but this can be said of the vast majority of NT writings. This is the Gospel of Jesus. It is the same message that is proclaimed in John 3. Jesus desires a personal relationship with every man, women, and child ever born... and yes, that is salvation. That is what He died on the cross to make freely available to all.

notmyown said:
if you mean some receive mercy and some receive justice...
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Mercy is freely available to all and to all who reject it justice shall be applied in it's stead.
 
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