What does "the coming of the Lord" in the NT refer to?
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The passage says that Christ will Him them that sleep in Jesus. How can this happen? The dead in Christ shall rise first and they that are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.
Jesus is bringing them. This is Christ's coming. He can bring us with Him because we will meet Him in the air as He returns.
Jesus is bringing them. This is Christ's coming. He can bring us with Him because we will meet Him in the air as He returns.
kenallen said:
...the bible lays it out Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 1st Corinthians 15, 1st Thessalonians 4, 2nd Thessalonians 2, & Revelation 20...
As a pretribber who believes that there will be a trip to heaven after receiving a glorified body, can you provide any verses that make this very clear?
...the bible lays it out Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 1st Corinthians 15, 1st Thessalonians 4, 2nd Thessalonians 2, & Revelation 20...
As a pretribber who believes that there will be a trip to heaven after receiving a glorified body, can you provide any verses that make this very clear?
GaryA said:
My studies conclude that "in the air" is as far as it goes - no trip to heaven.
No sir. Why would make that conclusion? Since Rev 20:5 makes very clear that the singular resurrection of ALL believers will be at the end of the Tribulation, when Jesus returns as King of kings, to set up His millennial kingdom, NO believer will stay in the air. Like the trib martyrs, they will be serving/co-reigning with Christ during the kingdom.
My studies conclude that "in the air" is as far as it goes - no trip to heaven.
No sir. Why would make that conclusion? Since Rev 20:5 makes very clear that the singular resurrection of ALL believers will be at the end of the Tribulation, when Jesus returns as King of kings, to set up His millennial kingdom, NO believer will stay in the air. Like the trib martyrs, they will be serving/co-reigning with Christ during the kingdom.
GaryA said:
Why will you not believe what they say?
Well, that's kinda odd. You demand two words together to believe. Yet, you believe that there WILL be a trip to heaven after receiving a glorified body, YET, no one has provided a verse that says this.
So, to believe in a pretrib rapture with trip to heaven, there must be mention of this supposed trip to heaven.
Yet, none of the pretribbers can show any verse with a trip to heaven.
It's merely a construct. Not biblical without a verse that mentions a trip to heaven.
How about this: you will not find a single rapture verse that mentions a trip to heaven after being glorified.
Fact.
Why will you not believe what they say?
Well, that's kinda odd. You demand two words together to believe. Yet, you believe that there WILL be a trip to heaven after receiving a glorified body, YET, no one has provided a verse that says this.
So, to believe in a pretrib rapture with trip to heaven, there must be mention of this supposed trip to heaven.
Yet, none of the pretribbers can show any verse with a trip to heaven.
It's merely a construct. Not biblical without a verse that mentions a trip to heaven.
How about this: you will not find a single rapture verse that mentions a trip to heaven after being glorified.
Fact.
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No. All who are resurrected and raptured will stay with the Lord as He returns to earth to destroy the wicked and reign and rule from His throne on earth, In Jerusalem for 1000 years.
The same coming of the Lord by which the Church is resurrected and raptured, is the same coming by which the antichrist is destroyed.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
The Day of the Lord; The Day of Christ
JPT
The same coming of the Lord by which the Church is resurrected and raptured, is the same coming by which the antichrist is destroyed.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
The Day of the Lord; The Day of Christ
JPT
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FreeGrace2 said:
One question left: do you believe all the resurrected and raptured believers are taken up to heaven?
Great!
Great!
The "lawless one" is revealed half way through the Tribulation and will rule earth for 3.5 years. Rev 13
He is also known as the "antichrist".
One question left: do you believe all the resurrected and raptured believers are taken up to heaven?
Great!
Great!
The "lawless one" is revealed half way through the Tribulation and will rule earth for 3.5 years. Rev 13
He is also known as the "antichrist".
O
Consider the following about how the scriptures speak of the dead in Christ and the living in Christ. if both were taken at the same time it would have said " Dead and the Living in Christ shall be caught up together". And in 2 Thess it speaks of the assembly of the living to meet the Lord.
So, what I am saying is there is a span between Dead and Living in Christ such as the dead are raised on Ascension Day and the Living on Pentecost.
So, what I am saying is there is a span between Dead and Living in Christ such as the dead are raised on Ascension Day and the Living on Pentecost.
Jesus has transitioned to his position in Heaven and will not return physically to the earth. God was present everyday with Adam and Eve, but never came to the earth. Jesus has become like YHWH no man can see him and live now. 1 Timothy 6:15 "He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,t 16 the one alone having immortality,u who dwells in "unapproachable light",v whom no man has seen or can see.w ". No human has seen him after he returned to Heaven and his transitioned to the right-hand of God in a higher position than before, Hebrews 1:3, 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22; Acts 7:55-56. In addition, there are two classes or groups spoken of in Revelation (1) those 144,00 who are sealed, Revelation 7:3 and 9:4, Revelation 7:4 (2) those dressed in white robe that came out of the Great Tribulation Revelation 7:9. The first group 144,000 are the ones who will change in a twinkling of an eye and be sent to Heaven. May YHWH open your spiritual mind and you see the Truth. If Adam and Eve had never sinned they would be in Paradise on Earth today with perfect humans. The ones spoken of in white robes (2) inherit the earth due to be restored to a Paradise again, where Adam and Eve would have been today if...