What does this mean: "I have said, Ye are gods..."

[miknik5]

No, it doesn't because 10:22 is another day and discussion from that discussion.

Ohhhh! Okay. Well let’s leave off the remainder for another day

We’ll give people piecemeal when the whole of the context of what generated that declaration was because HE CLAIMED HE WAS THE SHEPHERD AND THE DOOR TO THE SHEEP and some “wise learned teachers” DID NOT BELIEVE

Just a little tidbit of information left out

thats another no-no

 

[bluto]

First of all "CONTEXT" is king and there is a lot of stuff going on in these verses, John 10:29-39. Starting at John 10:29, "My Father who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." Vs31, "The Jews took up stones "AGAIN" to stone Him." My question is why and what is the significance of the word "AGAIN?"

At John 5:17,18 we read, "But He/Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Vs18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, BUT WAS ALSO CALLING GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." (This is what was meant by the "again" at John 10:31.

So getting back to John 10 Jesus says at vs32, "I showed you many good works, from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me? The following is how the Jesus answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for BLASPHEMY; and because You, being a man, make yourself out God." As a side not here is a good piece of advice someone years and years ago taught me on the issue of Jesus claiming to be God. I say this because you will meet people (like unitarians and many others that deny His deity by saying the Jews did not understand what Jesus was saying or they had in for Him all along and are confused at His words etc.

"Whether or not the Jews are correctly or incorrectly understanding Jesus is NOT the issue. The issue is "WHAT WAS IT THAT JESUS SAID that caused the Jews to accuse Him of blasphemy for claiming to be God?" You see in John 5:17,18 as well as here at John 10 Jesus was calling God His own Father. In fact, Jesus said the following to his parents at Luke 2:49, "Why is it you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I HAD TO BE ABOUT MY FATHER'S AFFAIRS." This is also why Jesus Christ according to John 3:16 is the one and only Son of God as in there are no others.

Now, getting back to John 10:34-36 Jesus brings up Psalm 82:6. What Jesus was doing is taking the Jew's statement about Him blaspheming to its logical conclusion to show that they are bein inconsistent. In effect, Jesus is saying, "If you say that I am blaspheming, you must also hold that God is blaspheming because He said to those by whom the word of God came, "ye are gods."

Or to put it another way Jesus was implying that what the Scriptures call humans "ALLEGORICALLY," He was in actuality since He does what onlyh God can do. Jesus was not saying men are gods but that men who were Judges were corrupt Judges and they will die just like the men that they are.

And one more side note for those anti's that say that Jesus was not claiming to be God or they misunderstood Jesus. Just tell them that Jesus is His own commentary because He is the one who brings up the "gods" issue from Psalm 82:6. Another thing you might hear is that at John 10:36 Jesus is not claiming to be God but claiming to be the Son of God." Well if that is true then there would be no need to accuse Jesus of blasphem at John 10:33 because the Jews themselves claim to be the son of God which is not a blasphemy offense. Hope this helps.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Johnny_B]

Firstly, the offspring of a cat will be a cat, the offspring of a human will be human.
Spiritual offsprings of God are gods.
When God was with Moses, He made Moses like a god unto pharoah. He made David like one to the philinstines after he slew Goliath and what kind of normal boy will fight with a bear and a lion and win.
The apostles were even idolized by people that thought they were Zeus and Hermes.
The point is that, the truth is no one born of God is ordinary. The Bible says it in 1 John that we have overcome the world. This means we are supernatural beings not bound by natural laws.
A child of God lying down sick in d hospital believing the doc's report should not be so. When others see walls, we see doors. What others struggle to reach, we reach without stress and the list goes on and on, brother.
This is the Truth.

Okay, if we as being born of God are supernatural and not bound by natural laws, go jump off the side of the grand canyon and see if you are not bound by the law of gravity. Sickness is a result of sin, yes we are forgiven of our sins, but we have not fully expirienced the regeneration, encase you did not know it the promise of being fully healed from sin is part of the blessed hope, our new bodies.

The apostle Paul was the most spiritual born again man in the Bible and he had an eye problem Galatians 4:15 and 6:11 “What then has become of your blessedness? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have gouged out your eyes and given them to me.”

6:11“See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.”

The Galatians own of Paul eye problem to the point if possible they would of given him their eyes and since he had this problem he wrote with large letters because of his eye sight failing him. If Paul was not fully healthy here on earth, how caould anyone think that they are more spiritual then Paul?

 

[miknik5]

First of all "CONTEXT" is king and there is a lot of stuff going on in these verses, John 10:29-39. Starting at John 10:29, "My Father who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." Vs31, "The Jews took up stones "AGAIN" to stone Him." My question is why and what is the significance of the word "AGAIN?"

At John 5:17,18 we read, "But He/Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Vs18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, BUT WAS ALSO CALLING GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." (This is what was meant by the "again" at John 10:31.

So getting back to John 10 Jesus says at vs32, "I showed you many good works, from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me? The following is how the Jesus answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for BLASPHEMY; and because You, being a man, make yourself out God." As a side not here is a good piece of advice someone years and years ago taught me on the issue of Jesus claiming to be God. I say this because you will meet people (like unitarians and many others that deny His deity by saying the Jews did not understand what Jesus was saying or they had in for Him all along and are confused at His words etc.

"Whether or not the Jews are correctly or incorrectly understanding Jesus is NOT the issue. The issue is "WHAT WAS IT THAT JESUS SAID that caused the Jews to accuse Him of blasphemy for claiming to be God?" You see in John 5:17,18 as well as here at John 10 Jesus was calling God His own Father. In fact, Jesus said the following to his parents at Luke 2:49, "Why is it you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I HAD TO BE ABOUT MY FATHER'S AFFAIRS." This is also why Jesus Christ according to John 3:16 is the one and only Son of God as in there are no others.

Now, getting back to John 10:34-36 Jesus brings up Psalm 82:6. What Jesus was doing is taking the Jew's statement about Him blaspheming to its logical conclusion to show that they are bein inconsistent. In effect, Jesus is saying, "If you say that I am blaspheming, you must also hold that God is blaspheming because He said to those by whom the word of God came, "ye are gods."

Or to put it another way Jesus was implying that what the Scriptures call humans "ALLEGORICALLY," He was in actuality since He does what onlyh God can do. Jesus was not saying men are gods but that men who were Judges were corrupt Judges and they will die just like the men that they are.

And one more side note for those anti's that say that Jesus was not claiming to be God or they misunderstood Jesus. Just tell them that Jesus is His own commentary because He is the one who brings up the "gods" issue from Psalm 82:6. Another thing you might hear is that at John 10:36 Jesus is not claiming to be God but claiming to be the Son of God." Well if that is true then there would be no need to accuse Jesus of blasphem at John 10:33 because the Jews themselves claim to be the son of God which is not a blasphemy offense. Hope this helps.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

WOW! I’d say that helps quite a bit!!!

 

[oldhermit]

By oldhermit

YE ARE GODS


John 10:34
“The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

This is a criminal charge. They knew who the Shepherd of Israel was and just who Jesus was claiming to be. Their response was to pick up stone to stone him for blasphemy, “You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Although Jesus never said in his illustration “I am God” they immediately and correctly made the connection. Now, if Jesus is not God, then they not only had a right to stone him to death for blasphemy, they had an obligation to do so. If on the other hand, Jesus is God as he represented in the illustration then the people were wrong for wanting to stone him.

Jesus offers two arguments for defense against the charge of blasphemy to show the foolishness of their charge, 34-39.
1.The technical argument from the evidence of scripture
“Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said, I am the Son of God?”

The passage to which Jesus refers is Psalms 82:6.
“God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers. How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Vindicate the weak and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, “You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High. “Nevertheless you will die like men and fall like any one of the princes.” Arise, O God, judge the earth! For it is You who possesses all the nations."

The first thing that needs to be understood is who God was speaking to in Psalms 82. He was not speaking to all men. In fact, he was not even speaking to all of those of Israel. He was speaking to those who were appointed as judges over the people "YOU are gods." So, this declaration is very limited in its scope. Calling them gods is related not to their intrinsic nature but to their appointed function as those who were responsible for giving the Law of God to the people. In the very next verse God reminds them of their intrinsic nature, “you will die like mere mortals.” These 'gods' were those who sat in the seat of Moses to whom God said, “See, I make you as God to Pharaoh.” Like Moses before Pharaoh, these judges stood before the people as gods to the people. As such, their function was to “defend the weak and the fatherless, uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed,” to “rescue the weak and the needy,” and “deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” They had abandoned this appointed function and had defended the unjust and shown partiality to the wicked. Of them God says, “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness.” All of these charges are contrary to the intrinsic nature of God. Since God cannot defy his own nature we know that the term gods then defines not their nature but their function. For this reason, God says he will render judgment among these gods, verse one.

In John 10 we find Jesus being accused of blasphemy “because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” The Jews understood the implication of Jesus statement. When they threatened Jesus with stoning, Jesus reminded them of the 82 Psalm which says ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ Apparently they had properly understood the Psalm and did not equate being called gods as a declaration of man's equality with God. They knew to whom this Psalm was directed. “He called them gods, to whom the word of God came.” They knew this was talking about those who were charged with giving the Law of God to the people. Yet, now, Jesus is himself “sanctified and sent into the world” by the Father to impart the word of God again to the people. This is the exact same function that was given to the judges yet, when Jesus calls himself the Son of God they want to stone him for it. Jesus is simply pointing out the lunacy of their reasoning.

2. The pragmatic argument form the evidence of his works
Ellicott makes a good point that “Whether He is a blasphemer or not depends upon whether He represents God or not, and to prove this He appeals again to (His) works.”

“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the- Father.” “Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.”

a. Even if they took issue with his words, they were still confronted with the reality of the miracles. There is no way to account for the miracles except to attribute them to the power of God. His works prove who he is. These two lines of argumentation served only to infuriate them further and they again attempted to arrest him.
b. We know not the manner in which Jesus eluded the grasp nor can this be determined by the force of the language. We do not know whether this was accomplished through extraordinary means or if he simply hid himself in the crowd and fled the temple. We simply are not told.

 

[breno785au]

ye are god’s to WHOM THE WORD OF GOD HAS COME

Not all have received THE TRUTH and therefore do not have eternal life

He who has the SON has life

not all believe

Yeahhh, but I'm specifically looking at what that word 'god' is translated from to see why that specific word was used.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Spiritual offsprings of God are gods.

No they are not. They are simply children of God.

The Hebrew word elohim essential means "mighty ones". Depending on the context it is applied to (1) the one true living God, (2) superhuman beings and (3) human beings with great authority i.e. rulers and judges (as in this discussion).

Brown-Driver-Briggs
a.rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power: האלהיםExodus 21:6 (Onk ᵑ6, but τὸ κριτήριον τοῦ Θεοῦᵐ5) Exodus 22:7; Exodus 22:8;

 

[miknik5]

I hate to mention Ezekiel 34 to the super human beings and the beings with supposed authority

but.....Ezekiel 34

 

[Enoch987]

Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One. This Hebrew word for One allows for two. The plural Elohim requires 3 or more. People groups also have the -im ending for plural. Therefore the Holy Spirit is the 3rd if the Holy Spirit is a person. However second Corinthians compares the Holy Spirit to the spirit of a man. Only the spirit of a man can know what a man thinks. Only the Spirit can know what God thinks.
Bluto makes a mistake by quoting John 3:16 as the one and only Son. Some bibles do say that. The original meaning is in John 1:14, Jesus is the only begotten Son. begotten means He took on flesh to dwell among us. Jesus is the only Son who was begotten. He is our champion.
The Jews could not fathom that the Father had a Son who was coCreator. Since Jesus said that He was the Son, the Jews believed that Jesus was saying that He was equal to the Father. Jesus continues in John 5 to explain what conditions need to be met before He is equal to the Father (it's when they sit on the same throne in the New Jerusalem). My Father sent me. The Sender is greater than the Sent. The Father is greater than I.
When Jesus washed the disciples feet, He told them, I send you. I am greater than you.
The princes in Daniel. Jesus is the Prince of princes (Daniel 8). the prince of Persia and the prince of Israel (Michael) are also sons. since princes are sons of the King, The Majesty is God the Father. -Hebrews 1:3.
I lean towards agreeing with Breno. oldhermit has been helpful to explain other scriptures to me.

 

[Johnny_B]

What N6 posted is a great brake down of what it means.

 

[Enoch987]

I hate to mention Ezekiel 34 to the super human beings and the beings with supposed authority

but.....Ezekiel 34

so your point is the gods of John 10 are the shepherds who don't take care of the flock of Ez. 34 while Jesus is the Good Shepherd of Ez. 34

 

[miknik5]

Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One. This Hebrew word for One allows for two. The plural Elohim requires 3 or more. People groups also have the -im ending for plural. Therefore the Holy Spirit is the 3rd if the Holy Spirit is a person. However second Corinthians compares the Holy Spirit to the spirit of a man. Only the spirit of a man can know what a man thinks. Only the Spirit can know what God thinks.
Bluto makes a mistake by quoting John 3:16 as the one and only Son. Some bibles do say that. The original meaning is in John 1:14, Jesus is the only begotten Son. begotten means He took on flesh to dwell among us. Jesus is the only Son who was begotten. He is our champion.
The Jews could not fathom that the Father had a Son who was coCreator. Since Jesus said that He was the Son, the Jews believed that Jesus was saying that He was equal to the Father. Jesus continues in John 5 to explain what conditions need to be met before He is equal to the Father (it's when they sit on the same throne in the New Jerusalem). My Father sent me. The Sender is greater than the Sent. The Father is greater than I.
When Jesus washed the disciples feet, He told them, I send you. I am greater than you.
The princes in Daniel. Jesus is the Prince of princes (Daniel 8). the prince of Persia and the prince of Israel (Michael) are also sons. since princes are sons of the King, The Majesty is God the Father. -Hebrews 1:3.
I lean towards agreeing with Breno. oldhermit has been helpful to explain other scriptures to me.

Is JESUS THE ONE and ONLY SON?
by whose SPIRIT would you say THE SON of GOD did all that HE did?
and would you say Jesus had His spirit separate from the FATHER’s?

when Jesus said HE would send another comforter and I will not leave you as orphans, who was HE talking about?

His spirit or His fathers

if indeed they were separate from one another


but they weren’t

which is why Jesus could say all that is the fathers is mine
I will take from what is mine and give to you

 

[miknik5]

There aren’t two HOLY SPIRITS
The father and the son are One


it isn’t the same thing for us
we may be sons of the light but it is through our faith in the one who is THE LIGHT and it is through faith in HIM that we are born again and are quickened by HIS life-giving SPIRIT

We didn’t come forth from GOD and into the world
we didn’t come down from heaven

only HE did

 

[miknik5]

so your point is the gods of John 10 are the shepherds who don't take care of the flock of Ez. 34 while Jesus is the Good Shepherd of Ez. 34

Nope. My point is that those who profess themselves as something don’t know as they should know
they aren’t “god’s” and those who belong to the kingdom will testify to ONE TRUTH

THE ONE AND ONLY SON OF GOD

nothing more than HIM
And nothing less than HIM

Those fat and filled sheep has better make sure that they are feeding the babies trailing behind them TRUE FOOD that feeds

 

[Johnny_B]

Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One. This Hebrew word for One allows for two. The plural Elohim requires 3 or more. People groups also have the -im ending for plural. Therefore the Holy Spirit is the 3rd if the Holy Spirit is a person. However second Corinthians compares the Holy Spirit to the spirit of a man. Only the spirit of a man can know what a man thinks. Only the Spirit can know what God thinks.
Bluto makes a mistake by quoting John 3:16 as the one and only Son. Some bibles do say that. The original meaning is in John 1:14, Jesus is the only begotten Son. begotten means He took on flesh to dwell among us. Jesus is the only Son who was begotten. He is our champion.
The Jews could not fathom that the Father had a Son who was coCreator. Since Jesus said that He was the Son, the Jews believed that Jesus was saying that He was equal to the Father. Jesus continues in John 5 to explain what conditions need to be met before He is equal to the Father (it's when they sit on the same throne in the New Jerusalem). My Father sent me. The Sender is greater than the Sent. The Father is greater than I.
When Jesus washed the disciples feet, He told them, I send you. I am greater than you.
The princes in Daniel. Jesus is the Prince of princes (Daniel 8). the prince of Persia and the prince of Israel (Michael) are also sons. since princes are sons of the King, The Majesty is God the Father. -Hebrews 1:3.
I lean towards agreeing with Breno. oldhermit has been helpful to explain other scriptures to me.

You are not saying that the Majesty is the Father's only are you" Because that verse is saying that Jesus shares that Majesty and the next verses show that as well in the Father calling Jesus God and Lord.

Hebrews 1:8 and 10 “But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

The Father is not greater then the Son, when it come their nature as God.

 

[miknik5]

What confusion

The Father and the Son are One
amd he who has the Son has the Father also

the same thing can not be said of those who profess to have god(s) but deny the Son

 

[bluto]

Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One. This Hebrew word for One allows for two. The plural Elohim requires 3 or more. People groups also have the -im ending for plural. Therefore the Holy Spirit is the 3rd if the Holy Spirit is a person. However second Corinthians compares the Holy Spirit to the spirit of a man. Only the spirit of a man can know what a man thinks. Only the Spirit can know what God thinks.
Bluto makes a mistake by quoting John 3:16 as the one and only Son. Some bibles do say that. The original meaning is in John 1:14, Jesus is the only begotten Son. begotten means He took on flesh to dwell among us. Jesus is the only Son who was begotten. He is our champion.
The Jews could not fathom that the Father had a Son who was coCreator. Since Jesus said that He was the Son, the Jews believed that Jesus was saying that He was equal to the Father. Jesus continues in John 5 to explain what conditions need to be met before He is equal to the Father (it's when they sit on the same throne in the New Jerusalem). My Father sent me. The Sender is greater than the Sent. The Father is greater than I.
When Jesus washed the disciples feet, He told them, I send you. I am greater than you.
The princes in Daniel. Jesus is the Prince of princes (Daniel 8). the prince of Persia and the prince of Israel (Michael) are also sons. since princes are sons of the King, The Majesty is God the Father. -Hebrews 1:3.
I lean towards agreeing with Breno. oldhermit has been helpful to explain other scriptures to me.

No enoch, bluto does not make mistakes, especially on this issue. Before I address you post could you please use PARAGRAPHS in you post instead of us reading ONE continuous sentence. Thank you, I hope.

Now, you said this: "Some bibles do say that. The original meaning is in John 1:14, Jesus is the only begotten Son. begotten means He took on flesh to dwell among us. Jesus is the only Son who was begotten. He is our champion." When the Apostle John wrote John 3:16 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit what do you think he/John had in mind? What was the point John was trying to impress upon the reader?

So enoch, can you please tell me what the Greek word "monogenes/begotten" in English means? You stated above it means "He took on flesh" and then you quoted John 1:14. What is the second meaning of "mongenes" and how is it used in Scripture, please give me an example or two.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Ezekiel8]

Well, it means what it says I suppose.

You are gods, sons of the Most High. That's what the Psalmist says, that's what Jesus says. Good enough for me, praise the Mighty God the Father.

 

[miknik5]

Firstly, the offspring of a cat will be a cat, the offspring of a human will be human.
Spiritual offsprings of God are gods.
When God was with Moses, He made Moses like a god unto pharoah. He made David like one to the philinstines after he slew Goliath and what kind of normal boy will fight with a bear and a lion and win.
The apostles were even idolized by people that thought they were Zeus and Hermes.
The point is that, the truth is no one born of God is ordinary. The Bible says it in 1 John that we have overcome the world. This means we are supernatural beings not bound by natural laws.
A child of God lying down sick in d hospital believing the doc's report should not be so. When others see walls, we see doors. What others struggle to reach, we reach without stress and the list goes on and on, brother.
This is the Truth.

I think you need to reread 1 John 5
who is it who has overcome the world?
and by what have we overcome the world?

another thjng

HE told us that in this world we would have trouble but to take heart because HE has overcome for us


this is even our faith
directed in and on HIM

This is the Truth.

 

[miknik5]

Well, it means what it says I suppose.

You are gods, sons of the Most High. That's what the Psalmist says, that's what Jesus says. Good enough for me, praise the Mighty God the Father.

Ye are god’s to whom the word of GOD has come