What God Uses Tongues For

[PS]

There is indeed such an influence within Pentecostalism. There are many influences within Pentecostalism that are unbiblical. Absolutely correct. Just like there are many influences within the Southern Baptist, Christian, Lutheran, and other mainstream denominations. But all the false prophets and teachers of these denominations do not make their original teachings unbiblical or false. Yet, some people press this issue to say exactly that. If Pentecostalism is to be proven false because of its influences within it, then so are all denominations false for the same reason. It's either for everybody or nobody. My best advice to those against Pentecostalism for those reasons is to tell them to sweep around their own back door. You will never hear such people say any such things against their own denomination. To them, that would be blasphemy. What is it then, when they say it against other denominations? They can't have it both ways! What? My denomination is wrong because of it, yet their's is right? That's a double standard, in every sense of the meaning.

Not many weeks ago my granddaughter was cross-country running and I went along to support her. A couple of days later I had a dental appointment and unbeknown to me I left a trail of dried dirt from off my shoes wherever I walked. Well a few days later I was telling a friend about this and he gave me a really good telling off, I was quite surprised at his attitude especially considering what he was like. What I did was quite trivial and secondly it was unintentional. He on the other hand had committed numerous criminal offences and had been in and out of prison like a yo-yo for breaking and entering and causing riots. As a child of three he threw a small grate through a butchers plate glass window, he thought it hugely funny and has done similar things throughout his life, he laughs his head off when he tells me and he thinks it is a huge joke. Needless to say I am not amused although have never said so, except to ask him what is so funny.

The reason I am telling this is to demonstrate his hypocrisy and it is true what Stephen said, people never see their own faults, but they are quick to point them out in others. The Bible is so true, we may have a plank of wood in our eye while our neighbour might only have a speck of dust in theirs and I feel it is so important to recognise our own error instead of defending it when all around are people who are patiently showing and explaining from scripture the error that some on here follow, especially when all they are wanting to do is to try and help.

I say this because we need to glorify God and bring honour and glory to his name and pursuing error only brings dishonour to the Lord. I hope I have raised a smile and not offended anyone, I'm a pentecostal and the first thing I did in this thread was to admit the errors in some pentecostal churches and I hope and pray that others will do the same where they are concerned. May the Lord bless.

 

[zone]

oh PS and Stephen please.
everybody had fun blasting reformed and Calvin and whatever else.

Pentecostalism is just wrong in nearly everything - theology and practices.
let's start a thread on it.

continuationism is absurd and everything in pentecostal theology is attached to it.

i'm open for a thread on it...if anyone wants to.

 

[Stephen63]

oh PS and Stephen please.
everybody had fun blasting reformed and Calvin and whatever else.

Pentecostalism is just wrong in nearly everything - theology and practices.
let's start a thread on it.

continuationism is absurd and everything in pentecostal theology is attached to it.

i'm open for a thread on it...if anyone wants to.

If you're gonna start a new thread, do one on Lutherans, and let everybody else rest!

 

[jimmydiggs]

If you're gonna start a new thread, do one on Lutherans, and let everybody else rest!

As long as we get to have threads on the errors of run-a-way-freight-train-pentecostalism.

 

[zone]

If you're gonna start a new thread, do one on Lutherans, and let everybody else rest!

okay....rest away stephen.
bye

 

[my_adonai_]

Every scripture in the word of God is profitable per revelation from the HOLY SPIRIT. sometimes we hurry up when listening to GOD, not taking the patience required that the LORD may teach us the WHOLE TRUTH about in this particular topic ""SPEAKING IN TONGUES"", and i tell you this gift satan is fighting A LOT, because HE knows HE is at a BIGGG disadvantage here since he cant hear anything.
i have spoken in tongues many many times, and as the word said, its for edification, and many many. as the word also says in Romans 8:26-28, says that the Spirit of The Lord interecesses for us in our infirmities and HE that SEARCHETH the reins of the heart (ONLY THE FATHER does this), knows what THE SPIRIT of GOD intercesses for the children of GOD.
maybe the very root Here is that we must understand that the very Function, part of the SPIRIT OF THE LORD in our Personal lives. and that HE is a separate person in the trinity but TOGETHER with the Son and FATHER work for ONE PURPOSE.

 

[kenisyes]

oh PS and Stephen please.
everybody had fun blasting reformed and Calvin and whatever else.

Pentecostalism is just wrong in nearly everything - theology and practices.
let's start a thread on it.

continuationism is absurd and everything in pentecostal theology is attached to it.

i'm open for a thread on it...if anyone wants to.

Or we could just go back and copy the posts from the ones we did a couple months ago.

 

[Enow]

One more time, and I'm probably going to give up trying to get you to hear what I am saying. The verse tells us that the Holy Spirit in our spirit causes our spirit to pray according to God's revelation as to what He wants us to pray for.

No. That is hardly what Romans 8:26-27 is saying at all.

It testified of intercessions made by the Holy Spirit in an indirect manner which is the point of verse 27 as the Son knows the mind of the Spirit because the Son is the only Mediator between God and man. Now if the Son knows the mind of the Spirit, then there is no need for a direct intercession by the Spirit which is keeping in line with the scripture that:

A: The Spirit cannot speak of Himself, whatever He hears.. that He speaks. That means He will not speak conveying a message from Himself, but whatever He hears, that He speaks. John 16:13

B: Only a thief is inbetween us and the Son: John 10:7-9

C: Jesus is called the Bridegroom because the Son is the only way how we can relate to God the Father. John 14:6-7

These prayers sometimes cannot be expressed in human language. This is the origin of some of the modern tongues. The ability to search hearts is the ability to know what the spirit (your spirit, the one praying) means, and is the source of interpretation. Tongues is to groanings as interpretation is to discernment of what the spirit means.

Silent: revelation and understanding (private)
Social:
Non-syllabic: groanings and searching of hearts
Syllabic: tongues and interpretation
Verbal: prayer and amens
Action: ministry commitment and world change

So you have God not being an original and copycatting after Satan with his supernatural tongues and yet believers are called to abstain from all appearances of evil?

These discussions are words to you, playing with Scripture. They are reality to me. Most of what you are saying is like an aeronautical engineer trying to convince a bumble bee that he is built wrong to fly. Again, I can only assume, you've been stung too often, and wish the bumble bee would believe you.

I believe because of modern Bibles errors, that you are using experience to gloss over the actual meaning of His words. There are scriptures in the modern Bibles that should still give you pause by showing how they are opposing each other like... proving all things and abstaining from all appearances of evil. Using God's gift of tongues as a prayer language is not abstaining from all appearances of evil, but evidence of believing every spirit and every tongue as being of God, because the world can fit right into and identify with the group with their tongues which they had received when seeking after familiar spirits.

Jesus, the One that died for you, is calling you to a personal relationship with the Father through Him only. John 10:1 There can be no other way in relating to God the Father by.

Again, the Bridegroom is calling you to come to Him by shunning vain & profane babblings ( 2 Timothy 2:16) which is a snare of the devil ( 2 Timothy 2:26) because it is cutting inbetween you & the Son which the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do, but only a thief would do that. John 10:7-9

 

[Enow]

We need to go back to the beginning to this opening thread. This statement is completely inaccurate. When looking at the context, and reading it as it is, it is clearly stating Paul's point that speaking or praying in tongues is incomplete without proper interpretation. He states simply that the person speaking should pray that he may interpret. Nothing more. Proper interpretation of Scripture is to first accept what is written literally as it is in its literal sense. When we do this, we see Paul teaching the people to do this correctly for their own understanding and edification. There are no extreme meanings here to twist out of it.

Paul stated what tongues were.. God speaking unto the people as they were of other men's lips.. nothing more.

Reading experiences into the other verses in that chapter while ignoring that bottomline declaration by Paul is not wise.

Therefore when Paul said praying in tongues, he was praying that someone woud interpret the tongue as it was his spirit that was praying while he was speaking in tongues as manifested by the Spirit to do.

So in the literal sense, readers should know that God's gift of tongues is not a prayer language at all.

 

[Enow]

The reason why so many has trouble with the tongues issue is because of abuse, and misuse.
Most folks would not be afraid of it if everyone prayed like Paul said to interpret it properly, making this gift equal with prophecy. Sure, the crazies abuse it. The ignorant and unlearned misuse it. But in its proper place, it has its proper purpose. If Christians would go on unto perfection and maturity like the Scriptures say, this would not be a problem. One who is in tune with the signs of the times can understand why the gifts aren't being properly used. If the Apostle Paul had such trouble with the Corinthian church and its ignorance of these gifts, shouldn't we expect the modern church to do the same?

But you already disagree with where the Holy Spirit will not dwell as you had testified that He can be felt in the worship place as well which practically removes the line of discernment in testing the spirits.

Now mediums conjure up spirits as voodooists & wizards seek after familiar spirits and wind up speaking in a supernatural tonge which is babbling nonsense.

How can God expect believers to abstain from all appearances of evil if God is not?

God is reconciling the world away from their spirits and their tongues to a personal relationship with the Father through the Son, the Bridegroom. John 14:6-7

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Only the spirit of error as in the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world, would come inbetween us and the Son in relating to God the Father. John 10:7-9 1 John 4:3-4

John 10:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door:

1 John 4: [SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[Enow]

Paul said everything had to be done in order with an interpretation and he was quite right. If there is no interpreter present then Paul said to remain silent.

In my opinion things went wrong at the Toronto Blessing and I think that was the devils work, but that is only my opinion. I went to one of those meetings in Doncaster and never again. People were falling over and someone was barking like a dog, there was no order and it was like nothing I have ever seen before in my entire life and I was brought up in a Pentecostal Church.

But that is the thing: do they not call on the Holy Spirit? Do they not focus on the Holy Spirit? Does the movement project the idea that one has to go to a place to be where the movement of the "Spirit" is?

Does not Pentcostalism share such rudiments for which these signs that you "think" are not of Him has occurred? What about the signs that occur that you think were of Him but yet by the same rudiments by which those other signs you think were not of Him? Why would God allow strong delusion to occur in one incident and yet not another? Does that not give pause that mayhap, those signs which you had believed were of Him, may not actually be of Him either? ( I speak of tongues without interpretation that is being used as a prayer language: not His actual gift of tongues of other men's lips ).

It all goes back to the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ as being the Bridegroom: not the Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit will always point to the Son: seducing spirits and the spirits of the antichrist which is in the world would point to themselves. It doesn't matter if they give a few honourable mention of the Son, the spotlight is on the spirits and their signs & wonders they bring with their visitations to seek after them in the worship place, thus misleading believers into becoming an adulterous generation for seeking after the "Spirit" for a sign when their eyes should be on the Bridegroom.

The way to relating to God the Father is really that narrow so that we may avoid false spirits as well as false prophets.

 

[Enow]

There is indeed such an influence within Pentecostalism. There are many influences within Pentecostalism that are unbiblical. Absolutely correct. Just like there are many influences within the Southern Baptist, Christian, Lutheran, and other mainstream denominations. But all the false prophets and teachers of these denominations do not make their original teachings unbiblical or false. Yet, some people press this issue to say exactly that. If Pentecostalism is to be proven false because of its influences within it, then so are all denominations false for the same reason. It's either for everybody or nobody. My best advice to those against Pentecostalism for those reasons is to tell them to sweep around their own back door. You will never hear such people say any such things against their own denomination. To them, that would be blasphemy. What is it then, when they say it against other denominations? They can't have it both ways! What? My denomination is wrong because of it, yet their's is right? That's a double standard, in every sense of the meaning.

Believers may err and follow the crowd, but God doesn't err nor does He follow the crowd.

God would not manifest tongues when false teachings are being promoted that denies the faith in Him by that sign of tongues.

Nor does God have a double standard.

We are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil. God cannot expect us to do that nor sinners to repent of supernatural tongues of gibberish if He uses His gift in the same manner... which means.. He does not.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Brethren, pray for us.

 

[ob77]

For those that hear & for the little ones that He may prune to bear more fruit:

This is what God said He will be using tongues for:

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

God uses tongues to speak unto the people: not back to Himself in prayer.

The contentions raised are the misunderstanding of the other verses in that chapter about tongues. Keep that bottomline truth from those verses above to lean on Christ to discern what Paul meant in that chapter about tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Believers misuse verse 14 as a validation for praying in tongues, but they should read verse 13 to understand the point Paul was making in verse 14 & 15. Verse 13 sets the precedent for understanding verses 14 and thus in line with verse 15 for Paul's point.

Paul's point in verse 14 was that "while" Paul spoke in tongues, Paul was praying for the understanding, hoping God will raise someone to intepret what he was saying in tongues so that he may understand also and be edified and thus fruitful to him as well.

Paul was not talking about the Spirit praying in tongues when he testified in verse 14 that it was his spirit as in "my spirit" that was praying, and Paul's spirit was praying while he was speaking in tongues that someone may interpret.

That's keeping in line with what God said that tongues were for and that was for speaking unto the people.
[/QUOTE
Is it not odd then, that English, was the language used to convey the word of God ?

 

[parablepete]

Bottom Line....Tongues is a Forgin Language. Some religions are built on it, the Lords is not.