What if you die before water baptism?
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They can go anywhere for water, doesnt have to be IN a church. A stream, a shower, a bath, a lagoon..a puddle! God will make a way. I know people who are baptised in rest homes, and those who were near death going to streams. Even the sea and lakes has been used for mass baptisms, not everyone has their own private spa pool like those middle class churches have.
The other thing I thought about is people seem to insist the repentant thief was on the cross was not ever baptised but how do they know. Jesus was water baptised himself, so he could have been part of the many that were baptised in the river Jordan. Serving out his sentence on the cross doesnt mean he couldnt have been.
I guess a whole denomination (Baptists) must be wrong then, to insist people believe and be baptised.
The whole thing with infants though seems to be done when there was a high mortality rate and parents were worried. Though babies ARE usually washed by their parents or nurses after they are born.
If people are worried they just need to be clear to new believers what a new birth means. God makes it clear by instructing that we do it, otherwise, He wouldnt be telling his disciples to go and baptise others. When you plant a seed, you dont just expect it to grow without giving it any water right?
The other thing I thought about is people seem to insist the repentant thief was on the cross was not ever baptised but how do they know. Jesus was water baptised himself, so he could have been part of the many that were baptised in the river Jordan. Serving out his sentence on the cross doesnt mean he couldnt have been.
I guess a whole denomination (Baptists) must be wrong then, to insist people believe and be baptised.
The whole thing with infants though seems to be done when there was a high mortality rate and parents were worried. Though babies ARE usually washed by their parents or nurses after they are born.
If people are worried they just need to be clear to new believers what a new birth means. God makes it clear by instructing that we do it, otherwise, He wouldnt be telling his disciples to go and baptise others. When you plant a seed, you dont just expect it to grow without giving it any water right?
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I believe every word of this interpretation but could you tell me if there is any fault in it @Pilgrimshope I'm interested to know
Yeah Jesus has the authority of all judgement lol I don’t think you had to ever tell me that it in the gospel
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”
John 5:22-23 KJV
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”
John 5:22-23 KJV
I’ve told you several times who my judge is you are the one apparently thinking you are some form of intercessor who has the authority to forgive sins on the behalf of God
I have my own account for my own actions and words if people forgive me in life I’m glad and thankful to them but I also understand that I have one judge and so does every other human being in creation you and I no one else is anyone’s judge we are taught to forgive because of we dont forgive he won’t forgive us
So you know I don’t disagree Christian’s need to learn not hold grudges and to forgive others , they also shouldn’t believe themselves some sort of intercessor who has Gods annointing to forgive sinners on his behalf
at least that’s my own thought I could be just a commoner and others are some sort of agent of the lord too ….. I do t know really man if God called you to forgive sins you should is all I can really say I know I believe I need to always forgive others and so I try my very best to do that but …..it’s all based on what Jesus said about forgiving people and why
airs not because I think injabe some authority like the apostles or something
I have my own account for my own actions and words if people forgive me in life I’m glad and thankful to them but I also understand that I have one judge and so does every other human being in creation you and I no one else is anyone’s judge we are taught to forgive because of we dont forgive he won’t forgive us
So you know I don’t disagree Christian’s need to learn not hold grudges and to forgive others , they also shouldn’t believe themselves some sort of intercessor who has Gods annointing to forgive sinners on his behalf
at least that’s my own thought I could be just a commoner and others are some sort of agent of the lord too ….. I do t know really man if God called you to forgive sins you should is all I can really say I know I believe I need to always forgive others and so I try my very best to do that but …..it’s all based on what Jesus said about forgiving people and why
airs not because I think injabe some authority like the apostles or something
Which means Jesus has come to bring a sword first
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
a sword divides people into two groups, the sword comes out of his mouth it’s his word…..
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
a sword divides people into two groups, the sword comes out of his mouth it’s his word…..
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you know the Irish can come across as being really sarcastic, but no when they mean something they mean it.
Ok lets see what your interpretation is to this
Luke 12:13-14
New International Version
The Parable of the Rich Fool
13 Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?”
Ok lets see what your interpretation is to this
Luke 12:13-14
New International Version
The Parable of the Rich Fool
13 Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?”
I do ,
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ……Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:22, 24
I just don’t reject it and look elsewhere because I understand who the judge is and what his words are
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
Acts 10:42 KJV
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
Acts 17:30-31 KJV
i also understand not even to judge my own soul it’s not my place it’s his
“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:9-12 KJV
I don’t have to give an account for you or what you’ve done it isnt my place or authority everyone of us has to give an account of our own lives our own words but not the other people actions and words that’s between them and the lord
of they want to be forgiven they don’t come to me or you lol they have to go to Jesus and accept his stoning sacrifice that was given because he loves them and wants to save thier everlasting soul …. like you did and like I did and like everyone else does
Our role is to share the same message that convinced us that Jesus is the truth
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ……Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:22, 24
I just don’t reject it and look elsewhere because I understand who the judge is and what his words are
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
Acts 10:42 KJV
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
Acts 17:30-31 KJV
i also understand not even to judge my own soul it’s not my place it’s his
“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:9-12 KJV
I don’t have to give an account for you or what you’ve done it isnt my place or authority everyone of us has to give an account of our own lives our own words but not the other people actions and words that’s between them and the lord
of they want to be forgiven they don’t come to me or you lol they have to go to Jesus and accept his stoning sacrifice that was given because he loves them and wants to save thier everlasting soul …. like you did and like I did and like everyone else does
Our role is to share the same message that convinced us that Jesus is the truth
Hey brother. Interesting dialog here, and I think you've summed it up quite well with this verse as it relates to the context of this forum.
Baptism is an important part of our Christian lives. Whether one gets sprinkled, poured, or dunked is a secondary matter although I do think immersion is the best form of baptism because it captures the essence of this sacrament--the old man goes into the grave (i.e. dunked in the water) and emerges/rises as a new creation in Jesus Christ.
My grandma somewhat believed in Jesus, went through multiple baptisms throughout her childhood/teenage years, but she was an agnostic up until her last breath that I witnessed in the hospital room. Do I believe she will be tossed in the lake of fire because of that? Not at all--I'm probably the one who will greet her during the resurrection to finally get her beliefs in order and accept Jesus as her Lord and Savior!
More to come later--off to that four letter word: WORK.
Baptism is an important part of our Christian lives. Whether one gets sprinkled, poured, or dunked is a secondary matter although I do think immersion is the best form of baptism because it captures the essence of this sacrament--the old man goes into the grave (i.e. dunked in the water) and emerges/rises as a new creation in Jesus Christ.
My grandma somewhat believed in Jesus, went through multiple baptisms throughout her childhood/teenage years, but she was an agnostic up until her last breath that I witnessed in the hospital room. Do I believe she will be tossed in the lake of fire because of that? Not at all--I'm probably the one who will greet her during the resurrection to finally get her beliefs in order and accept Jesus as her Lord and Savior!
More to come later--off to that four letter word: WORK.
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Jesus has not come to judge the world yet.
Jesus has left his sword first.
Luke 12:13-14
New International Version
The Parable of the Rich Fool
13 Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?”
Now interpret this 😊
Jesus has left his sword first.
Luke 12:13-14
New International Version
The Parable of the Rich Fool
13 Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?”
Now interpret this 😊
Hey brother. Interesting dialog here, and I think you've summed it up quite well with this verse as it relates to the context of this forum.
Baptism is an important part of our Christian lives. Whether one gets sprinkled, poured, or dunked is a secondary matter although I do think immersion is the best form of baptism because it captures the essence of this sacrament--the old man goes into the grave (i.e. dunked in the water) and emerges/rises as a new creation in Jesus Christ.
My grandma somewhat believed in Jesus, went through multiple baptisms throughout her childhood/teenage years, but she was an agnostic up until her last breath that I witnessed in the hospital room. Do I believe she will be tossed in the lake of fire because of that? Not at all--I'm probably the one who will greet her during the resurrection to finally get her beliefs in order and accept Jesus as her Lord and Savior!
More to come later--off to that four letter word: WORK.
Baptism is an important part of our Christian lives. Whether one gets sprinkled, poured, or dunked is a secondary matter although I do think immersion is the best form of baptism because it captures the essence of this sacrament--the old man goes into the grave (i.e. dunked in the water) and emerges/rises as a new creation in Jesus Christ.
My grandma somewhat believed in Jesus, went through multiple baptisms throughout her childhood/teenage years, but she was an agnostic up until her last breath that I witnessed in the hospital room. Do I believe she will be tossed in the lake of fire because of that? Not at all--I'm probably the one who will greet her during the resurrection to finally get her beliefs in order and accept Jesus as her Lord and Savior!
More to come later--off to that four letter word: WORK.
the question has never been and should never be “ do we really need to get baptized to be saved ?”
thats tantamount to what happened in Eden and broke thier faith and caused the whole sin and death issue to begin with
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
they should have believed Gods word about it and been settled ..but they were listening to the voice questioning it and offering an alternative belief
“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
( look at how it affects her mind and perception of the fruit )
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, ( God said it was certain death to eat of it ) and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, ( they were already made in Gods image )
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:1, 4-6
Same thing happens with baptism or communion upon or really anything he taught us to act upon . when we reject what Jesus said and start questioning it and grab onto the other things we hear we’re losing faith
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
But …..”did God really say to believe the gospel and be baptized ? Listen to me instead ……”
faith is when we hear and believe him if we do it’s going to move us to action because of what he’s saying
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“Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
John 12:31-33
“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
Mark 13:31 KJV
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
John 12:48 KJV
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
That’s our judgement the eternal words of Jesus Christ the judge and savior of all mankind the same word he sent into all the world for either salvation or damnation
It will stand forever
“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. …..But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
1 Peter 1:22-23, 25 KJV
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
John 12:31-33
“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
Mark 13:31 KJV
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
John 12:48 KJV
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
That’s our judgement the eternal words of Jesus Christ the judge and savior of all mankind the same word he sent into all the world for either salvation or damnation
It will stand forever
“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. …..But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
1 Peter 1:22-23, 25 KJV