What is Dispensationalism?

konroh · Nov 30, 2013

Here's an article on the effect replacement theology had in church history.

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H. Wayne House writes in his article, "The Church's Appropriation of Israel's Blessings" found in Israel: The Land and The People, that the concept of the church taking Israel's place in the prophecies of the Old Testament is largely found only after certain events took place in the early church. Namely, (1) after the Jewish people ceased to be the primary source from which the theology of the NT sprang. (This is particularly true after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.); (2) after those who had learned from the apostles had died and new problems faced the largely Gentile church, such as having to deal with the confusion between orthodox Jewish Christians and heretical Jewish-Christian sects; (3) after several non-Jewish Christian authors began to adopt the anti-Semitism of their pagan counterparts. (This began to happen after the Bar-Kokhba defeat in 135 A.D. when Christians and Greek communities were massacred by the Jewish followers of Simon bar-Kokhba); and (4) after the hermeneutics found in the NT was replaced by Greek allegorism. (Israel: The Land and The People, p. 79, also, 86, 87).

As the Christian Church grew and became more prominent through the centuries, this theological anti-Semitism festered. It was seen in the polemical sermons of many early church fathers like John Chrysostom and his Homilies Against the Jews and the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 decreeing that all Jews were to wear a distinguishing mark on their clothing. The anti-Semitism even took the form of art in the iconic image of Ecclesia and Synagaga in stained glass windows and statues. H. Wayne House explains,

At the entrance of some cathedrals in Europe, one may observe female statues that are the personifications of Ecclesia (the Church) and Synagoga (The Synagogue). One notices that Ecclesia wears a crown, holding her head in a triumphant pose. On the other hand, Synagoga -- her head bowed, having lost her crown, holding a broken staff, and wearing a blindfold -- stands defeated and rejected. These personifications symbolize the consensus of the church from the middle of the second century A.D. to the present day, with few exceptions. (House, "The Church's Appropriation of Israel's Blessings" in Israel: The Land and the People, p. 77)

FredsBibleTalk.com - Replacement Theology
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zone · Nov 30, 2013

BradC said:

Don't you pray that the people of Israel (the Jews) would be saved and for that to happen wouldn't God have to remove those barriers that He himself put in place and give them the light of salvation through the conviction of the Spirit to move them along unto that once and for all sacrifice? Just because they have been blinded does not mean that they can not be saved. We were blinded and walking in darkness as Gentiles until the light of the glorious gospel shined unto us. If you disagree, where is your gospel and who can be saved by it? God has concluded all in unbelief that he might have mercy on all. Do we agree on this or will you continue to lie against the truth and quote others falsely. Unclefester still believes in your deceitful practices, why don't you cyber him a nice piece of peach pie. After all he is a 'peachy' kind of guy that offers lots of lip service with no substance. Pray for Israel and the Jews and intercede on their behalf so that they may see and hear. They need the faith of the Son of God and to be turned unto God's righteousness. When Christ comes they will see him as he is and he will turn them from their unrighteousness through the mercy of God. That will be a great day to see the Lord God be faithful to what he has promised those who he has chosen as his elect. YHWH will do this and it will be witnessed by those in heaven and those on the earth. Praise God and lift your hands for the Lord is good to his people.

Hoffco · Dec 1, 2013

If anyone would like to see my source of my current events in the near East, : it is Songtime Usa John Debrine at one place /com. On Wed. 's broadcast He give events in Israel and If you go to "Prophecy today" by Jimmy DeYoung. He updates news in Israel. These are good Christian new programs. I don't agree with their shallow gospel but the current news is trust worthy. The A-mills need to get their heads out of the sand and acknowledge what God is doing right before our eyes. The Church is not a replacement for the nation of Israel. Just read your news papers. it is good to study history so we don't fall into the old traps of Satan and keep in mind, nothing surprises God ,it is His story, as ugly as it is. Christian Zionists have not killed one soul in this current near East conflict. Did you see the suicide bombers in Pakistan? they killed over 70 Catholics. Love to all Hoffco

BradC · Dec 1, 2013

zone said:

Why does the thought of the Jews being saved now or later turn your stomach so sour? Why does it put such a bad taste in your mouth? You have never liked the thought that God might have favor with the Jews over others who despise them as a people. The Jews have their own way of thinking in relationship to God but they will one day have to bow to him through Jesus Christ and we all know that, even John Hagee. It does not matter what you post about him or others or anything about dispensational truth, Israel is in unbelief and God will bring them to a place of repentance and those who are left when he comes again will be saved whether you want to believe that or not. It is not your promise made to them it is God's promise and you can live in unbelief of that promise but it will still come to past. All your efforts of accusing others are fruitless and will have no effort upon what God has purposed in himself to do for Israel, the nation and its people. They are a sinful people but God will be merciful to their unrighteousness and we should be thankful and not in opposition to that.

BradC · Dec 1, 2013

BradC said:

Zone, why does the thought of the Jews being saved now or later turn your stomach so sour? Why does it put such a bad taste in your mouth? You have never liked the thought that God might have favor with the Jews over others who despise them as a people. The Jews have their own way of thinking in relationship to God but they will one day have to bow to him through Jesus Christ and we all know that, even John Hagee. It does not matter what you post about him or others or anything about dispensational truth, Israel is in unbelief and God will bring them to a place of repentance and those who are left when he comes again will be saved whether you want to believe that or not. It is not your promise made to them it is God's promise and you can live in unbelief of that promise but it will still come to past. All your efforts of accusing others are fruitless and will have no effort upon what God has purposed in himself to do for Israel, the nation and its people. They are a sinful people but God will be merciful to their unrighteousness and we should be thankful and not in opposition to that.

unclefester · Dec 1, 2013

Justin Martyr on "the true spiritual Israel" [SUP][6][/SUP]

Jesus Christ ... is the new law, and the new covenant, and the expectation of those who out of every people wait for the good things of God. For the true spiritual Israel, and the descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircumcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ.

John Chrysostom on Galatians 6:15-16 [SUP][7][/SUP]

Observe the power of the Cross, to what a pitch it hath raised him! not only hath it put to death for him all mundane affairs, but hath set him far above the Old Dispensation. What can be comparable to this power? for the Cross hath persuaded him, who was willing to be slain and to slay others for the sake of circumcision, to leave it on a level with uncircumcision, and to seek for things strange and marvellous and above the heavens. This our rule of life he calls "a new creature," both on account of what is past, and of what is to come; of what is past, because our soul, which had grown old with the oldness of sin, hath been all at once renewed by baptism, as if it had been created again. Wherefore we require a new and heavenly rule of life. And of things to come, because both the heaven and the earth, and all the creation, shall with our bodies be translated into incorruption. Tell me not then, he says, of circumcision, which now availeth nothing; (for how shall it appear, when all things have undergone such a change?) but seek the new things of grace. For they who pursue these things shall enjoy peace and amity, and may properly be called by the name of "Israel." While they who hold contrary sentiments, although they be descended from him and bear his appellation, have yet fallen away from all these things, both the relationship and the name itself. But it is in their power to be true Israelites, who keep this rule, who desist from the old ways, and follow after grace.

Martin Luther on Galatians 6:16

Lectures on Galatians, 1519.[SUP][8][/SUP] "Walk" is the same verb that is used above (5:25). "Walk," that is, go, by this rule. By what rule? It is this rule, that they are new creatures in Christ, that they shine with the true righteousness and holiness which come from faith, and that they do not deceive themselves and others with the hypocritical righteousness and holiness which come from the Law. Upon the latter there will be wrath and tribulation, and upon the former will rest peace and mercy. Paul adds the words "upon the Israel of God." He distinguishes this Israel from the Israel after the flesh, just as in 1 Cor. 10:18 he speaks of those who are the Israel of the flesh, not the Israel of God. Therefore peace is upon Gentiles and Jews, provided that they go by the rule of faith and the Spirit.
Lectures on Galatians, 1535.[SUP][9][/SUP] "Upon the Israel of God." Here Paul attacks the false apostles and the Jews, who boasted about their fathers, their election, the Law, etc. (Rom. 9:4-5). It is as though he were saying: "The Israel of God are not the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel but those who, with Abraham the believer (3:9), believe in the promises of God now disclosed in Christ, whether they are Jews or Gentiles."

John Calvin on Galatians 6:16 [SUP][10][/SUP]

Upon the Israel of God. This is an indirect ridicule of the vain boasting of the false apostles, who vaunted of being the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. There are two classes who bear this name, a pretended Israel, which appears to be so in the sight of men, and the Israel of God. Circumcision was a disguise before men, but regeneration is a truth before God. In a word, he gives the appellation of the Israel of God to those whom he formerly denominated the children of Abraham by faith (Galatians 3:29), and thus includes all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one church.

William Hendriksen on Galatians 6:16 [SUP][11][/SUP]

Paul continues: 16. And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace (be) upon them and mercy, even upon the Israel of God. According to the preceding context, this rule is the one by which before God only this is of consequence, that a person places his complete trust in Christ crucified, and that, therefore, he regulates his life by this principle. This will mean that his life will be one of gratitude and Christian service out of love for his wonderful Savior. Upon those — all those and onlythose — who are governed by this rule peace and mercy are pronounced. Peace is the serenity of heart that is the portion of all those who have been justified by faith (Rom. 5:1). In the midst of the storms of life they are safe because they have found shelter in the cleft of the rock. In the day of wrath, wasteness, and desolation God "hides" all those who take refuge in him (Zeph. 1:2 ff.; 2:3; 3:12). See on 1:3. Hence, peace is spiritual wholeness and prosperity. Peace and mercy are inseparable. Had not the mercy of God been shown to his people they would not have enjoyed peace. God's mercy is his love directed toward sinners viewed in their wretchedness and need. See N.T.C. on Philippians, p. 142, for a list of over one hundred Old and New Testament passages in which this divine attribute is described.
So far the interpretation runs smoothly. A difficulty arises because of the last phrase of this verse. That last phrase is: "kai upon the Israel of God." Now, varying with the specific context in which this conjunction kai occurs, it can be rendered: and, and so, also, likewise, even, nevertheless, and yet, but, etc. Sometimes it is best left untranslated. Now when this conjunction is rendered and (as in A.V., A.R.V., N.E.B.), it yields this result, that after having pronounced God's blessing upon all those who place their trust exclusively in Christ Crucified, the apostle pronounces an additional blessing upon "the Israel of God," which is then interpreted to mean "the Jews," or "all such Jews as would in the future be converted to Christ," etc.
Now this interpretation tends to make Paul contradict his whole line of reasoning in this epistle. Over against the Judaizers' perversion of the gospel he has emphasized the fact that "the blessing of Abraham" now rests upon all those, and only those, "who are of faith" (3:9); that all those, and only those, "who belong to Christ" are "heirs according to the promise" (3:29). These are the very people who "walk by the Spirit" (5:16), and "are led by the Spirit" (5:18). Moreover, to make his meaning very clear, the apostle has even called special attention to the fact that God bestows his blessings on all true believers, regardless of nationality, race, social position, or sex: "There can be neither Jew nor Greek; there can be neither slave nor freeman; there can be no male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (3:28). By means of an allegory (4:21-31) he has re-emphasized this truth. And would he now, at the very close of the letter, undo all this by first of all pronouncing a blessing on "as many as" (or: "all") who walk by the rule of glorying in the cross, be they Jew or Gentile by birth, and then pronouncing a blessing upon those who do not (or: do not yet) walk by that rule? I refuse to accept that explanation. Appeals to the well-known "Eighteen petition prayer of the Jews," [SUP][12][/SUP] to the meaning of the word Israel in other New Testament passages, etc., cannot rescue this interpretation. As to the former, Gal. 6:16 must be interpreted in accordance with its own specific contextand in the light of the entire argument of this particular epistle. And as to the latter, it is very clear that in his epistles the apostle employs the term Israel in more than one sense. In fact, in the small compass of a single verse (Rom. 9:6) he uses it in two different senses. Each passage in which that term occurs must therefore be explained in the light of its context. Besides, Paul uses the term "the Israel of God" only in the present passage, nowhere else.
What, then, is the solution? In harmony with all of Paul's teaching in this epistle (and see aslo Eph. 2:14-22), and also in harmony with the broad, all-inclusive statement at the beginning of the present passage, where the apostle pronounces God's blessing of peace and mercy upon "as many as" shall walk by this rule, an object from which nothing can be subtracted and to which nothing can be added, it is my firm belief that those many translators and interpreters are right who have decided that kai, as here used, must be rendered even, or (with equal effect) must be left untranslated. Hence, what the apostle says is this: "And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace (be) upon them and mercy, even upon the Israel of God." Cf. Psalm 125:5. Upon all of God's true Israel, Jew or Gentile, all who truly glory in the cross, the blessing is pronounced.

O. Palmer Robertson on the Israel of God [SUP][13][/SUP]

The recognition of a distinctive people who are the recipients of God’s redemptive blessings and yet who have a separate existence apart from the church of Jesus Christ creates insuperable theological problems. Jesus Christ has only one body and only one bride, one people that he claims as his own, which is the true Israel of God. This one people is made up of Jews and Gentiles who believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah.

The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)

unclefester · Dec 1, 2013

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Joshua 21:45

Not one of all the Lord's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

BradC · Dec 1, 2013

unclefester said:

Is there no promise that came to Israel and its people after Joshua took them into the land of promise? You are missing much.

Hoffco · Dec 1, 2013

To BradC, God has always saved by GRACE,thru faith, unto works. I capped GRACE because: GRACE is the sourse of faith and works, both are GIFTS of GRACE. With this in mind I make a correction to your first post on this page: the two disp.s, you labeled "Law" and "Grace" , I would label, "Old Cov.,Mosaic" and "New Cov.,Jesus". The REASON: Law implies: no Grace. and Grace implies: no Law. We need to see God's eternal Covenant of Grace as over riding al the dispensations (Administrations of GRACE) The problem with all Reform theology is they take soteriology literally, But, then, take eschatology figurtively, bad heumetology LOL. ( I am bad in spelling, sorry.) And, sorry, I expect, all "goats to go to Hell, and all "Sheep" to go to Heaven. I think it was you who said,"we don't expect all goats to go to Hell, sorry if I am wrong. love to all, Hoffco ps Zone has a right to post as all of us have, We all need to be kind and mature in our comments, Please.

Hoffco · Dec 1, 2013

We need to keep in mind that Israel ,as a nation, has never received God's redeptive grace, only the "elect" in Israel and all other nations and tribes, will receive salvation. But, the Bible seems to say, that when Jesus comes back to earth, He will save "all of Israel". I think. at His return, Jesus will save All the Jews living at His return. Love to all, Hoffco

RuthHannah · Dec 1, 2013

Hoffco said:

Jesus is coming to deliver Israel as a nation yet not all Israel will be saved

zone · Dec 1, 2013

RuthHannah said:

He already came for them. some believed and were eternally saved, some didn't.

are you familiar with the Book of Daniel..at all?

70 weeks?

but i assume you have a big gap in that prophecy. 70 weeks were determined but not accomplished, type-thing?

something got postponed. the whole last 7 years halted? prophetic clock stopped?

could you show me where you hack the Most Holy and all He accomplished for Israel out of Daniel 9 and drag it around placing it into the future?

i need to understand how this happens to people's minds.

He's coming back for His bride - His church - jew and gentile. the Israel of God.

zone · Dec 1, 2013

anyone reading this chapter one time would know that's a lie.

Acts 2
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.b 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:

17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood,
before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,

“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’

29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’

36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

total lie.

the apostates and those who just rejected Jesus were cursed, but many believed on Him and were saved.

jews get saved, and have been getting saved for 2000 years.

He never promised everyone calling themselves Israel (Abraham for their father) would be saved.
ever.

zone · Dec 1, 2013

ALL ISRAEL GETTING SAVED AS CHRIST WALKED THE EARTH?

what does this say? who is He talking to?
where is He?
who did He come for?

John 10
I Am the Good Shepherd
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

19There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. 20Many of them said, “He has a demon, and is insane; why listen to him?” 21Others said, “These are not the words of one who is oppressed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

I and the Father Are One
22At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me,a is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

31The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

40He went away again across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing at first, and there he remained. 41And many came to him. And they said, “John did no sign, but everything that John said about this man was true.” 42And many believed in him there.

....

Luke 2
33And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him. 34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, "Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed-- 35and a sword will pierce even your own soul-- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."

see that?

the fall of many, and the rise of many.
many saved, many not.

was the plan to save ALL ISRAEL?
if so, Jesus clearly failed....even in His own day.

zone · Dec 1, 2013

John 10
25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. 26"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

who is He talking to?
saying not of His sheep? is He talking to gentiles there?

or some people of the nation of Israel?

27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

and here....did He say he had some sheep in Israel? didn't he say he came for the LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL?
that would know Him and follow Him?

did they?
did he fail?

or is this all future?

konroh · Dec 1, 2013

Gal. 6:15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—and to[SUP]b[/SUP] the Israel of God.

It makes perfect sense that Paul who was writing to Gentiles who were believers and Judaizers who were convincing them to live under law and not under grace, that he would conclude his letter by summing it all up. Whether circumcised (Judaizers and believing Jews) or uncircumcised (Galatian Gentile believers) what counts is the new creation, peace and mercy to all who follow this rule (Galatian Christians) and to the Israel of God (believing Jews as opposed to unbelieving Judaizers).

Hoffco · Dec 1, 2013

Wow. You reform people ,like Zone, are so hard to enlighten to the whole truth. You see the distinction between National Israel and Spiritual ,elect' Israel of God in the old Testament; But, We just can not get you to see the future of the National Israel in the prophecy of the old and the new testaments. I gave up years ago trying to teach my Reformed Baptists buddies this yrs. ago; I just had to separate from them. And now I tiring to convince a Lutheran these end time trues. I am sure glad I don't rub shoulders with you people every day, I would go bananas! I had such a wonderful time worshiping Jesus with our little flock here in Golden Hills Village yesterday. God bless you all. Hoffco

eternally-gratefull · Dec 1, 2013

Hoffco said:

This is not true. As a nation God offered Christ's redemptive grace to them first. They were not willing to receive it.

BradC · Dec 1, 2013

zone said:

Why don't you keep your word and go back to your own thread and post there. You made that promise, so why don't you keep it and allow others to post here without your input. You responded to a request that was made to you personally and you agreed with the request.

Hoffco · Dec 2, 2013

Zone., Please read Zechariah 12-14 God fights for Israel and destroys the nations of the world and the ones who are left will go to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles, and make sacrifices, 12:16-21. THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED YET> The LORD will stand on Mt. OF Olvies and it will split.The LORD shall be KING over all the earth. 14:4,9 Love to all, Hoffco

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