What Is The Christian Relationship to The Old Testament Covenant?

[just-me]

The Lord Jesus Christ established a New Way. Hence New Testament.

Who in the Old Testament ever taught this?;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

All of Jesus' teachings were of the Old Testament before His death. So Jesus is the one that taught this during the time of the Old Testament. Not until after His death, burial, and resurrection was the New Testament in effect. Again I mention what is written in the Bible. If you want to deny the scriptures purposefully, that is your business. I am saddened if you desire not to adhere to the truth.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Isaiah 55:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Exodus 34:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Psalm 21:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever and ever.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]His glory is great in thy salvation: honour and majesty hast thou laid upon him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For thou hast made him most blessed for ever: thou hast made him exceeding glad with thy countenance.

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Micah 5:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: (that includes the Old Testament) all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[Grandpa]

All of Jesus' teachings were of the Old Testament before His death. So Jesus is the one that taught this during the time of the Old Testament. Not until after His death, burial, and resurrection was the New Testament in effect. Again I mention what is written in the Bible. If you want to deny the scriptures purposefully, that is your business. I am saddened if you desire not to adhere to the truth.

That doesn't make any sense does it?

The Lord Jesus Christ's testament was only new after He died? Well that's not true at all. The Lord Jesus gives a New Way and He taught about this New Way in the Bible.

Its in the part labeled New Testament. That's because its new. Its different from the old.

The Life of the Lord Jesus Christ is His Testament. All of His Teachings Are New.

His resurrection and ascension is the power of this New Testament.

Matthew 5:21-22
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:27-28
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matthew 5:31-32
[SUP]31[/SUP]It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 5:33-34
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
[SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Matthew 5:38-39
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 5:43-44
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Hebrews 9:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's remember that David was the apple of God's eye.

david?

The murderer, the adulterer. The man who lived in adulterous afairs (according to the law) until the day he died?

You mean this man??

yes he was.. why? because he was such a keeper of the law?? (No, he failed miserably like the rest of us) but because his faith wads IN CHRIST. NOT THE LAW/.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I saw the stars this morning and walked around the driveway to get in my car. Seems that heaven and earth have not passed away yet.

Yep. But you forgot one thing.

"till all be fulfilled"

Christ fulfilled it all. As he said, "it is finished" Nothing else needs to be done.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Those born again will do those things.

Try it. You might see how much easier it is to do those things when you actually taste and feal Gods presence in your life. and KNOW of his faithfull love to all he calls his children. Who HE GAVE THE POWER AND RIGHT to be his children based on his sons work on the cross. Not based on our work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All of the teachings of Jesus were of the Old Testament before His death.

Not all. He also gave massive teaching of the new testament, which was his gift to the world..

 

[just-me]

That doesn't make any sense does it?

The Lord Jesus Christ's testament was only new after He died? Well that's not true at all. The Lord Jesus gives a New Way and He taught about this New Way in the Bible.

According to this verse it not only makes sense to me, by faith I take it as true. Sorry that you don't.
This verse clearly says that a testament has no strength until the testator dies. Why would you suppose a person notorizes a last will and testament? Is it not for the wealth of the estate to go to the people who are heirs of the Kingdom?

Romans 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Simple really.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to this verse it not only makes sense to me, by faith I take it as true. Sorry that you don't.
This verse clearly says that a testament has no strength until the testator dies. Why would you suppose a person notorizes a last will and testament? Is it not for the wealth of the estate to go to the people who are heirs of the Kingdom?

Romans 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Simple really.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

That does not in any way mean Jesus did not teach the NT. he taught it alot. It just did not become real until his death, then ALL he taught about the new was given life. and the apostles and prophets took this new message with them to the world.

 

[Wall]

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile strangers mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

 

[just-me]

That does not in any way mean Jesus did not teach the NT. he taught it alot. It just did not become real until his death, then ALL he taught about the new was given life. and the apostles and prophets took this new message with them to the world.

Jesus created the NT. His teachings were of the OT being the mediator between God and man. All mankind, not just those receiving salvation after His resurrection. I'm sure we can agree on that. God Bless you brother.

 

[crossnote]

I concede, I concede , we are justified by works, sanctified by works, our walk is by works, and we are glorified by works....


​HIS WORKS!!!

 

[crossnote]

As of this post 5 people have voted that the Christian is required to be obedient to the law of Moses (we're not even speaking Christ). I hope you realize that includes all 600+ commands and that breaking one you have broken all, and to attempt to keep one you are obligated to all. Wonder the warning by the Jewish Apostle to the Gentiles...

Galatians 1:6-8 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[RedTent]

How silly to be arguing these things! We are at the end of the age of the gentiles when God predicted that we would act like this in the name of being against Jews. We say it is Judaism and the age of the gentiles is bounded by the meaning the church of this age gives that word. It is defined as legalism and all Christ spoke of against the denomination of Pharisees. Included is much of God as He reveals Himself to us.

If all Christians would read only scripture, and read it as a book with only one God, one purpose, one message, there wouldn't be people who speak against law, or God principles, or that God's promises are not kept but the new covenant cancelled covenants, instead of advancing and the new way better than the old. God used such as Constantine who taught to hate Jews and throw out anything scripture or not, relating to them. Every church council for hundreds of years included some of these teachings and said they were from God. Jews have been murdered by the millions for being Jews.

Luke 21:24 [SUP]24 [/SUP]They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Romans 11:25 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,

We are told to watch for the end of this age. When the Jews return to the Holy Land is one sign. And when all humans can learn of the gospel for salvation will be another. The Jews are returning, and we have such communication that almost every human can learn of what Jesus offers.

We can also look to see the information available to us in our Christian churches. We became so separated by time from the people of the first books of scripture that we couldn't relate to how God was teaching. It was like if someone not of our culture read about jumping over the rainbow, burying the hatchet, to hold your horses. Through archeology men have now been able to decipher ancient writings so we can better understand the first five books of the bible. Many in the church are up in arms against this, but more and more the church is teaching God principles shown in these first books. It is another step in the process of the end of the gentile age.

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, sir SlaveOfChrist, you have quoted right according to Holy Scripture of the New Covenant but why you do not learn yourself to whom you are slave to, GHRIST has fulfilled them and gave us it's full meanings beginning from Matthew 5 to the book of Revelation, giving us the New Covenant order of GOD of Grace and Truth for and through CHRIST (The Author and finisher of our faith the New Covenant builder of GOD HIS FATHER first). Please stop your childishness and rather learn from the HOLY SPIRIT the anointing in us regarding HIS inspired to lame men as it is written Holy Scripture. We are not against you but you who must abide as it is written and learn by the revelations of GOD.

 

[Wall]

I concede, I concede , we are justified by works, sanctified by works, our walk is by works, and we are glorified by works....


​HIS WORKS!!!

Mark 7:6 (KJV)
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied........

 

[DragonSlayer]

The old covenant no longer exists. GOD only deals with humanity through the new covenant. He's not double-minded.

It's written : " And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." Revelation 11:19 ( KJV )

You're right to say the Lord is not double-minded as the lying and hypocrite modern-day pharisee is, for His Testament is One, and His Word is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. The earthy arch of covenant created by Moses in the desert was just made at the image of the celestial arch of covenant existing in the Lord's Temple. And this celestial arch is eternal, and His covenant is eternal... If you say His first covenant is not eternal then you make the Lord a liar...the second covenant is just the fulfillment of the first covenant...just as Jesus said : " Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. "
Matthew 5:17 ( KJV )

So that means the second covenant does not mean in any way to destroy the first covenant,
but the second covenant does mean to fulfill the first covenant just as Jesus did !
Like it or not !

 

[Grandpa]

According to this verse it not only makes sense to me, by faith I take it as true. Sorry that you don't.
This verse clearly says that a testament has no strength until the testator dies. Why would you suppose a person notorizes a last will and testament? Is it not for the wealth of the estate to go to the people who are heirs of the Kingdom?

Romans 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Simple really.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

It is simple.

Hebrews 9:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[crossnote]

Mark 7:6 (KJV)
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied........

Funny, Jesus was tallking to the Pharisees and Scribes v.5 (masters at the Law of Moses) when He called them hypocrites as I suppose your intention was to me?

 

[Wall]

It is simple.

Hebrews 9:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Yup. The new testament is all about the blood. Not the 10 commandments.

 

[just-me]

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

It is important not to deny these verses, because it will help all who accept them as to how the Christians are related to the OT. The NT was completed in full strength after the death of Christ Jesus, and not until that time. Our Savior's teachings before His death, are teachings during the time of the Old Testament.